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Great premiere. Has me pumped for the show again. Anyone else recognize Switch as Lauren from Terrace House Aloha State? Just me?
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Jul 1, 2019 02:01
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they finally let bill irwin do a literal clown routine and i am here for it e: and an extended mime scene lmao eke out fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 03:43
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Bill Irwin was so, so good tonight. That was Vince Guaraldi's version of O Tannenbaum wasn't it? Interesting choice considering the other Charlie Brown song earlier in the episode.
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Jul 2, 2019 04:18
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Will I enjoy the season/show when it is over? I have no idea. Did I enjoy that? gently caress yeah I did.
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Jul 2, 2019 04:42
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Well that was quite a mindfuck. the only thing that didn't sit well with me was that inexplicably a critical team member was left alone in an unguarded car, which can be forgiven due to the nature of this show but I hope plot convenience won't become a recurring thing this season.
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Jul 2, 2019 12:42
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I don't know how Aubrey Plaza can go so long without blinking. I thought maybe they had edited it but I finally saw it happen.
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Jul 2, 2019 12:50
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Aubrey Plaza was artificially created to frighten humanity into submission. Submission to whom? your guess is as good as mine.
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Jul 2, 2019 13:03
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what was with aubrey having different voice in the mad hatter scene. is she perhaps still farouk planning to hop back in time to defeat xavier/legion? and how did she alone escape the net
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Jul 2, 2019 14:03
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Dark Off posted:what was with aubrey having different voice in the mad hatter scene. I attributed the first one to her small ability to gently caress with people's head. That whole scene after they picked up the alchemist was super surreal and could be attributed to the psychoactive drugs or Lenny's ability to play with reality? She escaped the net because she was never around. She ran off and left the Manson family as the honey pot. It all seemed to be planned in advance. Whether she's being controlled by Farouk remains to be seen I reckon.
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Jul 2, 2019 14:34
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"Ostensibly, on Legion..." Only took me a second to recognize that first song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7tLpmfj53g Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 18:28
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Ive been working under the assumption that David has somehow invested Lenny with a portion of his power.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:43
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Man this was great, Irwin rocked this whole episode
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Jul 2, 2019 23:31
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Daddy Mac, will, in fact, make ya “jump”.
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Jul 3, 2019 01:02
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I'm not sure Lenny is on David's side for anything other than the power it gives her. She straight up said that she was his #2, and no one better gently caress with that. I looked into the thread and wondering what people were talking about with Bill Irwin doing a clown routine and was wondering what you meant, then I saw it. That was fantastic. Also great scene of him and Kerri mirroring each other. Have I mentioned how much I love Amber Midthunder? I do with we could see her kicking rear end more often though. So, this show is expensive right? Like the sets are all amazing and intricate and would have to take a lot of work to build them
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Jul 3, 2019 03:23
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twistedmentat posted:I looked into the thread and wondering what people were talking about with Bill Irwin doing a clown routine and was wondering what you meant, then I saw it. That was fantastic. Also great scene of him and Kerri mirroring each other. Have I mentioned how much I love Amber Midthunder? I do with we could see her kicking rear end more often though. they're both so amazing in this show and i hope midthunder especially (since Irwin is pushing 70 and i don't think he has trouble doing what he wants to do at this point) gets a lot more work after this role, she's fantastic
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Jul 3, 2019 03:27
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Kind of feel like they might have blown their load a little early with the giant shepherd's crook and the net. Not sure what cartoonish instrument they could muster to capture David that would be a step up.
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Jul 3, 2019 03:50
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The blatant Alice in Wonderland stuff all feels a little hackneyed and kind of detracts from the show's unique feel. Hopefully we don't get more trite Mad Hatter etc. references, the Legion aesthetic is strong enough to manage without them. Otherwise I'm thoroughly enjoying everything.
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Jul 3, 2019 04:49
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I'm feeling a bit iffy on this second episode. I don't like watching the show as much when all the characters are bad people. I liked the introduction of Switch in the premiere because she's a fresh innocent, but the second episode didn't feature her as much so we're back to characters manipulating one another. I just want to feel like I'm on at least one person's side instead of feeling gross when David or Farouk brainwashes someone.
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Jul 3, 2019 05:46
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JazzFlight posted:I'm feeling a bit iffy on this second episode. I don't like watching the show as much when all the characters are bad people. I liked the introduction of Switch in the premiere because she's a fresh innocent, but the second episode didn't feature her as much so we're back to characters manipulating one another. I just want to feel like I'm on at least one person's side instead of feeling gross when David or Farouk brainwashes someone. How are all the characters bad people? Cary is a goddamn treasure. I enjoyed the second episode but not as much as the first, there was a lot of setup. I'm interested to see where Lenny's path leads. I would like to see another scene between the various Davids like the one in last season.
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Jul 3, 2019 05:55
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Cary is the real protagonist.
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Jul 3, 2019 06:22
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Kerry, Cary, and Switch are the only pure characters on the show. Everyone else alternates between sympathetic and vile. It's still hilarious that they're letting the Shadow King strut around after all the terrible poo poo he's done but want to straight up murder David.
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Jul 3, 2019 06:36
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Every move the Shadow King made seems carefully calculated to increase his power or to decrease David's self restraint, and now he might be given the keys to her psyche?! I'm sure this will go smoothly and without any casualties.
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Jul 3, 2019 06:48
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Codependent Poster posted:Kerry, Cary, and Switch are the only pure characters on the show. Everyone else alternates between sympathetic and vile. As far as I can tell, Lenny is literally the only person who isn't possibly under someone else's influence which itself is also probably wrong because she has David's sister haunting her and was created by Farouk. Honestly all of this would be great for like a 2 or 3 episode stint but an entire season of nobody acting of their own volition means I'm enjoying this show as an art piece and not as a TV show trying to convey a story.
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Jul 3, 2019 07:05
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Vernacular posted:The blatant Alice in Wonderland stuff all feels a little hackneyed and kind of detracts from the show's unique feel. Hopefully we don't get more trite Mad Hatter etc. references, the Legion aesthetic is strong enough to manage without them. Yea, I hope that's the only time we see it. I've said many times, mostly in Batman related threads where the Mad Hatter is featured, that making Alice In Wonderland referances, either subtle or blatant, when things get weird is really hackneyed and lazy writing.
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Jul 3, 2019 07:49
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I don't think anyone in Division 3 is currently being mindcontrolled by Farouk. If they were they wouldn't do stuff like blatantly ignore his warnings about Switch or talk back to him and refuse his ideas like Syd did. They all seem to be acting under their own volition so far.
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Jul 3, 2019 08:16
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Faruk is far too smart to poo poo where he eats so to speak, Division 3 are a few steps behind when it comes to Psy-war, but they have enough people to balance it out. Also Cary worked on their tech for a while, they should be much better equipped than in season 1.
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Jul 3, 2019 08:41
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A well-developed aspect of Farouk’s character is that he enjoys the gamesmanship and artistry surrounding the use of his powers. E.g his “what’s the fun in that?” remark. Despite having poisoned David for most of his life, there is still some reason to buy that he wouldn’t always just deus ex machina his way through his social interactions, unlike David honestly, for whom -not- mind controlling people is beginning to look like the exception rather than the rule.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:01
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Vernacular posted:A well-developed aspect of Farouk’s character is that he enjoys the gamesmanship and artistry surrounding the use of his powers. E.g his “what’s the fun in that?” remark. Nephthys posted:I don't think anyone in Division 3 is currently being mindcontrolled by Farouk. If they were they wouldn't do stuff like blatantly ignore his warnings about Switch or talk back to him and refuse his ideas like Syd did. They all seem to be acting under their own volition so far. The two times they managed to kill David, Farouk wasn't even necessary to have around. That sorta already proves how pointless it is to let him be as free as they have.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:13
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One of the things that make faruk a global menace is just how personally charming and unassuming he can be. He has been working people and insinuating himself into things for so long that it becomes impossible to tell where your plans end and the Shadow King begins. And all that before he even reaches into your mind. Like a well dressed strategic atomic bomber who never frowns.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:37
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I assume that Farouk is influencing Division 3 in a subtle way, perhaps by magnifying their actual fears about David and downplaying any they would have about Farouk being allowed to go free.
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Jul 3, 2019 10:03
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I guess another perspective of why this show is more fun to watch but not as fun to pay attention to is the fact that I personally despise characters that do not communicate a simple fact in order to allow the miscommunications between them be the cause of further conflict. Particularly, in this show's case, is the fact that David never actually communicates to Division 3 "Farouk is free, you understand his power, thus you should understand he is influencing you." This is a thing he knows for a fact because he had to reverse Farouk's influence. This is a thing Division 3 knows could happen. I don't expect it to fix anything if he says it but it's always nice to know he tried. Without it, it just feels like sloppy writing and poor character building. It's why I always appreciate those moments in media where one character questions something another character said or did and I audibly go "yeah, why that?!" Not enough writing is smart enough to do that. This is bad, I'm getting ranty. I'm still gonna watch the rest of this show and love it because it's very entertaining. I'm just done hoping they'll make it feel like any character earned anything they got.
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Jul 3, 2019 10:46
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DaveKap posted:I guess another perspective of why this show is more fun to watch but not as fun to pay attention to is the fact that I personally despise characters that do not communicate a simple fact in order to allow the miscommunications between them be the cause of further conflict. Particularly, in this show's case, is the fact that David never actually communicates to Division 3 "Farouk is free, you understand his power, thus you should understand he is influencing you." This is a thing he knows for a fact because he had to reverse Farouk's influence. This is a thing Division 3 knows could happen. I don't expect it to fix anything if he says it but it's always nice to know he tried. Without it, it just feels like sloppy writing and poor character building. It's why I always appreciate those moments in media where one character questions something another character said or did and I audibly go "yeah, why that?!" Not enough writing is smart enough to do that. I just assumed all that happened off-camera.
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Jul 3, 2019 11:09
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DaveKap posted:I guess another perspective of why this show is more fun to watch but not as fun to pay attention to is the fact that I personally despise characters that do not communicate a simple fact in order to allow the miscommunications between them be the cause of further conflict. Particularly, in this show's case, is the fact that David never actually communicates to Division 3 "Farouk is free, you understand his power, thus you should understand he is influencing you." This is a thing he knows for a fact because he had to reverse Farouk's influence. This is a thing Division 3 knows could happen. I don't expect it to fix anything if he says it but it's always nice to know he tried. Without it, it just feels like sloppy writing and poor character building. It's why I always appreciate those moments in media where one character questions something another character said or did and I audibly go "yeah, why that?!" Not enough writing is smart enough to do that. I also am kinda over seeing the same "everybody's getting high, let's play a 60s era song while people sway like hippies and smoke blows in the camera" scenes. They've repeated it many times in the series and each time it takes like 2-minute chunks out of the show for no reason.
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Jul 3, 2019 12:44
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Didn't David try to accuse everyone in the trial of being under Farouks control and they denied it or something? I thought it had been raised at least. JazzFlight posted:I also am kinda over seeing the same "everybody's getting high, let's play a 60s era song while people sway like hippies and smoke blows in the camera" scenes. They've repeated it many times in the series and each time it takes like 2-minute chunks out of the show for no reason. God, same. The drug use is getting almost fetishisistic now and is makes me super uncomfortable.
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Jul 3, 2019 14:23
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DaveKap posted:Whether he's being direct with his powers or passive by using as little of his power as possible for fun, I'd still consider the entire Division 3 group to be acting under false pretenses Farouk set up for them. That's quite the leap given the show seems to specifically be trying to blur the lines and leave it to the viewer to interpret or answer later. I can't recall any point where the show explicitly states that anyone is under Farouk's control in the present. I think the closest we get is him manipulating Syd into thinking that David has already turned villain but it's still not clear if any psychic powers were involved. I honestly don't think there was for a couple reasons: 1. I think Farouk is smart enough to know he might get caught if he blatantly uses his powers to manipulate her and why take the chance if it's not necessary 2. I think Farouk would find it more gratifying to pull the puppet strings simply with his words, speaks to the gamesmanship someone else noted I can understand getting frustrated with the blurred lines and not having a clear protagonist/antagonist dynamic but I feel like you might be mistaking that for poor writing which i don't think is fair. Another thing to remember is that there is no evidence Farouk is that old outside of him telling us that he is. I believe Division 3 stated they have evidence of him in the 18th century? If I recall they even remark on how legends grow and it's unlikely he's some ancient powerful entity. The two times they managed to kill David the Shadow King was there, just because he didn't land the killing blow doesn't mean he wasn't needed. In fact the second instance he is the distraction that allows Syd to get the shot.
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Jul 3, 2019 15:58
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Corte posted:That's quite the leap given the show seems to specifically be trying to blur the lines and leave it to the viewer to interpret or answer later. I can't recall any point where the show explicitly states that anyone is under Farouk's control in the present. I think the closest we get is him manipulating Syd into thinking that David has already turned villain but it's still not clear if any psychic powers were involved. I honestly don't think there was for a couple reasons:
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Jul 3, 2019 16:01
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Ersatz posted:Didn't season 2's finale explicitly show Farouk's rats scurrying around division 3 planting suggestions? It's not a stretch to see the entire organization as hopelessly compromised, with Farouk continuing to pull strings. Here are the scenes after David confronts Farouk in his cell: - Baskethead is looking at cameras and sees Syd having psychic sex stating she loves David - Cary recreates the scene and sees David mess with Syd's memories stating "it's treachery" - There is a short on Farouk's crown which allows him to whisper a message to a rodent - David is telepathically watching over Syd then fades away, rodent climbs up and shares Farouk's message - Title card: Chapter Twelve: Trial of the Shadow King In the end what is the sound of truth? Waves on a beach, the laugh of a child. Or perhaps there are competing truths. The truth of the mind, the truth of the heart. If all the apples are bruised, it is the unbruised apple that is bad, the sane man who’s crazy. For what is normal is that upon which nine wise men can agree, leaving the tenth to swing from a hangman’s rope. I think that's vague enough that it's not clear what exactly Farouk did and whether it was psychic manipulation or just informing Syd of the facts. I think given the rest of the show anything is possible. Honestly it's part of what I love about Legion, it's not a static or binary, but I can see how that may not be everyone's cup of tea. One thing I noticed in David's house was the use of nests as furniture or bedding for his followers which I thought was a nice touch given the theme of delusions and eggs from last season. Levin fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 16:23
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Corte posted:Here are the scenes after David confronts Farouk in his cell: Had the same thought w/respect to the nests, which were a great touch. Edit: there's actually an interesting issue w/regard to Syd and Farouk, and the idea of delivering "facts" stripped of context, and how the framing of said facts creates a perceived reality. My assumption while watching season 2 was that Farouk wasn't so much engaged in psychic fuckery when he informed Syd of David's torture of a mutual colleague, but was instead engaged in good-old fashioned brainwashing of the type that is presently being employed in the real world in, for example, the Xinjiang camps. Edit 2: edited edit 1 for clarity. Ersatz fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 17:14
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I personally don't think there's a need for Farouk to be influencing anyone yet. They all have a legitimate reason to want to take David down so it's much better to keep working with them than risk it by trying to do something shady. Likewise there wasn't a need for him to mentally turn them against him for the trial, David did that by himself and all he had to do was point it out to them. David DID take advantage of Syd. Farouk didn't make him do it or make her react to it like she did and he didn't need to.
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Jul 3, 2019 19:01
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DaveKap posted:Hilarious and annoying because I find myself rooting for David (he is ultimately the biggest victim, all things considered) while the show is trying to do everything in its power to make him the bad guy. They're probably never going to reconcile exactly how much brainwashing he ever actually did vs how much he was just reversing Farouk's fuckery. I currently have no idea how much of Syd's character (or any character in Division 3 for that matter) is actually Syd vs how much of it is Farouk's brainwashing, so none of the drama she has with David seems justified. The show makes her and all of Division 3 Farouk's mouthpiece while David is under Lenny's influence for being the only person who supports him. I can't even root for Kerry/Cary because they're also under Farouk's influence while Switch is now under Lenny-via-David's influence... and David is being haunted by the split personalities it turns out he has after all. We literally saw David using his powers to manipulate Lenny when he forced her to feel happy and go eat so he could talk to Switch alone. Now, obviously he hasn't brainwashed her enough to prevent her from feeling jealous over Switch and question his motives, but she is far from free of being supernaturally influenced. I'll grant that the show has given little reason to trust Farouk, but it's given plenty of reasons not to trust David. The guy has set up a cult of drug addicted young women who's religious symbol is a vagina. He's created a literal virgin birth for no other reason than to play God. He's become a blatant metaphor for white male privilege, holding all the power he gained through quirk of birth, but unable to fully see the damage it's caused except for where it has harmed him. Sure, he's as much a victim for what Farouk did to him, but that in no way excuses him perpetrating that abuse on others.
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Jul 3, 2019 19:23
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