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fishmech posted:Cool, a chart showing that digital books (in this case PDF) are incredibly easy to access. Kinda amazing that you missed that! 
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Jul 2, 2019 04:53
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Jony Ive has been phoning it in for years.
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Jul 2, 2019 04:58
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Physical books typically don’t last very long. If you have very old book that is cool but it’s survivorship bias and every year less and less of that print run of the book still exist unless they are being actively preserved. You really are this much of a tech fettishist to believe this, aren't you? Do you even read your own posts? You don't need to do much preservation for a book for a good half century or more.....just being in a space where people live is plenty. 50 year old bitrot is basically 100%.
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Jul 2, 2019 05:14
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Jony Ive has been phoning it in for years. This is a rather massive leadership failure on the part of Tim Cook to either put Ive on a sabbatical to take care of his dad and have someone step into his shoes or to allow him to work when he wasn’t being distracted with life and death poo poo. But man does this explain a great deal.
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Jul 2, 2019 05:15
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Jony Ive has been phoning it in for years. I mean I can't blame him if he's got real life stuff going on and they're demanding he have micromanagerial level involvement with the design team despite it.
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Jul 2, 2019 05:25
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Motronic posted:50 year old bitrot is basically 100%. That's absolutely wrong. By far the biggest cause of missing data from 50 years ago is the media simply having been erased and reused in the ensuing time before being retired to storage.
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Jul 2, 2019 05:28
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I like physical books
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Jul 2, 2019 05:39
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I'm sure you do. But the fact it's on your rare book shelf instead of your common book shelf implies that most of those books are long gone and did not survive like that one did, every year there will be less copies of that book in the world till there is none at all. Your one book randomly surviving longer than average doesn't mean books are eternal things. Most copies of that book are long gone, and unless there is something special about that copy it too will be gone sometime too. Odds are very low that is the text book people are gonna be digging up like the dead sea scrolls or something a thousand years from now. i always appreciate your capacity to repeat yourself like people just didn't understand you the first time as the obvious joke just sails blissfully along maybe if you tell nobody in particular for a third time about how physical objects are destroyed, you might catch someone's interest. probably not though
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Jul 2, 2019 05:56
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Motronic posted:You really are this much of a tech fettishist to believe this, aren't you? Do you even read your own posts? Bitrot isn’t real.
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Jul 2, 2019 06:13
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Bitrot isn’t real. it definitely is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_degradation
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Jul 2, 2019 06:22
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Hey everyone, it's me, the poster who tells you to stop engaging with OOOC because he's a smooth-brained idiot and is wrong about literally every thing, and is double wrong about literally every tech thing. I put his rear end on ignore ages ago and you can too. Then nobody has him on ignore ever has to see a quoted post from him ever again and we can continue more constructive discussion: the slow-moving freight train wreck that is our oncoming tech dystopia.
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Jul 2, 2019 06:27
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paperwind posted:Hey everyone, it's me, the poster who tells you to stop engaging with OOOC because he's a smooth-brained idiot and is wrong about literally every thing, and is double wrong about literally every tech thing. I put his rear end on ignore ages ago and you can too. Then nobody has him on ignore ever has to see a quoted post from him ever again and we can continue more constructive discussion: the slow-moving freight train wreck that is our oncoming tech dystopia.
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Jul 2, 2019 09:39
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OTOH quoting him when he says something as stupid as "bitrot is not real" is good fun and maybe someone should keep him unignored for the laughs. Just don't engage him, TIA.
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Jul 2, 2019 09:40
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paperwind posted:Hey everyone, it's me, the poster who tells you to stop engaging with OOOC because he's a smooth-brained idiot and is wrong about literally every thing, and is double wrong about literally every tech thing. I put his rear end on ignore ages ago and you can too. Then nobody has him on ignore ever has to see a quoted post from him ever again and we can continue more constructive discussion: the slow-moving freight train wreck that is our oncoming tech dystopia. Also Fishmech
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Jul 2, 2019 09:40
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Jony Ive has been iPhoning it in for years. Thread title.
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Jul 2, 2019 13:31
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Re: book preservation, books can last for hundreds, even thousands, of years but it mostly depends on the paper & ink. That's why books from the 19th century are still around in huge numbers (because they were mostly printed on rag paper with lower acidity ink) and a lot of mediaeval manuscripts survive (because they tended to be on vellum or other parchments) but mass market paperbacks from the mid 20th century will often fall apart in your hands, especially if they're cheap printings. I've got a ton of old books and it's extraordinary how the 50's & 60's novels are extremely brittle compared to say, the 1850s poetry books. The ink rots the paper - which is generally cheap woodpulp, as almost all books are these days- and the pages literally start to turn to dust after less than a century. I guess that's kind of a lesser considered tech nightmare: mass production consumerism preferences cheap low quality production and as a result, huge amounts of the material culture from the 20th & 21st centuries will undoubtedly be completely lost without any chance of preserving it, digital or not. Ironically, what's probably the time of largest scale and most accessible material and cultural output ever seen by humanity preferences materials with poor preservation to the point that future archaeologists are going to struggle with interpretation and preservation a lot more than they will with say, the 18th and 19th centuries. Edit: from an archaeologists perspective, though, physical media wins out everytime despite preservation problems. We've gotten really good at eking information out of old manuscripts even when much of the text is gone, and there's so much other information contained within a physical object that just isn't ever going to be there in a digital format (e.g. material analysis of isotopes etc.) If you actually want something to last forever forever though, your best bet is still always gonna be to carve it in massive letters in a hard stone and then bury the whole thing nice and deep in a desert of some description. small ghost fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 13:54
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Thread title. 
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Jul 2, 2019 14:10
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Xarn posted:OTOH quoting him when he says something as stupid as "bitrot is not real" is good fun and maybe someone should keep him unignored for the laughs. Just don't engage him, TIA. bitrot literally isn't real. Like your cd might oxidize and your hard disk might wear out and your SSD might build up a charge or whatever, but there is no concept that your pdf file is going to get moldy or something. Digital media can be kept absolutely perfectly forever and ever in a way analog media can't. If you localize the file on one single floppy disk or something then never touch it again it'll eventually fall apart but you just have to not do that. Data is abstract from media is replaceable. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 2, 2019 14:21
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Jul 2, 2019 14:22
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The tripling down on his wrong opinion while having the problem in his own post is just peak OOCC "just have to not do that" indeed
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Jul 2, 2019 15:22
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Xarn posted:Also Fishmech On the other hand, there is nothing on SA funnier than agreeing with Fishmech while he drives 20 people crazy with a pedantic derail.
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Jul 2, 2019 16:07
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When you think about it, oral histories are indestructible because all you need to do is just not let people forget things and then the information itself cannot ever be lost. The data itself is abstract from media! Bing bong bing, so simple!
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Jul 2, 2019 16:11
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mandatory lesbian posted:the rising waters will wipe out paper just as easily as electronics so this whole argument is null Every survivor of the Great Climate-Culling will be required to memorize a book of their choosing and teach a replacement before they die.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:04
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Ignoring then both takes dozens of pages off some threads. It's incredible. I still hold that the only reason FYAD doesn't troll D&D as often these days is that Fishmech and OOCC disrupt things perfectly well just by posting earnestly.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:26
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:bitrot literally isn't real. Like your cd might oxidize and your hard disk might wear out and your SSD might build up a charge or whatever, but there is no concept that your pdf file is going to get moldy or something. Digital media can be kept absolutely perfectly forever and ever in a way analog media can't. If you localize the file on one single floppy disk or something then never touch it again it'll eventually fall apart but you just have to not do that. Data is abstract from media is replaceable. You're confusing "possible" with "necessary". You can copy the information contained on paper and vellum too, it's just less important since good quality paper/vellum can last 1000+ years. Digital information on the other hand does require regular copying to preserve it over a long period; this is not an advantage.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:35
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Gum posted:You're confusing "possible" with "necessary". You can copy the information contained on paper and vellum too, it's just less important since good quality paper/vellum can last 1000+ years. Digital information on the other hand does require regular copying to preserve it over a long period; this is not an advantage. It's also worth noting that some of the most interesting and historically relevant documents we have access to from the past, aren't the sorts of records that people would've specifically set out to preserve. 20 years after some middle-class woman's will has been written and executed, it's of no importance to anyone. 200-500 years later, it's a valuable insight into economy, family structure, and cultural norms.
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Jul 2, 2019 19:45
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This thread will probably be readable (if anyone cared to) ten thousand years from now in like twenty different forms from 20 different backups of backups of backups shoved into a corner of some data sphere or something. https://web.archive.org/web/20171223074727/https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3763277 It doesn't matter if lowtax's spine falls out and this site is eventually gone. In the modern age stuff isn't just kept on one floppy disk, even stuff you make casually is copied across dozens of archives that will get compressed into other archives that will get compressed into other archives forever and ever until the end of time. stuff anyone actually intends to actually save will never go away ever again.
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Jul 2, 2019 21:10
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:bitrot literally isn't real. Like your cd might oxidize and your hard disk might wear out and your SSD might build up a charge or whatever, but there is no concept that your pdf file is going to get moldy or something. Digital media can be kept absolutely perfectly forever and ever in a way analog media can't. If you localize the file on one single floppy disk or something then never touch it again it'll eventually fall apart but you just have to not do that. Data is abstract from media is replaceable. It's not literally rotting, you know. Tell me you understand that no one thinks there's a mushroom growing on your harddrive.
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Jul 2, 2019 21:38
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pffff and I bet you think that her emails weren't wiped with a cloth and some acid? very acid bleach, i heard she used a nice cloth too.
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Jul 2, 2019 21:41
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itt oocc nerdsplains the concept of backups as he engages in trumpian bitbleach levels of communication failure. someone reboot that boy
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Jul 2, 2019 21:42
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I think it's pretty bold to say bitrot isn't real and then explain how bitrot is real
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Jul 2, 2019 21:50
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Ah, arguing cosmic rays don't exist is a new one for OOCC.
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Jul 2, 2019 21:50
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mandatory lesbian posted:I think it's pretty bold to say bitrot isn't real and then explain how bitrot is real How Can Bitrot Be Real If Our Backups Aren't Real
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Jul 2, 2019 21:52
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:This thread will probably be readable (if anyone cared to) ten thousand years from now in like twenty different forms from 20 different backups of backups of backups shoved into a corner of some data sphere or something. This thread isn't even readable now. 
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Jul 2, 2019 22:02
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Every single post on the SA forums is being preserved by the library of congress fyi
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Jul 2, 2019 22:10
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I dunno, we're acting like "a digital" is this 100% fidelity copy and in the context of forums threads the other results are absolutely not the same. like see if you can pick up on the subtle tells that this site isn't the authentic Something Awful experience.
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Jul 2, 2019 22:14
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fishmech posted:Every single post on the SA forums is being preserved by the library of congress fyi Please no
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Jul 2, 2019 22:28
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RBA Starblade posted:Please no https://www.loc.gov/item/lcwaN0009701/ Sorry, it's true.
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Jul 2, 2019 22:36
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RBA Starblade posted:Please no Actually yes. *farts* *shits self* *masturbates to tubgirl*
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Jul 2, 2019 22:37
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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HootTheOwl posted:It's not literally rotting, you know. Your hard drive can fail or not fail. But data isn't your hard drive. That is more true now than ever. Data doesn't decay, you can make perfect identical copies of it forever, things individual copies are stored on can fall apart but that has no meaning for the long term survival of a file.
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Jul 2, 2019 22:44
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