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Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe Biden, the Inappropriate Toucher |
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18 | 1.46% |
| Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer |
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665 | 54.11% |
| Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker |
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319 | 25.96% |
| Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord |
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26 | 2.12% |
| Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Julian Castro, the Twin |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath |
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17 | 1.38% |
| Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino |
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3 | 0.24% |
| Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist |
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8 | 0.65% |
| Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen |
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86 | 7.00% |
| Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater |
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23 | 1.87% |
| Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool |
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32 | 2.60% |
| Eric Swalwell, the Insurance Wife Guy |
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2 | 0.16% |
| Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast |
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1 | 0.08% |
| Bill de Blasio, the NYPD Most Hated |
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4 | 0.33% |
| Tim Ryan, the Dope Face |
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3 | 0.24% |
| John Hickenlooper, the Also Ran |
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7 | 0.57% |
| Total: | 1229 votes | ||
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mcmagic posted:Bernie needs to do better. He clearly didn't do well in the first debate. dnc and media: *banging the debate schedule* CLOWNSHOWS CLOWNSHOWS CLOWNSHOWS
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Jul 2, 2019 15:53
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That is overall. Among democrats in the CNN poll Bernie has the highest favorability among democrats. If we're going to focus on that CNN poll, here's the net favorable/unfavorable for the top candidates among democrats Biden +53 Bernie +55 Warren +52 Buttigieg +37 Harris +53
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Jul 2, 2019 15:54
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Phone posted:Ｒ Ａ Ｔ Ｉ Ｏ Ｎ Ａ Ｌ Ａ Ｃ Ｔ Ｏ Ｒ Ｓ I mean, it fits if you actually think healthcare expenses are such a large portion of a company's balance sheet that shareholders would rather see their tax burden double/triple than continue to pay it. Marxalot fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 15:56
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Mellow Seas posted:Risk aversion? Yes, correct, their ideology prevents them from ever concluding that socialism is the answer to anything (well except socialism-for-business ie fascism). Even in the face of objective reality, even if it's costing them money, even if the dynasty they're obsessed with building is inevitably going to be washed away in climate apocalypse. E: remember that this was the assumption behind the structure of Obamacare: businesses would be all in once they realized how much money they could save by dumping employees on the public exchanges, and then the resulting massive risk pools of the exchanges would ratchet provider and drug prices down through superior market force. Did that happen, no, businesses were pissed the gently caress off and whined about losing employees because anyone could just get an ACA exchange plan rather than be chained to a job for the health care benefits. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 16:05
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Marxalot posted:You have some decent points about how just screaming "it's capital" can be entirely too reductive at times, but in this particular context the capitalists themselves are chained together by the stock market. Also taxation. I think narratives around taxation (even if false) and loss aversion on the stock market (no matter how small) would play a bigger role in opposition to M4A than any kind of "rational economic self-interest". The outcome is the same however: capital opposing M4A *even* if it saves them money in the long run.
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Jul 2, 2019 16:12
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Marxalot posted:I mean, it fits if you actually think healthcare expenses are such a large portion of a company's balance sheet that shareholders would rather see their tax burden double/triple than continue to pay it. Also if you assume that for some reason businesses won't continue forcing people onto high deductible health plans and loading them with cost-sharing.
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Jul 2, 2019 16:16
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Pembroke Fuse posted:Capitalist interests are often at odds with each other and treating the capitalist class as a monolith is ahistorical and not particularly coherent (even from a purely Marxist perspective, capitalism is supposed to be "anarchic" after all). Being a part of a class doesn't grant you a revelatory understanding of what is and isn't profitable and what does and does not satisfy your class interests in the short or long term (i.e. CEO as long-term manager vs. CEO as resource plunderer). Class-consciousness, in the sense of knowing you're part of a class or what your class interests actually are, is neither guaranteed nor automatic. Capitalists are just as likely to fall for bad narratives and their own propaganda as anyone else. Capitalists don't require a "revelatory" [sic] understanding of profit to recognize the obvious benefits of coordinating to defend their class interest, which is exactly what opposition to Medicare for All entails. We're talking about a comparatively small group with lower coordination costs and extremely strong material incentives, attended by armies of accountants, lawyer and lobbyists. And this doesn't even begin to address the fact that the rich have numerous institutions dedicated more or less exclusively to transmitting a sense of class consciousness from one generation to the next. Capitalists and workers don't just randomly adopt "narratives" that have no connection to their lived experiences or economic motivations and there is a clear and obvious connection between your worldview and your economic situation. You don't even need Marx to understand this. Adam Smith famously describes how "Masters are always and every where in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform combination, not to raise the wages of labour above their actual rate". Mellow Seas posted:Proponents of M4A should say it’s good for businesses because that will make the policy seem Smart and Sober and Responsible to a certain type of voter, and the mechanism by which it could hypothetically benefit businesses (lower costs) is easy to explain and understand. And if business owners and corporations say they don’t actually want it, just double down and repeat that it’s good for them anyway. It's loving insane to think you can reverse engineer the strategies of a party run by white supremacist oligarchs and merely apply the same tactics to fight for a completely different political agenda. All you're doing is giving your leaders the necessary tools to break their promises. All you're doing is taking the most politically active and conscious part of your own coalition and constantly telling them to internalize the beliefs and thoughts of the enemy. Seriously, how do you not get that what you're describing has been the mainstream Democratic approach for decades? You're more or less describing the ideology of the New Democrats and then of the Obama administration.
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Jul 2, 2019 16:29
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Pembroke Fuse posted:I think narratives around taxation (even if false) and loss aversion on the stock market (no matter how small) would play a bigger role in opposition to M4A than any kind of "rational economic self-interest". The outcome is the same however: capital opposing M4A *even* if it saves them money in the long run. This is correct, but it doesn't necessarily conflict with a class-based analysis either. Holders of capital have a lot of incentives to rationalize holding power over their hired labor, and "fine, quit, your family member will die when your health care runs out" is a hell of a lot of power.
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Jul 2, 2019 16:31
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Helsing posted:It's loving insane to think you can reverse engineer the strategies of a party run by white supremacist oligarchs and merely apply the same tactics to fight for a completely different political agenda. All you're doing is giving your leaders the necessary tools to break their promises. All you're doing is taking the most politically active and conscious part of your own coalition and constantly telling them to internalize the beliefs and thoughts of the enemy. Yeah it reminds me of Elizabeth Warren's eco-militarism. Conservatives have used war propaganda to advance their agenda for decades, so all we have to do is agree that war and militarism and imperialism are great and join in on propagandizing Americans into being terrified and warlike and then say "btdubs environmentalism is good for the troops" and we can turn everyone into environmentalists.
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Jul 2, 2019 16:35
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oxsnard posted:In aggregate, employer contributions to HC plans have increased roughly 7% annually since ACA while employee costs have gone up less than that, about equal to inflation. Source: my sister, who works for one of the big actuarial firms you're a kingnastidon alt
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Jul 2, 2019 16:55
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https://twitter.com/awgaffney/status/1146066979419086848?s=21
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Jul 2, 2019 16:56
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Ah but you see, if you tell them that Medicare For All will personally raise their taxes by a million billion percent, they don't like it, so you see it's just impossible in the face of public opinion.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:00
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jesus christ is the whole "i wanna keep my private plan under m4a" because people just wanted to keep their doctor?
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Jul 2, 2019 17:05
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Groovelord Neato posted:jesus christ is the whole "i wanna keep my private plan under m4a" because people just wanted to keep their doctor? There's probably been a shift over the past ten years as private insurance has gotten increasingly more and more exploitatively horrible. Ten years ago there probably were people who were happy with their insurance. These days even "good" insurance involves getting jerked around, charged immense deductibles, etc.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:07
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a good insurance plan in 2019 includes a high deductible plan, a health savings account, and trying to hit your cap as soon as possible at the beginning of the year so you can build back up your hsa for next year dental and vision are, of course, extra
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Jul 2, 2019 17:10
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maybe it's because i live out in the sticks where almost everyone's primary physician is the nurse practitioner at the cvs two towns over because the regional hospital chain that bought up every medical facility in a 150 mile radius shut down all the outlying clinics years ago, but how the gently caress do people think this works where all of a sudden their current doctor disappears or something is it like how most people think evolution works like pokemon or some poo poo
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Jul 2, 2019 17:12
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My wife pays for the top-tier Kaiser plan at over $650 per month and it covers almost nothing except flu shots. lmao at people that want to keep the current system. Burn it all down. Literally having no system and paying cash straight to doctors would be better.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:12
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Groovelord Neato posted:jesus christ is the whole "i wanna keep my private plan under m4a" because people just wanted to keep their doctor? Yes - and this is definitely due to Obama's "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan" messages. Like it or not, these are people responding to muddled (Democratic Party) messaging by conflating a believe that 'Obamacare' lead to people losing their doctors because their specific plan changed in some way. Regardless if this believe if rooted in good faith, or even accurate - its common public perception. Remember, this was literally the PolitiFact "Lie of the Year in 2013".
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Jul 2, 2019 17:13
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Phone posted:a good insurance plan in 2019 includes a high deductible plan, a health savings account, and trying to hit your cap as soon as possible at the beginning of the year so you can build back up your hsa for next year My wife and I are expecting with an early due date of January and she's talking about being induced Dec 31st so we can hit our deductible and that is just so loving insane to me on multiple levels.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:15
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tiberion02 posted:Yes - and this is definitely due to Obama's "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan" messages. yeah that didn't even enter my thinking. it seemed so obvious if you had universal healthcare you could just go wherever you wanted. thanks obama.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:18
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Imagine having a doctor to lose, lmao
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Jul 2, 2019 17:20
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Marxalot posted:Imagine having a doctor to lose, lmao many many people cannot risk losing their doctor my friend. Doesn't excuse issue of millions not being able to have a regular doctor, but if my child were to lose access to her gastroenterologist because of insurance company fuckery we would be in a boat of trouble. I'm not worried about this happening under MFA, but i'm sure as hell worried about it when my employer changes plans, or what will happen when insurance company start squeezing me more than they currently are. On Terra Firma posted:My wife and I are expecting with an early due date of January and she's talking about being induced Dec 31st so we can hit our deductible and that is just so loving insane to me on multiple levels. They'll just delay the billing cycle and gently caress you anyway.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:29
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On Terra Firma posted:My wife and I are expecting with an early due date of January and she's talking about being induced Dec 31st so we can hit our deductible and that is just so loving insane to me on multiple levels. I know someone that did this. It worked out ok but nuts, yes.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:33
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the idea that there’s a physician that you see all the time whenever you go to the doctor for non-specialty things like therapy is just wild to me. like my PCP is “who is available the earliest that also has an availability that matches when I don’t work”
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Jul 2, 2019 17:36
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Consider extending the pregnancy for a couple years until M4A kicks in. Inconvenient I know, but a side benefit is that when the child is finally born they will be very powerful, having absorbed so much extra energy.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:36
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Breakfast All Day posted:But I probably just don't grasp the fine subtleties of the economy well enough to have Serious Thoughts about it like this:
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Jul 2, 2019 17:37
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Wrong thread
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Jul 2, 2019 17:39
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PenguinKnight posted:the idea that there’s a physician that you see all the time whenever you go to the doctor for non-specialty things like therapy is just wild to me. It was how things worked when boomers were children sooo they think it's still the norm
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Jul 2, 2019 17:39
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Groovelord Neato posted:jesus christ is the whole "i wanna keep my private plan under m4a" because people just wanted to keep their doctor? I wouldn't be surprised. People are so used to having to change doctors when they change insurance, or get hosed by out of network costs, that it doesn't immediately occur to them that there could be a better way. Especially since previous government healthcare initiatives, like Medicaid and Obamacare, have done little to address that problem. The Muppets On PCP posted:maybe it's because i live out in the sticks where almost everyone's primary physician is the nurse practitioner at the cvs two towns over because the regional hospital chain that bought up every medical facility in a 150 mile radius shut down all the outlying clinics years ago, but how the gently caress do people think this works where all of a sudden their current doctor disappears or something In the private insurance industry, each insurance company has a "network" of doctors that they've negotiated special deals with, and you only get full insurance coverage if you go to those doctors. If you're seen by a doctor that isn't in-network, you get reduced coverage and higher costs. And while Medicaid and Medicare don't have networks, doctors are allowed to refuse to accept all patients covered by those systems, and many do. So if you change insurance companies, the amount you pay at your preferred doctor may suddenly increase by several times, visits might stop counting toward deductibles and out-of-pocket maximums, and so on.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:42
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:many many people cannot risk losing their doctor my friend. Doesn't excuse issue of millions not being able to have a regular doctor, but if my child were to lose access to her gastroenterologist because of insurance company fuckery we would be in a boat of trouble. It was a joke* about basic healthcare being unattainably expensive, not me being randomly anti-doctor. That said, everything about this post is why people need to absolutely demand universal healthcare that is free at the point of service. None of this halfassed "sustainable access to an affordable public option" horseshit that literally every Dem who isn't Bernie is trying to peddle right now. *humor is a good coping mechanism because it makes the undiagnosed chest pains go away!
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Jul 2, 2019 17:43
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PenguinKnight posted:the idea that there’s a physician that you see all the time whenever you go to the doctor for non-specialty things like therapy is just wild to me. Not only that, some plans *require* a referral from your PCP before they’ll cover a specialist visit. Fun times!
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Jul 2, 2019 17:44
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Main Paineframe posted:I wouldn't be surprised. People are so used to having to change doctors when they change insurance, or get hosed by out of network costs, that it doesn't immediately occur to them that there could be a better way. Especially since previous government healthcare initiatives, like Medicaid and Obamacare, have done little to address that problem. yeah it finally makes sense because the "i'd rather keep my private plan over a cheaper and easier to use system that i can't go bankrupt from" was bonkers.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:45
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Groovelord Neato posted:yeah it finally makes sense because the "i'd rather keep my private plan over a cheaper and easier to use system that i can't go bankrupt from" was bonkers. Its fear of the unknown plain and simple. When what's at stake is your health and ultimately your life and that of your loved ones people get pretty risk averse pretty drat quick.
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Jul 2, 2019 18:05
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Oracle posted:Its fear of the unknown plain and simple. When what's at stake is your health and ultimately your life and that of your loved ones people get pretty risk averse pretty drat quick. You could see this a lot a few years ago even when it was put into the heads of folks with pre-existing conditions that going to M4A would result in that protection being scrapped.
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Jul 2, 2019 18:22
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Mike the TV posted:My wife pays for the top-tier Kaiser plan at over $650 per month and it covers almost nothing except flu shots. Just wondering what she thinks it doesn't cover. My employer gives me the same $653.64 Kaiser plan (I pay $65), $10 copays, $1500 max out of pocket a year. It covers a lot but maybe I still don't understand how HMOs in this country work. goethe.cx posted:Not only that, some plans *require* a referral from your PCP before they’ll cover a specialist visit. Fun times! This is how it works in Australia Speaking of which, in Australia the doctor nearest to me that knew my family's history (he was my mum's doctor too) that I liked charged $10 more than what he was getting reimbursed by the government. I had to make up that difference. Finding a doctor that didn't charge more than the government's paltry reimbursement rate (what they call bulk billing doctors) are hard to find and typically overworked because so many people want to use them. All because the government says "welp, we think doctors only need $x to provide health care" when the doctor then says "well I need y$ to spend the necessary amount of time with patients instead of trying to get as many in/out the door as fast as possible". Then the patient has to decide do they want to pay $$ out of pocket to see a local doctor, or go to the hospital where it's always bulk billing rate and wait 4 hours to be seen. How does Bernie's model fix this problem that Australia has? Bald Stalin fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 18:36
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Mike the TV posted:My wife pays for the top-tier Kaiser plan at over $650 per month and it covers almost nothing except flu shots. Just wondering why she isn't satisfied with the S+ tier Kaiser plan. Its absolutely wonderful, it covers everything, and I only pay $10 copay. What more could you possibly want?
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Jul 2, 2019 18:38
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Bernie raised $18 million in the second quarter and transferred $6 million from another account for a total of $24 million reported to FEC: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/p...tals-2019-07-01 The campaign is saying the $18 million came from nearly 1,000,000 "individual contributions" that averaged $18 (99% of donations were under $100).
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Jul 2, 2019 18:43
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Is this good? Or do I live in mortal fear for the Butt has 25 million?
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Jul 2, 2019 18:53
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Welp. Several months to go, and a few debates. Nonsense fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 18:54
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Calibanibal posted:Just wondering why she isn't satisfied with the S+ tier Kaiser plan. Its absolutely wonderful, it covers everything, and I only pay $10 copay. What more could you possibly want? Not to derail much, but she has chronic issues that cause her to be hospitalized up to a few weeks a year on a bad year. All of that can usually be prevented, but Kaiser's doctors refuse to do more than the basic minimum and have actively made things worse several times in pursuit of cutting costs for themselves. This has exacerbated her issues and we've hit the fairly high out of pocket max twice now. Looking forward to dropping them this year and switching to a better insurance where she can go back to the out-of-state doctors that know her and properly treat her.
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Jul 2, 2019 18:58
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