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Tankakern posted:hm i don't get what you're trying to say. the point of the link i posted was showing that someone is making an xfce window manager on wayland you implied xfce had no future without wayland to the extent xfce has a future, x11 will be the main thrust
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Jun 29, 2019 06:35
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that reminds me, has anyone posted this yet? On the Road to Fedora Workstation 31quote:...Once we are done with this we expect X.org to go into hard maintenance mode fairly quickly. The reality is that X.org is basically maintained by us and thus once we stop paying attention to it there is unlikely to be any major new releases coming out and there might even be some bitrot setting in over time. We will keep an eye on it as we will want to ensure X.org stays supportable until the end of the RHEL8 lifecycle at a minimum, but let this be a friendly notice for everyone who rely the work we do maintaining the Linux graphics stack, get onto Wayland, that is where the future is.
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Jun 29, 2019 10:02
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another thing that is posted right after that quote are the progress of pipewire. annoys me to no end that thing - granted, we need that component for desktop sharing and video sharing, but why can't anyone tell me why it needs to replace jack and pulseaudio? why not integrate it as a plugin or something? it's gonna be like that pulseaudio and ubuntu situation all over again if they force their users to jump ship from pulseaudio. there's been _a lot_ of work getting that sound server to work with all the hosed up bluetooth setups and latency issues and recoding issues and whatnot, and now they're just planning to throw all of that out and start anew? that's the gist i'm getting from it.. smells of cadt the whole project
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Jun 29, 2019 10:04
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Tankakern posted:they're just planning to throw all of that out and start anew open_source.txt
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Jun 29, 2019 14:45
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Tankakern posted:another thing that is posted right after that quote are the progress of pipewire. annoys me to no end that thing - granted, we need that component for desktop sharing and video sharing, but why can't anyone tell me why it needs to replace jack and pulseaudio? why not integrate it as a plugin or something? it's gonna be like that pulseaudio and ubuntu situation all over again if they force their users to jump ship from pulseaudio. jack and pulse don't really coexist since they end up fighting over alsa and pulse isn't suitable for low-latency uses pipewire is designed to be coreaudio-like with dynamically adjustable latency depending on the lowest current request. they already have shims for pulseaudio, jack and alsa so legacy apps should just work, probably better since a legacy app that tries to open an alsa device directly won't end up blocking everything else the windows audio system benefited hugely from them throwing out and rewriting everything after xp, so there's nothing wrong with throwing everything out and rewriting things when warrented
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Jun 29, 2019 15:56
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but pulseaudio solves lots of hard problems now, it's been refined for years. there's a lot that needs to be reimplemented to supplant everything pulseaudio does. i really don't think its replacement is warranted what i see happening anyway is that the status quo for years to come is that both runs as a daemon by themselves indefinately, even if everything pipewire does could be solved by having it as one .so file in /usr/lib64/pulse-1.x/modules/
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Jun 29, 2019 16:14
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is jack worth the headache of setting up? I usually just use pulse.. mostly because if I’m using a DE it’s probably gnome and that has pulseaudio auto installed so it seems like a pita to setup the pulse -> jack bridge
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Jun 29, 2019 17:53
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lol at pulseaudio being the legacy thing that people think works just fine and thus must be rewritten from the ground up to satiate the cadt
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Jun 29, 2019 17:56
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Tankakern posted:that reminds me, has anyone posted this yet? On the Road to Fedora Workstation 31 redhat thinks that if they stop funding x.org, X11 will just magically get replaced by wayland that seems unlikely
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Jun 29, 2019 20:20
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Vomik posted:is jack worth the headache of setting up? I usually just use pulse.. mostly because if I’m using a DE it’s probably gnome and that has pulseaudio auto installed so it seems like a pita to setup the pulse -> jack bridge jackd is useful if you need low latency or you're interested in writing plugins it basically competes with like, vst on windows
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Jun 29, 2019 20:20
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Soricidus posted:lol at pulseaudio being the legacy thing that people think works just fine and thus must be rewritten from the ground up to satiate the cadt People will scream "it's broken by design, replace it with a ground-up rewrite" up until we replace it and then "cadt!!!"
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Jun 30, 2019 07:21
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The alternative to cadt is often to end up with Windows 9x.
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Jun 30, 2019 08:11
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Suspicious Dish posted:People will scream "it's broken by design, replace it with a ground-up rewrite" up until we replace it and then "cadt!!!" it’s only cast when the replacement isn’t backwards compatible with existing applications or if it removes features
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Jun 30, 2019 08:24
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Good thing neither of those are the case I guess? It still uses pulse under the hood.
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Jun 30, 2019 08:28
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yeah but every blog post ever written about pipewire states that the goal is to replace pulse and jack, without really explaining why that is necessary
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Jun 30, 2019 08:30
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while I get the gist from the context, I'm gonna assume cadt is short for Carry A Dog Toy
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Jun 30, 2019 08:34
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https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html
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Jun 30, 2019 09:10
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i dont want to use wayland damnit
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Jun 30, 2019 14:04
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wayland might actually have a chance if somebody finishes this "waypipe" thing https://mstoeckl.com/notes/gsoc/blog.html
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Jun 30, 2019 17:08
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:wayland might actually have a chance a chance at...?
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Jun 30, 2019 19:27
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Fiedler posted:a chance at...? 
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Jun 30, 2019 19:52
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i installed a linux because i have unlimited time to troubleshoot bullshit issues now and it just works. i’m flummoxed and disappointed to say the least. i saw a few posts up that they’re working on breaking sound and X11, so that’s kind of a relief.
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Jul 1, 2019 00:30
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Laslow posted:i installed a linux because i have unlimited time to troubleshoot bullshit issues now and it just works. i’m flummoxed and disappointed to say the least. This was basically my two most recent experiences installing Linux. They even properly detected my laptop screen resolution. I didn't even have to edit a single config file ffs. Truly disappointing.
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Jul 1, 2019 00:46
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and both my nvidia vga cards are properly switching power states, it’s infuriating.
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Jul 1, 2019 01:12
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jesus christ there are some bad avs in this thread
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Jul 1, 2019 01:21
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well we're talking about linux - of course it looks bad
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Jul 1, 2019 03:00
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I can't tell if I'm the masochist that I liked troubleshooting my wayland gnome extension issue earlier today or if I'm the sadist that I liked my desktop stepping out of line so I could brutally peel bits one at a time back until it did exactly what I told it to do Heh crazy life being a linux user
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Jul 1, 2019 03:14
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Corla Plankun posted:jesus christ there are some bad avs in this thread avs off for faster poo poo posting
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Jul 1, 2019 03:58
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Fiedler posted:a chance at...? a chance at supplanting x11 and avoiding the graveyard of whizz-bang graphics demos that didn’t replace x11
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Jul 1, 2019 05:34
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Corla Plankun posted:jesus christ there are some bad avs in this thread 
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Jul 1, 2019 05:56
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eyh suspicious dish you made phoronix Another Attempt At Reducing GNOME's Mutter Input Latency maybe larabel lurks these forums
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Jul 1, 2019 14:39
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I recently gave up on GNOME and switched to sway. Fortunately I was able to make it behave like the mid-2000s window manager I used as a teenager.
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Jul 1, 2019 14:47
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Athas posted:I recently gave up on GNOME and switched to sway. Fortunately I was able to make it behave like the mid-2000s window manager I used as a teenager. your summary is unfair he wanted one tiling window manager to have keybindings similar to another tiling window manager, which seems pretty achievable
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Jul 1, 2019 15:18
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Tankakern posted:eyh suspicious dish you made phoronix No I didn't. I am not Daniel.
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Jul 1, 2019 15:32
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Why use sway over i3?
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Jul 1, 2019 15:33
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:your summary is unfair That's athas's blog. You just told the author their own summary is wrong holy poo poo lmao
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Jul 1, 2019 15:34
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Peak nbsd
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Jul 1, 2019 15:34
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Suspicious Dish posted:That's athas's blog. You just told the author their own summary is wrong holy poo poo lmao i said it was unfair, not that it's wrong
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Jul 1, 2019 15:35
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the summary did rather sound like he tried to snark on his own blogpost yeah 
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Jul 1, 2019 15:35
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The Xkdc Larper posted:Why use sway over i3? wayland
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