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What Ultimate Marvel issue is the Ultimate Spider-Ham and Miles thing from?
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Jun 29, 2019 21:21
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Ultimate FF (2014), I think issues 4-6.
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Jun 29, 2019 21:38
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:We should also note that Captain Americat and Hulk-Bunny aren't recent characters, they were first introduced in the first Peter Porker comic 36 years ago: Boo, not Kitten America?
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Jun 29, 2019 22:54
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Nor Cat-ian America
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Jun 29, 2019 23:05
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:We should also note that Captain Americat and Hulk-Bunny aren't recent characters, they were first introduced in the first Peter Porker comic 36 years ago: I think I mentioned that Spider Ham is the oldest character besides Peter Parker. Noir has a couple years on Miles, I believe, and Gwen only predates Peni by a month.
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Jun 29, 2019 23:26
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Back when comics were allowed to be fun and be funny. I hope they got into Porker's universe at some point and there's Space Jam jokes. And at least that Miles incorporates the cartoon mallet into his fighting style.
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Jun 30, 2019 03:12
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I checked this out on Netflix just now and loved it. I have one lingering strange thought/question though. What was Uncle Aaron’s motivation to be the Prowler? I felt like the movie took the time to show us he was basically an all right guy and his death was made less meaningful because we don’t know why he was helping Fisk. Was he just an evil dude and Miles’ innocence prevented him from seeing it? Was he a good dude compromised by something? Revenge? Grief? Was he being threatened? It just felt weirdly empty when it should have been a powerful moment. Otherwise super fun!
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Jun 30, 2019 20:25
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Wrong path.
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Jun 30, 2019 20:49
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Yeah, he's a foil to Miles' dad. Otherwise? Just look at his sick pad, his air of being a guy who takes jobs as he wishes, who doesn't like being constrained. Guy probably earned 3x a cop's paycheck for like a week's worth of 'work' and could live comfortably as a result. You can easily guess he was probably someone who could have breezed through school and done some work with Google/AIM/SHIELD/etc but he either didn't have the temperment to stay with things or had discipline issues that kept him out of that path. The backstory with him and Miles' dad is basically two kids from the hood who diverged. (And another riff on the expectations thing from Miles' story). I thought his death was effective since it was his personal life taking precedence over his professional life. It's a moment where a guy that's basically compartmentalized his profession realizes that he can't run away anymore. It also bridged that brotherly divide and cause Miles' dad to re-examine a few things. I guess I should also add that, if you're not familiar with themes in minority YA stuff, there's an incredible emphasis on The Right Path, A Good Education, and Good Choices FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jun 30, 2019 |
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Jun 30, 2019 21:04
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https://twitter.com/pelagidae/status/1095904247974060032
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Jun 30, 2019 23:03
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dantheman650 posted:I checked this out on Netflix just now and loved it. I have one lingering strange thought/question though. What was Uncle Aaron’s motivation to be the Prowler? I felt like the movie took the time to show us he was basically an all right guy and his death was made less meaningful because we don’t know why he was helping Fisk. Was he just an evil dude and Miles’ innocence prevented him from seeing it? Was he a good dude compromised by something? Revenge? Grief? Was he being threatened? It just felt weirdly empty when it should have been a powerful moment. He had great power, but didn't want to take responsibility. He saw an opportunity to make easy money and never stopped to consider the consequences, until they were right there in his face. Contrast that to Miles' dad, who is all about responsibility, to the point where it leaves him more or less powerless to do what needs to be done.
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Jul 1, 2019 15:31
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dantheman650 posted:I checked this out on Netflix just now and loved it. I have one lingering strange thought/question though. What was Uncle Aaron’s motivation to be the Prowler? I felt like the movie took the time to show us he was basically an all right guy and his death was made less meaningful because we don’t know why he was helping Fisk. Was he just an evil dude and Miles’ innocence prevented him from seeing it? Was he a good dude compromised by something? Revenge? Grief? Was he being threatened? It just felt weirdly empty when it should have been a powerful moment. My headcanon is that the kind of black household that would create an authoritarian cop despite living in and presumably growing up in a lower class New York family was also super conservative in other ways and Aaron being estranged from Jefferson is because the family rejected him due to being gay, queer, or otherwise not traditionally cishet enough for them to accept him. Being rejected and feeling outside of society made it that much easier for him to fall into a crowd of baddies who were living that way for their own ends and made him feel less obligation to live under the laws and standards of the society that had rejected him. Aaron is even conspicuously shown without a love interest or partner and Prowler's entire getup has a bright purple motif and is generally more showy and flamboyant with its fluttering cape and huge collar and long claws and fluid exaggerated movements compared to how relatively simple and sleek the other villains and heroes are, you could totally take it as some sort of coding if you wanted to. It fits right in with Jefferson being emotionally withdrawn and controlling and having trouble showing vulnerability and expressing his feelings to his son if he is also estranged from Aaron due to similarly not ever apologizing to or openly embracing and accepting him and that resentment driving them apart even when they were both adults and living on their own. Also why Miles seems to be at a loss to why his dad doesn't want them hanging out despite the fact that he was Prowler and working with criminals being a complete shock and surprise after they find out. Obviously this is all just personal theorizing based on what the movie presents to us and it works just as well if Aaron just lives that way because having a nicer apartment and lifestyle on one income compared to Miles's house being chaotic and decrepit with both parents working long hours at stressful jobs.
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Jul 1, 2019 23:05
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Nah, it's not even all that. Aaron wanted to get that lifestyle and not be poor, and he wasn't afraid to take on that side work to get there. That's all it was. There are thousands of people who would be Aaron in inner cities right now. Edit: Purple, pink, all of those colors man, dudes wear those all the time. Some dudes just enjoy being flashy.
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Jul 2, 2019 01:41
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Sleeveless posted:My headcanon is that the kind of black household that would create an authoritarian cop despite living in and presumably growing up in a lower class New York family was also super conservative in other ways and Aaron being estranged from Jefferson is because the family rejected him due to being gay, queer, or otherwise not traditionally cishet enough for them to accept him. Being rejected and feeling outside of society made it that much easier for him to fall into a crowd of baddies who were living that way for their own ends and made him feel less obligation to live under the laws and standards of the society that had rejected him. Aaron is even conspicuously shown without a love interest or partner and Prowler's entire getup has a bright purple motif and is generally more showy and flamboyant with its fluttering cape and huge collar and long claws and fluid exaggerated movements compared to how relatively simple and sleek the other villains and heroes are, you could totally take it as some sort of coding if you wanted to. I don’t think the dad is shocked that his brother is a criminal. The entire subtext of their relationship is that he’s worried his brother is a bad influence on his son. He’s shocked that his brother is a murderous supercriminal vs a guy who steals electronics and probably is especially shocked that he was murdered in the street in broad daylight by that weird new spiderman.
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Jul 2, 2019 01:56
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I don’t think the dad is shocked that his brother is a criminal. The entire subtext of their relationship is that he’s worried his brother is a bad influence on his son. He’s shocked that his brother is a murderous supercriminal vs a guy who steals electronics and probably is especially shocked that he was murdered in the street in broad daylight by that weird new spiderman. I just finished watching this on Netflix. The dad outright says that Aaron's involved in shady stuff and that Miles should be careful. I agree that the shock is "is a costumed supervillain working as the Kingpin's assassin" and "is murdered by Spider-man."
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Jul 2, 2019 03:54
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dantheman650 posted:I checked this out on Netflix just now and loved it. I have one lingering strange thought/question though. What was Uncle Aaron’s motivation to be the Prowler? I felt like the movie took the time to show us he was basically an all right guy and his death was made less meaningful because we don’t know why he was helping Fisk. Was he just an evil dude and Miles’ innocence prevented him from seeing it? Was he a good dude compromised by something? Revenge? Grief? Was he being threatened? It just felt weirdly empty when it should have been a powerful moment. It's a pretty common trope in depictions of Black families that you have (at least) one kid that goes straight (joins the military, becomes a cop, goes into politics, etc) as a way to try to pull themselves up and shake whatever stigma comes with growing up in a poor, rough area and one kid that goes the route of crime (or at least behavior that in excessively criminalized due to racism) in order to get the "good life" they were denied and the tension comes from how those characters play off each other in their pursuits of similar ends while also unable to recognize the similarities in their distinct worldviews. Jeff and Aaron both respect each other, even if they don't necessarily understand why the other made the choices they made. They both love Miles, they both want to provide for their families in their own way, they both are dedicated to their vocations to the point of extremism despite the risk to themselves (we see more of this in Aaron's case, but Jeff running towards the exploding universe shatter machine instead of, you know, helping people evac or even responding to his radio strikes me as the same impulse). They both worry that the lessons the other is teaching to Miles are failing to properly prepare him to fulfill his potential, or even be content with his life. Aaron's motivation is that he understands the law and the way the world works, but probably feels that he can never really succeed on those terms. So he goes from whatever low-level nuisance stuff he and Jeff used to do, to something more serious, at some point gets the Prowler gear and starts taking jobs for Kingpin, enabling him to live on his own terms and live the lifestyle he wants. If people get hurt along the way, well, that's just how the world works. He was a bad guy, but he didn't strike me as "evil". He just made choices that took him down the path from random kid boosting cars or whatever to being the Prowler, and he has to live with that. Part of what makes Prowler work so well IMO is that up until "that scene", he's not conflicted. He never hesitates when Fisk orders him to kill someone, shows no remorse about chasing down and threatening what is obviously a child, etc. When he finally is put in a situation where there's an internal conflict, we can see him taking stock of everything that he has ever done and how it brought him to that point and being forced to break all the rules that those choices would've taught him were unbreakable if he wanted to keep what he'd earned. I think leaving his backstory vague works in the context of the movie being about Miles having to make choices and proactively go towards something. Aaron is one pole, Jeff is another, Peter A is one, Peter B is one, etc. He has to take his perceptions of those people and what their lives mean and the ramifications of the choices they made and figure out how to make his own choices and live with them. That's the lesson. It's not about pegging any one person as evil or irredeemable. Sleeveless posted:My headcanon is that the kind of black household that would create an authoritarian cop despite living in and presumably growing up in a lower class New York family was also super conservative in other ways and Aaron being estranged from Jefferson is because the family rejected him due to being gay, queer, or otherwise not traditionally cishet enough for them to accept him. Being rejected and feeling outside of society made it that much easier for him to fall into a crowd of baddies who were living that way for their own ends and made him feel less obligation to live under the laws and standards of the society that had rejected him. Aaron is even conspicuously shown without a love interest or partner and Prowler's entire getup has a bright purple motif and is generally more showy and flamboyant with its fluttering cape and huge collar and long claws and fluid exaggerated movements compared to how relatively simple and sleek the other villains and heroes are, you could totally take it as some sort of coding if you wanted to. I'm all for reading some queer subtext into the movie but this is....a lot.
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Jul 2, 2019 04:01
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Mat Cauthon posted:Peter A ... Peter B
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Jul 2, 2019 04:15
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Mat Cauthon posted:I'm all for reading some queer subtext into the movie but this is....a lot. Tbh if I'd read any characters in this movie as queer, first place would be Doc Ock and May. Second would be Gwen due to the punk air and the haircut - the second film is supposed to center on her and Miles, but to be honest I think I'd be a little disappointed if they got together romantically (as opposed to Miles finding someone from his won universe). If they're still playing with the alternate Spiders from the multiverse in the next movie, I wonder who else would appear. 2099 certainly seems likely at least.
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Jul 2, 2019 14:19
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Cythereal posted:If they're still playing with the alternate Spiders from the multiverse in the next movie, I wonder who else would appear. 2099 certainly seems likely at least. Did you see the after credits sequence?
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Jul 2, 2019 14:21
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VideoGames posted:Did you see the after credits sequence? That would be why I suggested 2099, yes.
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Jul 2, 2019 14:33
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Cythereal posted:That would be why I suggested 2099, yes. Awesome!  I suddenly thought you might not have experienced one of the best moments in the film.
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Jul 2, 2019 14:42
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Doc Ock and Aunt May were totally a thing and no one can convince me otherwise.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:25
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The thing about a vague backstory is it's ok to read it however works for you and that's good
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Jul 2, 2019 17:33
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skaianDestiny posted:Doc Ock and Aunt May were totally a thing and no one can convince me otherwise. Yes, I likewise had this reading. On the topic of paired characters and deep reads based on nothing, my headcanon was that May and Liv were both scientist/engineer types in this universe, and they were friends or possibly lovers at some point, but Liv was more willing to do Evil Science and May wouldn't go there. Hence the falling out.
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Jul 2, 2019 21:44
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May looks villain as gently caress in that scene where Miles goes back to the Spider-Lair and she's sippin' tea. Between that, the fact that she invents Spidey's gear ("Made them myself."), and the fact that she knows Ock as "Liv" really give credence to the possibility that she and Liv have a history together. They certainly have a lot in common. It's just that Liv is a murderous super-villain and May, well, May just beats the poo poo out of Tombstone with a baseball bat.
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Jul 2, 2019 21:57
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To be fair Tombstone is a complete loser in the movie.
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Jul 2, 2019 22:10
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I was just wondering what Solomon Grundy is doing there.
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Jul 2, 2019 23:30
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Xealot posted:Yes, I likewise had this reading. I’m not going to speculate on romantic relationships, but everything else is there in the film—so that much, at least, isn’t based on nothing. They most definitely ran in the same circles in the past; and it’s not just evidenced by May’s sarcastic delivery “oh great, it’s LIV” and her creation of the web-slingers for Miles. It’s also there in Doc Ock’s line/delivery of “cute place, very homey”. That line is delivered with such cattiness and derision you can’t help but hear “this is so quaint compared to what you used to be, poor thing.” The word “homey” too—it’s ‘home-like’, a subtle acknowledgement that it’s both more-than and simultaneously less-than a home: it’s a ruse, a cover, and an attempt at normalcy that Ock sees right through. It’s just really tight storytelling through small amounts of dialogue and I love it.
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Jul 2, 2019 23:39
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Iirc Parker Prime is meant to be one of the best possible versions of Peter as in most successful and basically Batman esque. Contrasts a lot with down on his luck Peter B Parker.
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Jul 3, 2019 01:30
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Iirc Parker Prime is meant to be one of the best possible versions of Peter as in most successful and basically Batman esque. Contrasts a lot with down on his luck Peter B Parker. Yeah, an "Ultimate Spider-Man", if you will. He got to be a hero without compromising his relationships or being dogged by money problems or bad PR. Spidey without the baggage that defines the classic version. PBP may be the actual classic comic Spider-Man allowed to age to his late thirties. I think universe 616 was even on the display for the interdimensional goober.
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Jul 3, 2019 01:53
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BizarroAzrael posted:Yeah, an "Ultimate Spider-Man", if you will. He got to be a hero without compromising his relationships or being dogged by money problems or bad PR. Spidey without the baggage that defines the classic version. PBP may be the actual classic comic Spider-Man allowed to age to his late thirties. I think universe 616 was even on the display for the interdimensional goober. 616 seems to mostly just be a nod to hardcore comic fans, neither Peter A or Peter B really resemble comics Peter that closely. Peter B notably is Jewish or at least had a Jewish wedding and profited off of licensing Spider-Man's likeness and merch (before the Spider restaurant went to hell  ).Also he blew up his marriage because he was scared of having kids while comics Peter sold his marriage to the devil 
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Jul 3, 2019 02:03
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The real puzzler for me is: do any of the alternate spider-people actually exist BEFORE Spiderman Prime is thrust into the beam and shattered? There’s some real (and typically debunked) quantum theory out that says “maybe not”, but it does lend itself better to the “spinoff” way the real comics were made.
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Jul 3, 2019 02:31
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wuffles posted:The real puzzler for me is: do any of the alternate spider-people actually exist BEFORE Spiderman Prime is thrust into the beam and shattered? There’s some real (and typically debunked) quantum theory out that says “maybe not”, but it does lend itself better to the “spinoff” way the real comics were made. They do, because Peter B and Gwen arrive weeks before the machine is activated. Also it’s probably for the best, but it’s a little strange that Peter never mentions that one of the people he’s teaming up with is a teen version of his dead first girlfriend.
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Jul 3, 2019 02:54
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:They do, because Peter B and Gwen arrive weeks before the machine is activated. They actually don’t. They “go back in time” wrt their own timeline—but here’s the niggle: if you read a bit on quantum theory, it’s technically possible for them to be spontaneously formed in that instant with “memories” of existing well before and without actually being alive.
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Jul 3, 2019 03:00
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Spider-Ham is Eternal.
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Jul 3, 2019 03:23
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Also it’s probably for the best, but it’s a little strange that Peter never mentions that one of the people he’s teaming up with is a teen version of his dead first girlfriend. I got the impression that this was not Peter B's first time in an alternate timeline or dimension, so he probably knew better.
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Jul 3, 2019 03:26
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:They do, because Peter B and Gwen arrive weeks before the machine is activated. Gwen might not have been a thing in Peter B's dimension. And even if she was, Gwen never tells the three alternative versions of Peter she runs into that her friend who died was yet another Peter Parker. I think they all realized that that would only complicate things and make everything even weirder. Until Peter B fucks it up at Kingpin's reception with MJ. That whole scene is really weird honestly in the context of the rest of the movie.
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Jul 3, 2019 04:22
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Zore posted:Gwen might not have been a thing in Peter B's dimension. It’s an incredibly economical story, and that’s one of the only places they’re able to work in some of how Peter B’s issues are working out and how he’s second-guessing his death wish.
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Jul 3, 2019 04:26
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:They do, because Peter B and Gwen arrive weeks before the machine is activated. Only Gwen arrived before the machine was activated (her backstory includes "I was blown into last week... literally"); Peter B arrives to see a billboard with Miles' Spider-Man's death being covered ("Also I was dead. And blond. And kind of perfect.") e: correct typos fordan fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jul 5, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 04:45
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wuffles posted:if you read a bit on quantum theory This is a fictional movie and your knowledge of comic book superheroes is roughly as applicable to the real world as what you think you know about quantum theory so please stop trying to rules lawyer something that is not and never was real in the first place.
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Jul 3, 2019 04:53
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