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So what's everyone's take on Tankers? I've been considering making a Tanker but it seems like there's a general idea that they fall off terribly in usefulness at max level/once IO sets let Brutes tank just as well while doing a lot more damage. Are Tankers still useful or should I just go Scrapper or Brute instead?
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Jun 25, 2019 22:14
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Harrow posted:So what's everyone's take on Tankers? Tankers are fun and good - ime they struggle waaay less with survivability on the way to 50 than brutes as both face pretty steep tanking expectations early and regardless of team composition and can still do enough damage of whatever flavor to meet your goals. No, you will not be as efficient a farmer at 50 as a brute, but really the yoke of expecting every build to grow up to be an optimized farmbot is something best cast off sooner rather than later. It is enough to be fun, you just need one farmer.
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Jun 25, 2019 22:51
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Harrow posted:So what's everyone's take on Tankers? Tanker may be the one class I never get to 50. However, they are king poo poo of immortal mountain. Just never play one solo.
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Jun 25, 2019 23:05
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Nonexistence posted:Tankers are fun and good - ime they struggle waaay less with survivability on the way to 50 than brutes as both face pretty steep tanking expectations early and regardless of team composition and can still do enough damage of whatever flavor to meet your goals. No, you will not be as efficient a farmer at 50 as a brute, but really the yoke of expecting every build to grow up to be an optimized farmbot is something best cast off sooner rather than later. It is enough to be fun, you just need one farmer. I already have a farmbrute anyway. I'm mostly just wondering whether a Tanker's ability to tank enemies and never die brings enough to a group to offset the lack of damage you'd be bringing if you were a Brute with the same power sets instead.
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Jun 25, 2019 23:11
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Harrow posted:I already have a farmbrute anyway. I'm mostly just wondering whether a Tanker's ability to tank enemies and never die brings enough to a group to offset the lack of damage you'd be bringing if you were a Brute with the same power sets instead. they can still do ok enough damage and bruising means you buff everyone else's damage a little bit, plus actually holding some drat aggro means full damage players are free to do even more damage
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Jun 25, 2019 23:19
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Harrow posted:So what's everyone's take on Tankers? I think they're fun enough in the sense that playing any AT is pretty fun. You get to be a walking, talking indestructible brick! ... that will slowly whittle away everything. It depends on your secondary set, but some of them feel the lessened damage more than others (ie, /Staff, which I will never do ever again.) For the most part, I think they do pretty well on either extreme end. For low level play, I think they work out better as their initial group role of "being a tank" better than Brutes will. And at the very high end, for being a tank in a Hami raid or incarnate trial, I think they do their work far more reliably since not every Brute is going to be necessarily equipped on their own to handle the poo poo that a Tanker can. The difference being, if you just buff the poo poo out of a Brute, well, yeah. They're sorta better in nearly every way, then, and the delta isn't so enormous as it probably ought to be. It's one of those ATs that I think could have used some evaluation near the end of the game's life to find itself more of a niche or some other kind of benefit that it could bring. But that's all kinda looking at it at the high end, and I think the average group is still gonna like that assurance of having a super sturdy and reliable tank. I know I definitely relax when I realize there are tanks in iTrials and my Brute gets to take it easy. 
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Jun 25, 2019 23:26
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Sufficient posted:Come join us and enjoy the ride only if you wear a condom Harrow posted:So what's everyone's take on Tankers? Harrow posted:I already have a farmbrute anyway. I'm mostly just wondering whether a Tanker's ability to tank enemies and never die brings enough to a group to offset the lack of damage you'd be bringing if you were a Brute with the same power sets instead. Tankers are really loving nice to have in a group, especially if you don't already have one, because the tanker can take an alpha without dying, which makes it much easier for the DPS to wipe out the whole pack at once
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Jun 26, 2019 00:44
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I love being a tank. seeing the teams brutes think they are the toughest thing in the world, to watch them fold and fall, when they rush ahead to stealth the objectives, and here comes my tank with the rest of the team following at my walking pace and i wipe the enemy group in my own time is an awesome feeling. get 2 tanks working in concert, and you will have the armored core of your team that will be the iron teeth pulling the mobs into the wood-chipper. get a bad tank that thinks they know everything and it slows you down. i love playing tanks. They are aggro management. get ahead of your team, piss off everything, and keep aggroing more and more into the rains and patches that melted that first group. then aggro more. no. more. more than that.
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Jun 26, 2019 00:45
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Tankers are really fun but not getting your level 8/9 powers until level 35/38 is possibly the worst part of the AT, since Defensives tend to have really forgettable or optional tier 8/9s
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Jun 26, 2019 01:23
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Take Capn Mako and Throw Sharks and Puke at them.
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Jun 26, 2019 01:29
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Re: Tanks It's not so much the Tank (AT) is awesome but the "Tank" role that needs to be on-point. Tankers (AT) are the best at it because they naturally aggro and can soak damage the rest of the team would get wiped 5x over with. But what a Tank (role) brings is a focal point: they start engagements and create order. Again, Tankers (AT) do this better than any other AT out there out-of-the-box. Brutes can do it but they only have single-target punchvoke and a few of the punchy ATs can fill-in when all else fails but none are going to hold a candle to a pure Tank built to take damage and gulp down aggro. Case-in-point: I play a perma-Light Form PB (85% resist to all but Psi, ~30% defense in melee) and got on a pub group running Portal missions. The Brute in the group tried to act as the "tank" but was completely random with aggro-ing groups and went too fast from group-to-group. He ended up drawing multiple crowds and couldn't keep them off the squishies. After two near-team wipes, he quit. So I end up tanking and because I know what I can do and wouldn't you know it was addition through subtraction. We breezed through the rest of the missions. It's not just the AT, it's also the playstyle and knowing your limits. My PB can't draw aggro like a Brute or Tank (I do have Provoke) but hell if I can't out-tank a mediocre Brute that doesn't have a clue of the tank role.
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Jun 26, 2019 01:30
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winterwerefox posted:I love being a tank. seeing the teams brutes think they are the toughest thing in the world, to watch them fold and fall, when they rush ahead to stealth the objectives, and here comes my tank with the rest of the team following at my walking pace and i wipe the enemy group in my own time is an awesome feeling. get 2 tanks working in concert, and you will have the armored core of your team that will be the iron teeth pulling the mobs into the wood-chipper. get a bad tank that thinks they know everything and it slows you down. i love playing tanks. They are aggro management. get ahead of your team, piss off everything, and keep aggroing more and more into the rains and patches that melted that first group. then aggro more. no. more. more than that. CoH tankers are great. First because you can almost always get a group, which alleviates their biggest problem of low DPS. Second, you can build yourself to be almost goddamn unkillable, which lets your team kill tougher poo poo. And third, you don't have to do poo poo in a group besides keep aggro, and most of them have auras that most of that heavy lifting. Your job is to not die, you have tons of blasters and corruptors and stalkers and brutes to do the killing. Not that you can't build a high DPS tanker, but even then you'll NEVER compete with a well built DPS. So if you stop worrying about that, and focus on staying alive and keeping your teammates alive, you can just jump in, toss some AOEs, taunt anything shooting towards your defenders and then take a drink of your beer no problem.
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Jun 26, 2019 01:32
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Merilan posted:Tankers are really fun but not getting your level 8/9 powers until level 35/38 is possibly the worst part of the AT, since Defensives tend to have really forgettable or optional tier 8/9s "Oh there are a million Super Shockers huh? Boy that sure is inconvenient for anyone without Power Sink." Even as I'm jealous of murder train elec/elec brutes who get Lightning Rod long before I do/Keep it while exemplared in more content. Which isn't even considering how fast they kill poo poo overall. City is also thankfully a game where "Is a Tank" is usually all you need to be a clueless idiot leading endgame content. So far as how well it worked out for my Elec/Elec tank in live who took eyebeams because eyebeams are cool damnit. It's a lot easier to deal with being jealous of optimized freight trains when the baseline is also a good time. The natural aggro means I can also watch a real go getter brute start the party on the next ITF mob, and then trundle on in and soak up the attention now that all the enemies have their poo poo together and they get to enjoy swinging their huge sword around without a minotaur and cyclops tag teaming them. Buddy system OP. But I doubt I'd have the confidence to gleefully get punched in the fact as a level 38 guy in an ITF full of handsome high level set bonus gods if I were a bargain bin generic IO brute
Section Z fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jun 26, 2019 |
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Jun 26, 2019 01:45
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Energy melee sucks, right? Can it not suck?
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Jun 26, 2019 03:31
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hup posted:Energy melee sucks, right? Can it not suck? I got a lvl 50 Energy Tanker. The Disorient effect has a pretty high chance to proc which makes it easy to lock down groups soloing, and with Build Up on Auto with some Set Recharge IOs, you can bust out really high single target damage with Energy Transfer + Total Focus. The lack of AoE abilities makes it hard to put out competitive damage when playing alongside sets like Titan Weapons. The main draw of Energy Melee is the SFX. Choom. Choom choom.
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Jun 26, 2019 04:29
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hup posted:Energy melee sucks, right? Can it not suck? iirc it used to be great (like Regen) and got the Regen treatment (like Regen.) I'm sure at some level it's serviceable but I don't think there's too many upsides I'd recommend it for.
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Jun 26, 2019 04:50
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I could easily be wrong but I feel like the only major change Energy Melee ever had was to give Energy Transfer an actual animation time and not a 0.1 second insta-punch. If that was enough to permanently ruin the set then it wasn't actually ever a good set, it just had one badly designed power holding it up. Really the main thing with Energy Melee is that it's an inevitable victim of power creep and said bad design. It's like one of the launchiest launch-era sets you could possibly play. Its entire gimmick was "a Tanker set that does kinda decent damage, also stuns". It's even more generic than the ultimate generic Tanker melee set, Super Strength. I think it's still perfectly fine, though. The stun procs are weirdly underrated for whatever reason, and as said the set looks and sounds good. And maybe it's because I'm playing kind of the polar opposite, a Spines Brute, but I feel like I've been ending up on more than a few teams that just can't deal with hardened single targets terribly well. Some of that might just be poorly-considered difficulty settings and bad teamplay though. Edit: Another way of looking at it is that they often got lazy and just ported sets wholesale between ATs and let modifiers sort them out. This was a terrible idea, because a lot of sets were fundamentally designed around their source AT so you end up with dumb stuff like Corruptors using the lovely Defender versions of Dark and Rad Blast right next to regular ole Fire Blast and such. The niche that Energy Melee arguably filled for Tankers never existed for Brutes; with modern design sensibilities you would at least toss in some kind of extra bonus. Even if it was just something basic like a cone effect on Bonesmasher. Or just totally revamp the set because it's so barebones (and probably add yet another stacking buff mechanic in the process). John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Jun 26, 2019 |
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Jun 26, 2019 05:45
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Abroham Lincoln posted:It's one of those ATs that I think could have used some evaluation near the end of the game's life to find itself more of a niche or some other kind of benefit that it could bring. But that's all kinda looking at it at the high end, and I think the average group is still gonna like that assurance of having a super sturdy and reliable tank. I know I definitely relax when I realize there are tanks in iTrials and my Brute gets to take it easy. The higher base resist (if you're a resist tank) also means you've got less distance until buffs and sets kick you up to the cap, and poo poo starts getting ridiculous as you approach that. And not to discourage you from taking and using all the fun attack powers or anything, but if your team is running into trouble because the tank isn't dealing enough damage, that team might have other problems.
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Jun 26, 2019 07:03
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The impressions I have gotten as to why Energy Melee is kind of crap are as follows: 1: The only AOE it has is Whirling Hands, and it does not do enough damage to justify its ~2.5 second cast and 14 second recharge. 2: Its big hits of Total Focus and Energy Transfer also have glacial animations and recharges, and again, not enough damage to justify how long they take. 3: Its "special trick" power is a single target lieutenant-grade stun with a slow animation, and its recharge is way longer than its duration, so you can't even try to stack it on a boss. 4: Barrage, Energy Punch, and Bone Smasher are not nearly good enough to make up for the above three deficiencies.
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Jun 26, 2019 07:06
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FWIW I regularly bang the drum on the Homecoming servers demanding buffs to Energy Melee. Even just giving it direct number buffs would be enough to get the set seeing regular play as an ST specialist, and my dream is for Whirling Hands to be more than just a pile of poo poo.
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Jun 26, 2019 09:05
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It's kind of a shame because energy melee by and large has some good looking abilities and great sfx. If only the numbers matched up.
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Jun 26, 2019 14:40
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It's me. I'm the one who had a Stone/Energy Tanker on Live. He made it to 35 before the game was killed.
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Jun 26, 2019 15:27
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DangerDan posted:FWIW I regularly bang the drum on the Homecoming servers demanding buffs to Energy Melee. Even just giving it direct number buffs would be enough to get the set seeing regular play as an ST specialist, and my dream is for Whirling Hands to be more than just a pile of poo poo. I'm doing the same but for Dual Pistols. Here's hoping these cool as hell sets get some buffs so they can be both cool and good.
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Jun 26, 2019 15:58
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buff kinetic melee pay no attention to the stalker behind the curtain
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Jun 26, 2019 16:25
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Merilan posted:I vaguely remember in my childhood there was one of those punching bag arcade cabinets for Sonic Blastman, and one of the features on it was that it had a camera that could take a picture of you/your friend's face and you could punch it and it'd bloat the face lol It's called "Real Puncher" and it was the sequel to Sonic Blastman.
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Jun 26, 2019 16:32
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Harrow posted:I'm doing the same but for Dual Pistols. Dual Pistols is perfectly balanced if you take into account how awesome the animations are.
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Jun 26, 2019 16:49
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khy posted:It's called "Real Puncher" and it was the sequel to Sonic Blastman. Excuse me but it is Sonic Blast Man. Or are you not a true gamer?!?!?!
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Jun 26, 2019 17:14
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Harrow posted:I'm doing the same but for Dual Pistols. also hear me out Dual Pistol Stalker where it's all just emptying your guns into people point blank+pistol whipping. Executioner's Shot would be the Assassin's Strike it would be cool as gently caress
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Jun 26, 2019 17:50
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Kheldarn posted:It's me. I'm the one who had a Stone/Energy Tanker on Live. He made it to 35 before the game was killed. My main from launch was a fire/energy tank, mostly because I wanted to deal a variety of damage types. She ran up the Incarnate ladder and led iTrials. I made her fire/elec on Homecoming mostly because I was curious about a melee set I never tried, and wow. Electric and kinetic melee just kind of carved up energy melee between them, really, like willpower and bio did to regen.
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Jun 26, 2019 18:13
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I AM THE MOON posted:also hear me out Dual Pistol Stalker where it's all just emptying your guns into people point blank+pistol whipping. Executioner's Shot would be the Assassin's Strike it would be cool as gently caress Motion for the one ranged attack to be throwing the gun like a boomerang.
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Jun 26, 2019 18:20
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I AM THE MOON posted:also hear me out Dual Pistol Stalker where it's all just emptying your guns into people point blank+pistol whipping. Executioner's Shot would be the Assassin's Strike it would be cool as gently caress gently caress yeah, I'd roll one of those immediately given the option
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Jun 26, 2019 18:22
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Harrow posted:gently caress yeah, I'd roll one of those immediately given the option imagine breaking Hide like  
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Jun 26, 2019 18:25
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I AM THE MOON posted:imagine breaking Hide like Exactly where my mind went as well.
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Jun 26, 2019 18:51
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A gun stalker could just be a shotgun powerset. By videogame logic, melee range is all you get from shotguns, anyway. The one ranged power could be "This Is What Shotguns Actually Do."
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Jun 26, 2019 20:13
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HPanda posted:A gun stalker could just be a shotgun powerset. By videogame logic, melee range is all you get from shotguns, anyway. The one ranged power could be "This Is What Shotguns Actually Do." Sounds good to me!
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Jun 26, 2019 20:19
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there seems like a whole lot of cool powersets that could be made just using other set animations and mixing and matching where is my tiki summoning you cowards
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Jun 26, 2019 20:32
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I AM THE MOON posted:also hear me out Dual Pistol Stalker where it's all just emptying your guns into people point blank+pistol whipping. Executioner's Shot would be the Assassin's Strike it would be cool as gently caress We're finally free of the old devs and their "GUNS CAN'T BE SHORT RANGE" weird poo poo and all their other bizarre design biases, so may as well go even further. Titan Weapons Stalkers? gently caress, why not. Super Strength on Scrappers? Just nerf Rage! Energy Melee as a good powerset? We have the technology!
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Jun 26, 2019 20:38
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Loving this dead game.
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Jun 26, 2019 21:06
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I AM THE MOON posted:imagine breaking Hide like Why I rolled DP/Ninja
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Jun 27, 2019 01:10
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I made an imgur album of all of the Incarnate Lore pets in case people want to know what they look like before crafting them. (These are all T4, but the earlier tiers use the same models, so long as you know what the name of the NPC is.)
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Jun 27, 2019 01:45
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