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You don’t have to back out and swap. Just pick the item, and a message will pop up to hand over, and you’ll see the stats that way. Still awkward but you’re not backing out all the time.
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Jun 22, 2019 16:26
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Asnorban posted:I'm 3 or 4 hours in to Trials of Mana for the first time and grasping the controls and combat is proving incredibly difficult. I spent probably 15 minutes last night trying to figure out exactly how to switch characters beyond holding L/R to temporarily control, how to equip items on other characters, how to cast spells with other characters, etc. Feel dumb in hindsight, given that it's mostly that I forgot the select button existed and didn't try it for a very long time. It's a bit more satisfying to control Hawke at this point, since his double attack let's you build up his special attack gauge faster. Combat is relatively simple at the beginning of the game, you will get more abilities once you class change. Due to class change setting your stats, it's near impossible to long term screw yourself by leveling up in a wrong way. But just remember that it's basically always correct to go with strength if you're playing a non-mage (Charlotte, Angela), while it's either spirit (Charlie) or intellect (Angela) for your casters. And it's always good to take stamina if you maxed out your offensive stats. It get's more complicated after you change classes, since Hawke for example needs certain dexterity values to learn his spell, while Lise learns new spells with spirit. Since you already have to dream combo of Hawke and Lise, take care to class change Lise into her Light Class (first of the two options you get when you can choose which classes to change into), and to change Hawke into his Dark Class (second option). It's super hosed up that they named the translated SD3 and the remake the same. It's easy to infer from context that Phantasium was writing about the remake, and Asnorban about SD3, but it's still dumb.
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Jun 22, 2019 16:44
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Asnorban posted:I'm 3 or 4 hours in to Trials of Mana for the first time and grasping the controls and combat is proving incredibly difficult. I spent probably 15 minutes last night trying to figure out exactly how to switch characters beyond holding L/R to temporarily control, how to equip items on other characters, how to cast spells with other characters, etc. Feel dumb in hindsight, given that it's mostly that I forgot the select button existed and didn't try it for a very long time. 1. Theres no need. Combat is straightforward. Pressing L or R makes you change characters, including during the item/spell rings. 2. Thats the gist of it. Spacing and planning actually helps, as you do get more meter for hitting multiple enemies and can make some of their attacks whiff. Both Riesz and Hawkeye get spells when they class chance which is lvl 18. 3. Just with Hawkeye really, he needs agility to get his spells on class change. Charlotte may need some spirit for her spells but she should be raising that anyways to improve healing and holy ball. Stats get capped of their previous class when the change, so theres leeway on what you want to put. 4. for equipment? Shouldn't have to, it should show what difference is when you select yes the 1st time when it asks if another memeber wants it.
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Jun 23, 2019 02:27
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There's a class guide that isn't on gamefaqs with the stat requirements for learning spells http://www.angelfire.com/realm/dragonscholar/files/Seiken3Classes.txt
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Jun 23, 2019 13:42
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Shoenin posted:4. for equipment? Shouldn't have to, it should show what difference is when you select yes the 1st time when it asks if another memeber wants it. You'll have to L and R to the other characters to see what the difference in stats would be. Just buy the most expensive armour/weapons you can whenever they come up. You'll be doing it loads. I'm going to say the SD3 equipment screen is far more loving faff to sort out than it was in SoM. I hope that in the remake they make it a bit more modern. I'm 10 hours in and not too far (in terms of story) off finishing the game and I'd really forgotten the 8 Benevedon bit. It's really tedious. I'd forgotten that there's no way (at least for my party of Angela/Duran/Lise) to see the health of a boss so fights feel like they're going on for ages. Also quite annoying that everything has new names in this translation so finding guides isn't easy. I just did the fight on the back of flammie and it took so loving long, Christ they're proper hp sponges at the end Taear fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Jun 27, 2019 |
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Jun 27, 2019 11:28
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The main thing with that last fight you mentioned is that every time the perspective changes, the battle gets re-initiated, resetting all buffs and debuffs. The best way to quickly (and I mean QUICKLY) end that battle is to put Stone Saber on Duran and Riesz and buff their strength (in that order, or the saber spell will cancel the strength buff) and if Riesz is a Rune Maiden, lower the boss' defense. With strength buffs and sabers, you'll be chewing through the boss' HP so quickly it'll barely have time to attack.
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Jun 27, 2019 12:51
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Erpy posted:The main thing with that last fight you mentioned is that every time the perspective changes, the battle gets re-initiated, resetting all buffs and debuffs. The best way to quickly (and I mean QUICKLY) end that battle is to put Stone Saber on Duran and Riesz and buff their strength (in that order, or the saber spell will cancel the strength buff) and if Riesz is a Rune Maiden, lower the boss' defense. With strength buffs and sabers, you'll be chewing through the boss' HP so quickly it'll barely have time to attack. I just cast dark force over and over. Duran is a knight. No sabre spells. I was doing 500 per hit and recasting my buffs and it still felt like ages, I really want a health bar!
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Jun 27, 2019 12:55
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Taear posted:I just cast dark force over and over. Duran is a knight. No sabre spells. You don't need to be a Gladiator in order to have primary elemental saber spells. Just buy a handful of bear claws at the Night Market in Beiser that mimic the effect of Stone Saber. Duran and Riesz will easily be doing between 200 and 300 points each normal attack with that on and you can still throw in attack magic to pile on some additional damage. That boss' HP was as high as it was because of how easy it is to bust it down with the right tools.
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Jun 27, 2019 15:07
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Taear posted:You'll have to L and R to the other characters to see what the difference in stats would be. You can select the item anyway and you'll get prompted to hand off to another character, it's still awkward but easier
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Jun 27, 2019 18:31
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acksplode posted:You can select the item anyway and you'll get prompted to hand off to another character, it's still awkward but easier Yea you can obviously but they want to see the stats
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Jun 27, 2019 19:49
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No new characters for the Trials remake, multiple endings still in. https://www.siliconera.com/2019/06/27/there-will-be-multiple-trials-of-mana-remake-endings-but-only-the-same-six-characters/ I don't think either of those is surprising but I remember people asking.
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Jun 27, 2019 19:50
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Erpy posted:You don't need to be a Gladiator in order to have primary elemental saber spells. Just buy a handful of bear claws at the Night Market in Beiser that mimic the effect of Stone Saber. Duran and Riesz will easily be doing between 200 and 300 points each normal attack with that on and you can still throw in attack magic to pile on some additional damage. That boss' HP was as high as it was because of how easy it is to bust it down with the right tools. Having it high is boring and poo poo because the majority of people aren't doing that. Duran and Lise aren't doing anything and 90% of the damage is me
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Jun 27, 2019 19:52
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Taear posted:Yea you can obviously but they want to see the stats Handing off will show you the stat difference from equipping the item
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Jun 27, 2019 20:15
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Phantasium posted:No new characters for the Trials remake, multiple endings still in. Yeah, there's no way they'd simply be able to add additional characters just like that since there were only 6 major kingdoms involved in the conflicts of the game and each of the characters hails from either one of the aggressors or the besieged realms. Not to mention there's plenty of replay value already with the combinations of characters and classes. Taear posted:Having it high is boring and poo poo because the majority of people aren't doing that. If the majority of people aren't taking advantage of the Night Market then the majority of people are simply playing the game wrong. (though I'm not sure if you can back that statement up to begin with) Since any combination of characters is supposed to be viable, including teams without buff-bots, healers or spell-casters, the Night Market gives you the tools to fill up the holes in your repertoire. Without Poto Oils, a healer-less team will stand a good chance of losing a damage race against later bosses due to running out of recovery items and without buffing items, later bosses tend to inflict too much damage (or take too little) for your team to defeat them in a reasonable amount of time. Some of it can be partially compensated with grinding, but that's really not necessary and Trials also has some anti-grinding mechanisms in play in the form of various stat-caps. Taear posted:Duran and Lise aren't doing anything and 90% of the damage is me Sounds to me like your boss battling strategy is just spamming offensive spells without even pressing the A-button at the start of the fight to signal your AI allies to start attacking. That strategy worked in Secret of Mana, but it's the single-most inefficient and sub-optimal way of beating them in Trials. First of all, Angela's not mandatory, so the game doesn't even count on a spellcaster in your party, magic use pauses the action so you can't chain-cast it anymore and some bosses and stronger enemies go Barbatos Goetia on your rear end the moment you start trying to nuke them down with spells or high-level techs. The main source of damage in Trials against bosses is generally buffed-up physicals, with or without sabers depending on whether the enemy has an elemental weakness and magic's mostly there to quickly nuke stronger randoms or to act as a source of secondary damage against bosses with elemental weaknesses and without hair-trigger counter tempers. So yeah, it's not the game this time, it's you. 
Erpy fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jun 27, 2019 |
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Jun 27, 2019 21:16
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the black market is definitely the least obvious key mechanic in the game. any party can be hitting like an end-game party from the moment you get to byzel if you get the strength scales and a decent claw collection worth noting that this dramatically raises the value of debuffs in your party because the debuff-inflicting items can't be purchased. notably this makes dark hawk, dark lise, and dark charlotte better than you might think at first glance Jazerus fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jun 27, 2019 |
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Jun 27, 2019 22:59
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Phantasium posted:No new characters for the Trials remake, multiple endings still in. neat. I think only Angela had a different ending if you took her route or not. Everyone else remained the same I think.
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Jun 28, 2019 00:44
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Jazerus posted:the black market is definitely the least obvious key mechanic in the game. any party can be hitting like an end-game party from the moment you get to byzel if you get the strength scales and a decent claw collection True, although to be honest Dark - Light Charlotte won't be getting any debuffs until the game is nearly over. Black Curse is learned at like level 43 or so, assuming you promote as soon as possible. Shoenin posted:neat. I think only Angela had a different ending if you took her route or not. Everyone else remained the same I think. I think Kevin had a variation too, since doing Kevin's route allows you to confront the Beast King half-way throughout the game rather than have it be part of the ending.
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Jun 28, 2019 05:58
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Erpy posted:
Thanks for being massively condesdending. I've played it before and I am hitting them but specifically with the Flammie battle Duran and Lise weren't doing anything for most of the fight. Not the other bosses, just that one. I just want to know the health of the enemy so I know how long it's going to take to kill. That's it. I don't see why that's a problem. Or see a guide with the health in like I could with SoM. It's not that the fight is hard, I'm just really bored of it after 5 minutes of not knowing how long there is left of it to do. Taear fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Jun 28, 2019 |
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Jun 28, 2019 09:31
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So I would up making a team of Rieze, Hawkeye and Angela for my first playthrough in Trials, and i've only just discovered that they won't get healing magic ever. How do I work with this, and what's a good A.I setup for them?
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Jul 4, 2019 22:59
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Emperordaein posted:So I would up making a team of Rieze, Hawkeye and Angela for my first playthrough in Trials, and i've only just discovered that they won't get healing magic ever. How do I work with this, and what's a good A.I setup for them? Light Riesz (buffs!) and dark Hawkeye (debuffs!) are an amazing combo; there's really not a bad 3rd party member for them. Though my personal opinion is that rune master would be Angela's best class regardless.
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Jul 4, 2019 23:34
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Healing magic is overrated. Just buy a bunch of Poto Oils from the Black Market for partywide Heal Light. Item use is faster than spellcasting anyway. Have the character with the highest Spirit/Piety be your Poto Oil thrower.
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Jul 4, 2019 23:36
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Like others said, buy Poto Oil items at the Night Market in Beiser. They can be used as a multi-target Heal Light, so you have 9 multi-heals per boss battle. In addition to that, make sure you're always stocked with candies, chocolate and honey. Personally, I'd go with Riesz becoming a Valkyrie and then a Star Lancer. She'll (eventually) learn multi-target stat-up spells meaning you can leave stat-up items out of your item ring in order to keep room for healing items and she'll get a powerful multi-target summon that mutes monsters on top of that. Make Hawkeye a Ninja and then a Nightblade. He'll learn elemental single-target stat-down spells and eventually a single-target muting spell for pesky elite mooks and Weapon Slap to shave 20% off a boss' HP right off the bat, which avoids prolonging the fight long enough for you to run out of items. Angela is probably best turned into a Sorceress and then an Archmage. Most of Angela's final classes (except for the Rune Seer) are somewhat similar, but Archmage (and Sorceress earlier) get the highest Spirit stat, which determines how much HP your multi-heal items restore, so Angela should be your item user. A stat-upped team fighting a stat-downed boss does so much damage and takes so little overall that boss battles should be over long before you run out of healing items. Regarding AI-settings, the AI itself doesn't matter that much, just remember that certain strong enemies (and certain bosses) counter magic or high level techs so if you're up against those foes, you can disable your AI allies' use of high level techs and avoid provoking damaging counters.
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Jul 5, 2019 06:20
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Gotten a good way into Trials of Mana. Started with Hawkeye, recruited Carlie and then Riesz. In the process of retaking Laurent with a class-changed party (Dark, Dark, and Light if you're wondering, and given the abilities of the characters, I should probably base my party around casting). Riesz is going to get Star Lancer as her final class and Carlie will be going the Necromancer route (not going Warlock because I'm buying Specter's Eyes at the night market). Either of Hawkeye's final classes sound fun to me, whether multi-target nuker as Ninja-Master or single-target destruction god as Nightblade.
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Jul 5, 2019 21:03
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I'd argue that Antimagic isn't really why you'd pick the Warlock, but rather because the Warlock has higher strength and more potent offensive casting power (due to Putrid Breath and the Great Demon summon) than the Necromancer. (whose main draw, the omni-debuffing spell Black Curse, is rendered a waste because you already have a dark Hawkeye in your group who can handle all the debuffing needs you'll ever need whether he ends up as Ninja Master or Nightblade)
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Jul 5, 2019 21:52
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Hm... so Hawk's jutsus other than Shuriken are keyed to Intelligence for attack despite being keyed to Dexterity as the prerequisite for learning them. Interesting.
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Jul 7, 2019 22:43
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Folt The Bolt posted:Hm... so Hawk's jutsus other than Shuriken are keyed to Intelligence for attack despite being keyed to Dexterity as the prerequisite for learning them. Interesting. hawk definitely has the worst case of multiple stat dependence out of anybody, since he needs dex, int, and str for full effectiveness as a hybrid melee/caster not that it's a big deal
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Jul 7, 2019 22:54
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Jazerus posted:hawk definitely has the worst case of multiple stat dependence out of anybody, since he needs dex, int, and str for full effectiveness as a hybrid melee/caster For now, I'm gearing him towards being a caster, since I just need to open with his Fire Jutsu. I'll transition him down to more of a hybrid once I get the final class change.
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Jul 7, 2019 23:17
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It's not that big of a deal since Hawkeye has fairly stats, particularly the classes most dependent on those multiple factors. And if you primarily use ninja skills as debuffing tools, rather than offensive magic, the intelligence stat isn't even really relevant since the debuff effect is always the same no matter how high or low your intelligence.
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Jul 8, 2019 05:49
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Erpy posted:It's not that big of a deal since Hawkeye has fairly stats, particularly the classes most dependent on those multiple factors. And if you primarily use ninja skills as debuffing tools, rather than offensive magic, the intelligence stat isn't even really relevant since the debuff effect is always the same no matter how high or low your intelligence. I use them as both, since he's actually dealing some really good damage with them now. Also took down my first Benevodon. Dangaard is nothing against the power of jutsus! 
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Jul 8, 2019 13:15
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I'm really interested to see the Benevedons in the remake, because the sequence with them has definitely made me just give the game up. I hope they jazz it up, make it less "land here, run through a bit you've sort of done before, fight a boss" repeat x8
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Jul 8, 2019 17:54
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The Benevodon of Air is the only boss where you had to go through a dungeon you visisted before. Okay, you were in the Fire Dungeon before, but 80% of the place was locked off the last time you were there. All the other places are new. I don't really see them making a radical departure from the "visit dungeon, fight boss"-theme since that's literally what the whole sequence is about. (and it's not too different from the gathering of the last 4 spirits in the previous act either)
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Jul 8, 2019 18:08
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Been playing SD3 with Kevin, Charlotte, and Riesz. Finally ate my first wipe when a Shadow Zed transformed into Kevin and used his L3 tech back to back doing 500+ damage twice to everybody. Mirage Palace was such a cakewalk without any knights, ninjas, or werewolves but that's the SD3 I remember!  Taear posted:I'm really interested to see the Benevedons in the remake, because the sequence with them has definitely made me just give the game up. Yeah it's a huge segment where any sort of narrative just suddenly grinds to a halt. I hope they do something with it, even if it's just some fluff world building or adding character moments.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:13
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I hope they update some of the classes to be more unique. The romhack Sin of Mana is awesome for fixing the classes to be much better. Unfortunately it struggles at endgame because of fundamental problems with the game engine once Praetorius fixed the bugs.
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Jul 8, 2019 20:02
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What was wrong a the calling them Mana Beasts? What the heck is a Benevedon?
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Jul 8, 2019 20:28
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god beast or bust
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Jul 8, 2019 20:42
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Reality Sinner posted:What was wrong a the calling them Mana Beasts? What the heck is a Benevedon? It's the official name that was localized back in Legend of Mana, or Sword of Mana. I forget which
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Jul 8, 2019 20:50
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Children Of Mana called them Benevodons so the evil fused versions could be called Malevodons.
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Jul 8, 2019 20:54
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I always felt like the night market items were almost like cheating since using them invalidates a major dimension of the class choices. If you don’t have a healer, you can make up for it with moon saber or single target healing items. Of course anyone can play the game however they want — for me, ready access to those items makes my choices unimportant and therefore makes the game less fun. I’d be fine using them as rare consumables, though. My last play through was with wanderer Hawk, vanadys Lise and necromancer Carly. That made for a really slow, painful mid game, but they stomped the last couple dungeons hilariously quickly. At the start of every fight, Hawk instantly charged Lise’s level 3 special, while Lise buffed her strength, then wiped the screen before the enemies could even move. Bosses were a little slower, but even wanderer does competent damage with buffs and debuffs and has access to lunatic to shave 20% HP off the boss right at the start, while Carly makes it impossible to die and can deal solid damage with ghost. Vanadys is no slouch as a physical attacker, either — easily stronger than wanderer before buffs and debuffs. If crits weren’t broken, the party would be even more powerful because of wanderer’s energy ball. Wanderer is definitely my favorite class. No overwhelming strengths, just this huge bag of weird tricks that can be applied to any situation. The one thing I really hope for from the remake is that they accelerate class changes so you play around 40% of the game in your final classes.
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Jul 10, 2019 04:48
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Heithinn Grasida posted:I always felt like the night market items were almost like cheating since using them invalidates a major dimension of the class choices. If you don’t have a healer, you can make up for it with moon saber or single target healing items. Of course anyone can play the game however they want — for me, ready access to those items makes my choices unimportant and therefore makes the game less fun. I’d be fine using them as rare consumables, though. Ideal progression would be first class change around the Wind Stone and the final class progression around the time the Benevodons are released.
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Jul 10, 2019 18:17
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| # ? May 23, 2024 12:57 |
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Well, just finished getting the platinum in the Secret of Mana remake and then decided to load up SoM on my Switch and it is kinda crazy how much better the original game plays in every little way. Just absolutely everything is faster, weapons somehow feel more distinct, enemies are way more threatening, and the hitboxes/animations for things work better with how everything flows when it is in 2D instead of all being in 3D (enemies on stairs are no longer a pain to hit). Like, I wouldn't call the remake outright a bad game (outside of the remixes, which at least you can choose to play with the original OST which is still pretty great), but man it is just worse than the original in like pretty much every way outside of menus and some translation corrections. Also loading up the original really reminded me just how fantastic the games sprite work still is.
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Jul 18, 2019 14:49
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