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Goons, on the other hand, have significant direct influence over CIG, never mind the backers. For evidence, please refer to the entire calendar years 2015 and 2016.
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Jun 26, 2019 01:50
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I have vague memories of Chris mentioning in some 10 for the chairman (or whatever iteration of their dumb loving videos) that squadron went from being a tight, directed Wing Commander style experience to being something more open ended with a bunch of side missions and filler and stuff which is just lol for a game where you play the lowest ranking pilot on a military space
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Jun 26, 2019 01:51
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Beet Wagon posted:I have vague memories of Chris mentioning in some 10 for the chairman (or whatever iteration of their dumb loving videos) that squadron went from being a tight, directed Wing Commander style experience to being something more open ended with a bunch of side missions and filler and stuff which is just lol for a game where you play the lowest ranking pilot on a military space His idea for the game changed, sure. I'm sure it's still changing. Good thing he doesn't have to actually make anything, since he can't.
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Jun 26, 2019 01:53
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Scruffpuff posted:His idea for the game changed, sure. I'm sure it's still changing. Good thing he doesn't have to actually make anything, since he can't. Well yeah I mean that goes without saying.
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Jun 26, 2019 02:00
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Scruffpuff posted:That isn't how psychology works. It doesn't matter if "Derek" has "influence." You're attaching the verb to the wrong subject. Derek is a name they use to rally around and spite fund. Considering how many times that name has been uttered by the cultists, it's impossible to deny that they use it as a rallying cry. Derek himself doesn't even need to exist. That's probably true, but I doubt they really needed him. They're pretty thoroughly self-deluded, with or without a "boogeyman".
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Jun 26, 2019 03:11
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Trilobite posted:Going back to this, uh, precious individual for a moment -- is there a consensus on what drives this intense and incredibly detailed theorycrafting followed up by a series of questions? They are very, very serious about their theorycrafting. I still have no idea what drives it.
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Jun 26, 2019 03:21
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Rotten Red Rod posted:That's probably true, but I doubt they really needed him. They're pretty thoroughly self-deluded, with or without a "boogeyman". Tribalistic methodologies are a great way to engender return customers. But you have to ensure a tangible "other" is there to "reject". Publishers provided the framework, Goons provided the conspiracy, and Derek provided the "face". Then you, or your customer base, can construct a "boogeyman" that will do its job on its own. In a sense, the "other" just has to be a recognizable cheap Halloween costume to start working. Without at minimum the things above, the rejection of the "other" is too vague and too inconsistent for there to be a coherent message. And that message, no matter where it is, is "gently caress them, buy our stuff."
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Jun 26, 2019 04:21
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Amazing Zimmo posted:There were many lol's to be had during that meltdown 
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Jun 26, 2019 04:25
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Rotten Red Rod posted:That's probably true, but I doubt they really needed him. They're pretty thoroughly self-deluded, with or without a "boogeyman". I agree with that. I'm still blown away every single day what they're paying for, what they're overlooking, what they're forgiving, and for all that, what they're getting.
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Jun 26, 2019 04:32
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Elderbean posted:These are men in their 30s and 40s lmao. Here's one that was recently posted here https://www.scribd.com/document/395876766/Final-Exam
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Jun 26, 2019 05:05
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Jun 26, 2019 05:07
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I said come in! posted:He really has no influence at all. His blog posts were stolen from other sources and and he took credit for them. His influence during the JPG War (especially late 2015 through much of 2016) shouldn’t be completely discounted. He did have some inside sources, did have some original scoops, and absolutely disrupted the triumphalist narrative CIG enjoyed prior to his arrival. He forced Chris and Sandi’s marriage out into the open (rightly so) and was the first guy warning that Star Marine was deader that dead. (And but for Derek, Chris’s response to The Escapist wouldn’t have been half as wonderful to read. Because he doxxed Chris’s wife!) And I say all this as somebody who had a lot of long form writing, charts and stuff copied from here and pasted right on his blog. (I didn’t care about him doing that at all.) A couple of the leakers back then were active in the Discord and well placed in the company. I was skeptical when first I joined his Discord, but as a very early mod who saw a lot of what was disclosed, I wasn’t doubtful for long. There were whistleblowers then and they were talking. Chris and Sandi’s rage about Derek and Goons was a source of much ongoing chatter and interest throughout CIG & Foundry. I asked one directly back then whether the things Goons were doing were making things worse for anybody besides Chris and Sandi, and said, “if it is I don’t want to do it.” But it wasn’t. Quite the opposite we were told, and so we kept at it. Chris and Sandi had themselves to thank for galvanizing their opposition forces to join up. Goons weren’t ever going to be easy allies with Derek, but a lot of that early drama (e.g. The Sandi Monica bloodbath) pissed off Beer, Bootcha, Pgabz and a bunch more of us and lead to a lot of joint efforts - most of which were well received by the opposition folks inside CIG and Foundry and some of which gained traction elsewhere. (The bloodbath, we should recall, was caused by Derek publishing the Jennison letter, and later lead to stuff like notacult.avi, etc.)  PGabz was a non-stop destructive force with his video output back then, Bootcha was already going rogue but then dropped notacult.avi and really captured what had absurdly started to flourish in this weird Goon/Smart alliance. Memes and mockery of the BDSSE, of the Community, and the cult leadership of Chris and Sandi. I know later efforts like Donutgate and the Jeffrey MacArthur stuff got around and pissed the right people off, and Derek helped with that. He was also a huge force for refund efforts, too. He would both light his own flames and fan any others lit elsewhere, and with /DerekSmart there to meltdown with every tweet and utterance, it was a fine little cycle of rage and laughter. It’s also worth mentioning that Derek’s villainous persona rallied backers old and new into a confederacy of faithful defender spenders. He helped galvanize the fundraising and also steered the Polygons and Kotakus away from some really low hanging fruit like, oh, reporting on The Book of Loaf and crap like that. Chris should’ve sent him a thank you note: “Thanks for making Sandi, Ben and I look like victims and good guys. We really needed it!” On the prior point, I heard as much a year later from Kotaku UK - that the obnoxiousness of Derek’s warlording was keeping the gaming press the hell away from the story. It got bad enough during the run up to release for “Inside The Troubled Development of CIG” that Keza MacDonald was openly talking about ditching the story and just publishing Julian’s long form interview with Chris at Foundry. (Thank goodness she didn’t - it was the best thing to date on the topic.) Anyway, I’m not white knighting for Derek and lord knows we disagree about some things, sometimes pretty angrily, but he did have some real impact, for good and for ill. (Some of what began then continues today in other forms, most notably Bootcha’s deep dive series.) And whether you believe any of the above or not, it’s an absolute fact that the middle chapters of this never-ending story would have been far less hilarious had he not known shown up and tried to trogdor this godforsaken project. G0RF fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Jun 26, 2019 |
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Jun 26, 2019 06:42
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Amazing Zimmo posted:There were many lol's to be had during that meltdown , not .
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Jun 26, 2019 06:46
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Lord Stimperor posted:Even if Star citizen explodes spectacularly at some point, I fear that it will take it's biggest mystery with it: who is Mirificus? * a mysterious nippon-cat appears*  "Stimperor-san, it is possible i can help you. But you promise to end sickening empire first, yes?" "Sayonara" * a mysterious nippon-cat disappears*
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Jun 26, 2019 06:49
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G0RF posted:His influence during the JPG War (especially late 2015 through much of 2016) shouldn’t be completely discounted. He did have some inside sources, did have some original scoops, and absolutely disrupted the triumphalist narrative CIG enjoyed prior to his arrival. He forced Chris and Sandi’s marriage out into the open (rightly so) and was the first guy warning that Star Marine was deader that dead. (And but for Derek, Chris’s response to The Escapist wouldn’t have been half as wonderful to read. Because he doxxed Chris’s wife!) This is the Stimpire in which I belong.
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Jun 26, 2019 06:52
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Rotten Red Rod posted:That's probably true, but I doubt they really needed him. They're pretty thoroughly self-deluded, with or without a "boogeyman". Chris Roberts reply to the Escapist article was over half just riling on about Derek Smart in a bogeyman form ..... It was great - anyone have it handy?
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Jun 26, 2019 06:55
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EmesiS posted:This is the Stimpire in which I belong. The worst form of verbosity. Tripling every second.
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Jun 26, 2019 07:00
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I’m a former concierge backer. My shame is and inch deep but a mile wide.
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Jun 26, 2019 07:03
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The project is then destroyed and all remnants of it are removed, and any memories of it will be erased instantly from civil minds.
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Jun 26, 2019 07:14
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EmesiS posted:I’m a former concierge backer. My shame is and inch deep but a mile wide. Did you get a refund?
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Jun 26, 2019 07:20
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Kosumo posted:Chris Roberts reply to the Escapist article was over half just riling on about Derek Smart in a bogeyman form ..... It was great - anyone have it handy? Spacetoaster has your back. It’s the end all be all of “Nice Meltdowns”, and we have Derek to thank for it. As best I can tell, this was the chain of events that birthed it...
That was just one week’s worth of drama from back then. And there was more and it was worse. Derek, ultimately, deserves the credit and blame for much of the above. And he gets called out indirectly by Ben (see video) and directly by Chris (see letter.) And that was just the fallout from one blog post. For good or ill, that’s influence. G0RF fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Jun 26, 2019 |
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Jun 26, 2019 07:27
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reverend crabhands posted:MAybe it is this guy?? Shout out to Krispies!
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Jun 26, 2019 07:38
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Some of the comments on that video made me curious - SC fanboys keep going on about how amazing SQ42 is going to be. What do we actually KNOW about it? What is the mission structure? Is it more open world like Freelancer or Rebel Galaxy, or focused like Freespace? What is the main thrust of the plot? Do we know ANYTHING about the game besides the fact some celebrities are in it? What is the mission structure? AMAZING! Is it more open world like Freelancer or Rebel Galaxy, or focused like Freespace? It's gonna be the one you prefer the most. What is the main thrust of the plot? SQ42 has the best plot, believe me, it's gonna be way beyond whatever pandering poo poo Hollywood can come up with. Do we know ANYTHING about the game besides the fact some celebrities are in it? We have Superman, Star Wars guy, xfiles girl and old Game of Thrones guy, what more do you need?
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Jun 26, 2019 08:03
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Sarsapariller posted:They are very, very serious about their theorycrafting. I still have no idea what drives it. I think the root enabler of that theorycrafting (perhaps not the root cause itself) is the complete lack of awareness about the dire straits the project is really in. Many of these theoricrafter backers are simply seeing the 300+ millions coming in and do not even consider thinking there is any issue at all in the first place. For them it is just a matter of time that with all those millions steadily streaming in CIG can eventually develop basically anything they set out to. Kill that idyllic perception of financial assurance and the rest falls as a house of cards.
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Jun 26, 2019 08:09
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I think part of it is also a lack of understanding that video games are and always will be a digital house of mirrors. And never a living, breathing world.
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Jun 26, 2019 08:28
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that's what's so revolutionary about star citizen it will be
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Jun 26, 2019 09:07
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MedicineHut posted:I think the root enabler of that theorycrafting (perhaps not the root cause itself) is the complete lack of awareness about the dire straits the project is really in. Many of these theoricrafter backers are simply seeing the 300+ millions coming in and do not even consider thinking there is any issue at all in the first place. For them it is just a matter of time that with all those millions steadily streaming in CIG can eventually develop basically anything they set out to. It's this wired thing were people go, look they have millions they must know what they are doing. Only super organised, sucsefull people get left in charge of that kind of money. History is littered with a multitude of big projects that ambled fowards blowing millions due to poor planning, bad management and desk pounding over confidence. But if those Indies guys can make that coo gamel for X imagine how good SC will be with 300x !!! It's like If you have no clue on how good something is you use price as guide, this wine is expensive so it must be better than that cheap one. This one is cheaper so it must have lower quality. Yet if we put that analogy in star citizen terms, the outrageously expensive bottle is broken pile of shattered glass on the floor with an IOU for a label, Chris is off mansion in Italy trying find good grape growing ground to plant his world class seeds in that he is still yet to order. So we conclude it must be far better than cheaper bottle of nice wine that can be enjoyed right now.
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Jun 26, 2019 09:23
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It also helps that gamers are loving stupid. Look at the time for dollars argument for example, paying 60$ for terrible playing game that takes 100 hours to complete = GOOD GAME But 60$ for the most sublime gaming experience you will ever experience but it only lasts for 5 hours = BAD GAME
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Jun 26, 2019 09:54
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Bootcha posted:I think part of it is also a lack of understanding that video games are and always will be a digital house of mirrors. And never a living, breathing world. Computers are magic! It is a lovely thing, really. First, you have greedy and lazy publishers, which suitably explains why video games are all just fake - because true fidelity takes time, effort and a visionary genius. For whatever reason no other publisher or studio have had those three things before. Second, you have n+1 features listed (most of which are attached to particular ships), described in detail but with no real information on how all that stuff is going to be implemented in the game, but that's OK because CI have loads of money and 500+ people so they can get poo poo done. Third, you have supercool technical terminology like server meshing combined with the infinite power of cloud computing, so there is no limit to the amount of stuff that CI can put in the game. TL; DR: publishers are intentionally blocking living, breathing worlds, but the Cloud (Imperium) promises deliverance and endless fidelity.
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Jun 26, 2019 10:27
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G0RF posted:stuff Thank you for the interesting synopsis
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Jun 26, 2019 10:42
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Sandweed posted:What is the mission structure? Do you have any Mae Demming in it? Cos if you do, we know then that you only have the very best.
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Jun 26, 2019 11:35
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big nipples big life posted:And that he built these forums He built this forum. He built this forum on shitposting. Built this forum. He built this forum on shitposting. Whoa! That Facerig thing that some streamers are using could really do with a free Crobear DLC
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Jun 26, 2019 11:42
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Sandweed posted:It also helps that gamers are loving stupid. i don't need a mentally enriching cultural experience, i need to spend as much time as possible not thinking about my life
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Jun 26, 2019 11:46
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reverend crabhands posted:Thank you for the interesting synopsis I endorse this message. Reading back through some of the horror stories, the drama and the shitposting has been a very productive use of my time when I'm up against a deadline. Oddly, it's also reminded me of the time Codemasters rebooted the Operation Flashpoint franchise from under the noses of Bohemia Interactive. Some of the internet activity around that particular event is particularly reminiscent of the long, long descent into madness of Star Citizen, at least in the internet paper trail. Happy days.
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Jun 26, 2019 11:55
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Ghostlight posted:i don't need a mentally enriching cultural experience, i need to spend as much time as possible not thinking about my life There are good games for that to.
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Jun 26, 2019 11:58
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Kosumo posted:Do you have any Mae Demming in it? We are not disusing our Tickler in Black DLC expansion at this time
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Jun 26, 2019 11:59
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Kosumo posted:Chris Roberts reply to the Escapist article was over half just riling on about Derek Smart in a bogeyman form ..... It was great - anyone have it handy? https://archive.is/33W9O Ghostlight posted:that's what's so revolutionary about star citizen FTFY 
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Jun 26, 2019 12:02
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:If you're telling me that your pornhub username isn't "Beet meatWagon" then we are no longer friends. You need to have an account to upload videos. I found this out the hard way and then suffered the double embarrassment when my videos were rejected. Apparently they aren't interested in prawn movies.
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Jun 26, 2019 12:07
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I said come in! posted:He really has no influence at all. His blog posts were stolen from other sources and and he took credit for them. I can't speak to now, but he had considerable influence circa 2015, in addition to the stuff he was directly involved in, the really meaningful thing was the byproduct of his shenanigans, which was much more visible/vocal consideration of the state of the game. There's really no telling how many people (including me) were deterred from ever buying in because of it, in that instead of their first exposure to Star Citizen being CIG's marketing materials, it was some element of the drama (and mockery) I feel as though Derek deserves credit for making enough noise that people ended up learning the truth where otherwise they might not have, or not until later. I don't know how many backers Derek converted, but I think his efforts led to a meaningful number of people never becoming backers in the first place. (no, that doesn't make him any less crazy)
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Jun 26, 2019 12:07
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My main problem with Derek is when he tries to present himself as some kind of industry insider. He might sometimes spur some fun drama, but at the end of the day, he's a self-aggrandizing, narcissistic douche who can't help doxxing anyone he feels ever slighted him. So the second anyone talks about him in glowing terms it rubs me the wrong way. I don't like encouraging that kind of person - I've had too many bad experiences with them in my personal life.
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Jun 26, 2019 12:13
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