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Sinteres posted:Everyone being hard on Misato is kind of leaving out the part where if she doesn't manipulate him into getting into the robot he and everyone else dies as humanity is wiped out. Maybe there was a more competent approach someone who wasn't also personally broken could have taken to managing Shinji's trauma, but keeping him out of the robot wasn't really an option. Humanity being wiped out was the entire mission from SEELE to begin with dude E: this was also Gendo’s plan too. The whole “save humanity” thing was a false plan, they never intended to save humanity but tricked many people to work for them by lying and manipulating them or just plain withholding information. The mission is to kill the Angels right? Humanity was the 18th angel The REAL Goobusters fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 07:06
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They had to stop any old angel from gronking up their plans, what's not to get? If they wanted 3rd impact to happen so badly why did they make nerv to start with?
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Jul 3, 2019 07:40
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gotta please the bureaucrats somehow. there's a whole ton of off screen politics we don't get to see. e. also probably the Dead Sea Scrolls literally said they had to.
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Jul 3, 2019 07:56
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I'm doing a rewatch with the new Netflix dub and besides the weird "third children" business, my biggest gripe is how they replaced "mind" in the old dub with "heart", so it comes off way flakier. Like when the angel appears in ep 22, they say "it's engaging in psychological warfare" but Asuka is yelling "don't look into my heart", or Shinji ruminating about his heart instead of his mind in the finale, it's very off. Even the new subtitles still say "mind", so idgi.
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Jul 3, 2019 08:34
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Zeruel posted:They had to stop any old angel from gronking up their plans, what's not to get? If they wanted 3rd impact to happen so badly why did they make nerv to start with? Going to quote from the evageeks wiki here: quote:Eva-01 is treated by the higher-ups at Nerv HQ, namely Gendo Ikari, with a suspicious favoritism. Once all of the Angels are destroyed, Eva-01 becomes the key to both Gendo and Seele's scenarios for Third Impact, in which the former intends to use it as an "ark to save humanity from the nothingness of Third Impact," and the latter as a "medium" to Lilith, who has been rendered unusable by the loss of the original Spear of Longinus. The implication is that, by its unique creation, Eva-01 was intended as a "backup" for Lilith all along. Now quoting from Evageeks again: quote:It is assumed that the Angels' intention is to cause Third Impact and reclaim Earth from Lilith's children (Homo sapiens). Basically SEELE, Gendo, and the Angels all wanted to cause Third Impact for different reasons. They wanted to stop the angels so that they could go forward with their own version of Third Impact. SEELE and Gendo had different plans for it though.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:05
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What if they had just done Instrumentality way earlier and formed a giant orange juice elemental to beat up the angels for the hell of it.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:14
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BiggestOrangeTree posted:What if they had just done Instrumentality way earlier and formed a giant orange juice elemental to beat up the angels for the hell of it. Probably if they could they would have. Throughout the whole show they're talking about the schedule of the instrumentality project.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:44
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I suddenly remembered that back in the mid 2000s, a buddy of mine was starting to get into anime. He'd watched the Toonami lineups so I wound up bringing my Eva box set over to him and spent a couple weekends watching Eva + EoE with him. I vividly recall his demeanor changing once episode 19 or so hit, and his visceral "what the gently caress" to Rei's third eye business in EoE.
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Jul 3, 2019 09:48
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Shinji achieving full synchronization with 01 seemed to be a key (or the key?) element of Instrumentality. Sending him to fight angels would take him ever closer to that point. I assume that the angels destroying Lilith or reviving Adam would lead to a 2nd Impact style mass extinction event rather than instrumentality. I can't remember if they imply there were only a limited number of angels or if they would just keep attacking forever until they reached their goal - if it's the latter then Instrumentality makes sense as a way to avoid the otherwise inevitable apocalypse.
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Jul 3, 2019 10:29
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Irrespective of SEELE's machinations, which by proxy means that Nerv was never going to be an actual arm of protection for humanity, I feel like the majority of the problems of much of the cast could've been solved by just not having Gendo in charge or even involved at all. He never has anyone's interests but his own in mind and directly or indirectly causes unneeded trauma and discomfort to most obviously Shinji but also others like Ritsuko and probably Rei. In the end I'm not even sure why it had to be him, I don't think he ever actively performs any actions that are directly helpful to the nominal Nerv cause and not just furthering his personal goals instead. His mere presence and actions as-is actively make everything worse.
Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 12:30
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But then again, on some level, you also have to ask could anyone but Gendo have gotten this done, because that dude is obsessively driven beyond the point of any morality or consideration of others just to get us to the point of 3I. When you get to things like the Unit 03 incident and how that all shakes out, look at how every single other person in the room is vomiting or horrified over the actions and he's just cool as a cucumber because that's the plan, that's how this has to go down. He's also the sole individual looking at the Dead Sea Scrolls and going "mmm, this is more of a guidebook, not a hard recipe", and it's how he fucks SEELE in the end - everyone has the same script, but he improvises.
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Jul 3, 2019 12:43
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IT'S STILL BETTER THAN THE CURRENT PILOT, DO IT
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Jul 3, 2019 12:49
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Peacoffee posted:Having read more on Anno's past I'm inclined toward the takes I've seen that say it's less a mecha deconstruction and more tokusatsu with depression. Shin Godzilla seems like it was a real fun opportunity for him, considering. The main reason the word “deconstruction” gets used around Evangelion is because ADV put it on the back of the movie box and a bunch of fans picked it up to sound sophisticated.
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Jul 3, 2019 13:01
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The REAL Goobusters posted:E: this was also Gendo’s plan too. The whole “save humanity” thing was a false plan, they never intended to save humanity but tricked many people to work for them by lying and manipulating them or just plain withholding information. The mission is to kill the Angels right? Humanity was the 18th angel this doesn't really jive with the multiple private discussions Gendo and Fuyutsuki have with nobody else listening Irony Be My Shield posted:Shinji achieving full synchronization with 01 seemed to be a key (or the key?) element of Instrumentality. Sending him to fight angels would take him ever closer to that point. sort of -- maybe under Gendo's plan and obviously under Yui's, but SEELE's plan was to use Lilith, not Unit-01, as the focal point of Instrumentality, and they only grudgingly switched to Unit-01 as a backup after Gendo had Rei yeet the Lance of Longinus to the moon Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 16:56
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https://twitter.com/strongest_human/status/1146200729524342784?s=19 whoa again
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Jul 3, 2019 17:09
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Its not so much that saving humanity is a false plan as, SEELE and Gendo's idea of what that means is v. different than what Misato and the NERV staff think.
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Jul 3, 2019 18:03
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Seele's leader used tech to keep him alive long enough for instrumentality to make him "immortal." They definitely had differences of opinion on saving.
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Jul 3, 2019 18:57
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It’s no Mac Photoshop 3.0 readme.txt but that’s still good.
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Jul 3, 2019 18:57
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Thank you, Amanda.  https://twitter.com/amandawinnlee/status/1145280024460685318
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Jul 3, 2019 20:01
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I would think fanboys would love a literal translation. It’s literally what they want, but guess what is sucks
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Jul 3, 2019 20:03
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Midjack posted:It’s no Mac Photoshop 3.0 readme.txt but that’s still good. I think that same article was barely modified and reused as the filler text in EoE.  I still giggle at this every time on the HD version. I've never translated the binary though.
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Jul 3, 2019 20:08
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Mermaid Autopsy posted:Thank you, Amanda. I mean the old translation was "liberal" to the point of getting plot points mixed up, and the new one is bad and overly literal. I appreciate that she's had to be the face of two bad translations for decades and that has to wear on a person, but the fanboys are right even if the histrionic response to her personally is unwarranted. (For what it's worth, the old one's still better; most of the screw-ups are Adam / Lilith confusion type stuff that doesn't really impair your understanding of the series that much.) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 22:10
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Given the IRL crap she went through I’m not gonna begrudge her being pissed at where she finds herself in this whole clusterfuck.
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Jul 3, 2019 22:23
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Amanda Winn Lee spends most of her day dealing with shithead Vic Mignona sycophants and sperglords from Evageeks who have a 23 year old vendetta. She deserves your unconditional respect.
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Jul 3, 2019 22:34
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My new life goal is to get high with Amanda Winn Lee.
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Jul 3, 2019 23:15
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The fact that Weed Rei is an irl thing is endlessly delightful.
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Jul 3, 2019 23:50
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Weed Yukiko is even better. AWL rules.
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Jul 3, 2019 23:52
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"but the fanboys are right" is never a statement one should say
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Jul 3, 2019 23:54
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You're missing the tweets where she goes "I also voice yukiko who you fap do. You can't escape me!" Fan: This is why I use subs Winlee: I did the subs, too!
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Jul 4, 2019 00:04
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You shouldn't harass AWL via Twitter or any other medium but that post sets up a dumb false dichotomy. It's clearly possible for a translation to be bad due to missing plot points and completely mishandling the tone, or for a translation to be bad due to clunky overly literal lines and flat direction.
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Jul 4, 2019 00:09
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Irony Be My Shield posted:You shouldn't harass AWL via Twitter or any other medium but that post sets up a dumb false dichotomy. It's clearly possible for a translation to be bad due to missing plot points and completely mishandling the tone, or for a translation to be bad due to clunky overly literal lines and flat direction. The original dub is pretty bad (although still better than the new translation) but I'm willing to give them a lot more leeway because translations back then were tiny teams working on shoestring budgets and tight schedules with no no established pool of voice talent. Bad dubs today usually require one or more people actively loving up.
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Jul 4, 2019 00:18
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Translations were similarly dire, with little to no direction from the creators or parent company. "Hey what's the plot?" 'LOL Figure it out' "K... Uh... well time to fill in some blanks!"
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Jul 4, 2019 00:26
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I actually haven’t really seen a critique of the Netflix dub that has not been, in substance “it’s different from the old translation (that I also complained about)”. I think I’m with ADR lady on this one: nerds are impossible to please.
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Jul 4, 2019 00:33
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what about "worthy of his grace" instead of "loved me" that's pretty outright bad
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Jul 4, 2019 00:38
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What? People have been complaining about it being literal and clunky in this very thread
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Jul 4, 2019 00:40
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there are a few notable bad changes but it's mostly fine. source: i watched it and enjoyed it.
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Jul 4, 2019 00:44
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first draft of the translation called it Sega Genesis Evangelion.
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Jul 4, 2019 00:45
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kaworu originally said "doki doki panic"
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Jul 4, 2019 00:46
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IronicDongz posted:what about "worthy of his grace" instead of "loved me" It has a kind of religious element to it that’s fairly interesting. I would have left it as is because I don’t want to straight-wash and Shinji’s sexual confusion is important. That said, consider that in Christianity “God loves me” and “I am worthy of grace” are pretty much equivalent in meaning.
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Jul 4, 2019 00:49
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Kaowru is a Jesus figure. Jesus is famous for loving people, not liking them. This doesn't seem especially hard to me.
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Jul 4, 2019 00:50
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