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Years ago I worked at a high-end AV store that had a cinema room with all the top of the line Klipsch surround and HD/plasma stuff. They had three movies they played in there to show off everything: Saving Private Ryan, Jurassic Park, and Ronin.
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Jul 6, 2019 17:14
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No way, I loved that movie when it came out. That was a long time ago though, no wonder I don't remember. I looked up his more recent stuff and I haven't seen any of it but that's not surprising as I barely watch anything anymore.
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Jul 6, 2019 20:43
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I still want to eat Fallout Mentats.  +  https://www.etsy.com/market/mentats results may vary.
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Jul 6, 2019 22:32
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priznat posted:You have to have seen him before in films, he’s in a ton of stuff. Breaking the Waves Melancholia The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo Dogville Nymphomaniac Insomnia Good Will Hunting Dancer in the Dark Deep Blue Sea!!!!!
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Jul 6, 2019 22:58
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Ok, I just finished reading Heretics of Dune for the first time, having gotten through God-Emperor both many years ago and in my ongoing rereading. Umm, Frank goes a little off the track in this one, doesn't he? Starts to read like a Frank Miller script with all the mention of "whores". And the non-unionized version of the Weirding Way turns out to be space kegels??????? I was certain that the weird thing with Miles Teg was the T-probe was a low-rent matrix so you could get someone to reveal their secrets through playing them out in VR but OTOH finding out this special form of super-Mentatism just relies on Atreides blood being hooked to the right sort of torture machine and bam you've got Spider-Sense, plus all the random encounters just seemed really random. Oh well. Dare I read Chapterhouse? It's waiting for me on my nightstand, but ugh I may have to take a break after this pile of slig poo poo.
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Jul 6, 2019 23:27
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Unfortunately you need to power through the first six lovely books so books 7 and 8 (AKA the good ones) make sense, so yes, read Chapterhouse
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Jul 6, 2019 23:44
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A little obvious imo
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Jul 6, 2019 23:47
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Heretics and Chapterhouse were written at the end of his life, and honestly Old Man Frank was slipping in quality. Heretics isn't very good, but Chapterhouse is better, aside from a really weird side plot involving Jews In Space. I haven't finished the book, the Jews In Space stuff is only weird so far, not problematic or  or whatever, but it's still really weird and out of place.Overall the book is better than heretics to the point i've listened, about 33% of the way through.
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Jul 6, 2019 23:57
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Riot Bimbo posted:Heretics and Chapterhouse were written at the end of his life, and honestly Old Man Frank was slipping in quality. Heretics isn't very good, but Chapterhouse is better, aside from a really weird side plot involving Jews In Space. I haven't finished the book, the Jews In Space stuff is only weird so far, not problematic or I've seen the Jews in Chapterhouse referenced before in this thread and it always makes me think of the History of the World Part One clip at the end with the voiceover "Jeeewwwwsssss....iiinnnn....sppppaaaaaacccceeeee" as a giant starship shaped as the Mogen David flies by.
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Jul 7, 2019 00:04
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It's been more than a decade since I read Chapterhouse, so the only memory I have about the subplot with the Jews is thinking "Oh, interesting, the Jews are still around." What's weird about it?
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Jul 7, 2019 00:05
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I guess in the fictional universe where every other religion is invented from whole cloth or combinations of modern faiths, the fact that there are still Jews, that they're culturally stagnant and unchanged, and still basically having to flee from pogroms and stuff feels, kinda anachronistic? it's just really odd as a plot point to me.
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Jul 7, 2019 00:11
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Like, I guess Judaism kinda changes more than most religions, and has gone through a bunch of different versions since we began writing things down, so the fact that they're essentially as they were in the 20th century feels really drat uninspired among other things.
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Jul 7, 2019 00:12
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Communist Walrus posted:Unfortunately you need to power through the first six lovely books so books 7 and 8 (AKA the good ones) make sense, so yes, read Chapterhouse Womp womp sebmojo posted:A little obvious imo 
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Jul 7, 2019 01:33
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Riot Bimbo posted:I guess in the fictional universe where every other religion is invented from whole cloth or combinations of modern faiths, the fact that there are still Jews, that they're culturally stagnant and unchanged, and still basically having to flee from pogroms and stuff feels, kinda anachronistic? it's just really odd as a plot point to me. Also isn't it a big part of the origins of the saga (like, pre-Butlerian Jihad) that most of Earth's major religions held a treaty and amalgamated? That's how we have stuff like the OC Bible and Zensunni and poo poo. I don't recall any specific mention that "uh yeah the Jews just stayed Jews."
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Jul 7, 2019 04:11
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Mister Speaker posted:Also isn't it a big part of the origins of the saga (like, pre-Butlerian Jihad) that most of Earth's major religions held a treaty and amalgamated? That's how we have stuff like the OC Bible and Zensunni and poo poo. I don't recall any specific mention that "uh yeah the Jews just stayed Jews."
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Jul 7, 2019 04:27
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WW@DAD
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Jul 7, 2019 04:32
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Remember Frank grew up in a time when Jews were still shaking off their separation from gentile society in what industries they worked in etc, and the BG archives expressly say "these guys were distrusted because they didn't integrate so they went underground to survive". It seems a little weird to us now but it was totally a thing even in the 70's and early 80's (think diamond industry etc) so I can forgive Frank for that. I really like Heretics and Chapterhouse portrayal of "latter day Bene Gesserit" society, so I don't notice the problems with the books as much.
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Jul 7, 2019 07:49
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kiimo posted:Reminder that David Dastmalchian is my childhood friend and this is just blowing my mind so much Dastmalchian has such a weird vibe that he can look creepy even while clearly having the time of his life.
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Jul 7, 2019 07:56
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I don't really know where the Rabbi's plot was going (except that his daughter had become a BG without their training) but it wasn't really off-putting to me. Not sure why some people focus on it, since it's like only three pages interspersed within 500 or so. To me, it just seemed like another little interesting tangent about people surviving against the odds. Around the same point in the book we are told how the Harkonnen family met it's ultimate demise while trying to hide themselves from enemies - Leto? - by sequestering themselves in a giant compound built in to a mountain. Teg's friend discovers it as a child and although there's plenty of signs that people lived there, there are no people, living or dead. It's almost as though the people realized their "line" was done for and just filtered out into the world and left their tradition behind them. A fitting end for them, really - all those centuries jockeying for power, only to be forgotten. It's an interesting contrast, if not deliberate.
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Jul 7, 2019 08:17
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I'd rather die from space kegels than from putting my hand in the box. gently caress you, mom! BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Jul 7, 2019 |
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Jul 7, 2019 10:39
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phasmid posted:I don't really know where the Rabbi's plot was going (except that his daughter had become a BG without their training) but it wasn't really off-putting to me. Not sure why some people focus on it, since it's like only three pages interspersed within 500 or so. To me, it just seemed like another little interesting tangent about people surviving against the odds. Wasn't that the no-globe in Heretics? That always confused me, since I would've thought that Geidi Prime was the first stop on the jihad train, and no-globes were developed during the Tyrants' reign using the last of the Harkonnen wealth.
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Jul 7, 2019 11:09
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I'll be honest, the Jews In Space subplot completely went under the radar for all my re-reads up until recently, but then after it was discussed in this thread I paid more attention to it - and it struck me as weird that the Race Conciousness To Avoid Stagnation, that is so unavoidable that someone who can see the future and becomes the most powerful person in the universe cannot avoid it, doesn't affect them in the least. Then again, that's hardly the only subplot that Frank fails to bring to fruition. phasmid posted:Around the same point in the book we are told how the Harkonnen family met it's ultimate demise while trying to hide themselves from enemies - Leto? - by sequestering themselves in a giant compound built in to a mountain. Teg's friend discovers it as a child and although there's plenty of signs that people lived there, there are no people, living or dead. It's almost as though the people realized their "line" was done for and just filtered out into the world and left their tradition behind them. A fitting end for them, really - all those centuries jockeying for power, only to be forgotten. Mister Speaker posted:Also isn't it a big part of the origins of the saga (like, pre-Butlerian Jihad) that most of Earth's major religions held a treaty and amalgamated? That's how we have stuff like the OC Bible and Zensunni and poo poo. I don't recall any specific mention that "uh yeah the Jews just stayed Jews." Also, does anyone have an explanation of the Bronzo of Ix framing device that Dune Messiah starts out with? It's completely left-field, compared with the rest of the books which if I recall correctly seem to have Bene Gesserit using other memory as a framing device
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Jul 7, 2019 12:13
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The point of Bronso is to set the tone. It basically completely slaps in the face the naive hero’s journey reading of Dune that a lot of people did (in fact doing this increasingly unsubtly is the point of the rest of the series) and there’s nothing more likely to do that than “btw, Muad’dib’s empire has a secret police of raving theocrats, here’s one torturing a liberal historian to death for faithfully reporting the events of the first book, Paul has no idea what’s going on and probably doesn’t care”. It needs to be someone other than the BGs getting tortured because the BGs, as is pointed out within the scene itself, wouldn’t have a liberal historian willing to get martyred for the truth. They’d go onside with the god empire and work to subvert it to their ends, not stand in its path and get steamrolled.
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Jul 7, 2019 12:33
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I own two versions of Messiah and neither of them includes that Bronso bit. I'd say it's an issue with my copy, one one of them is on Kindle and the other is a recent printing. Apparently, it's well known that the Bronso stuff is just missing from some versions.
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Jul 7, 2019 13:15
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Weird, my Kindle version has it.
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Jul 7, 2019 13:35
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Every time I dip into this thread I'm reminded that I would really enjoy rereading the original series. Except for the first one and God Emperor, those 2 paperbacks I still have. I also need to find this encyclopedia every one keeps mentioning. Great thread.
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Jul 7, 2019 16:13
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"Burzmali hurried her out of the view of the brooding hypnobong proprietor." - Frank Herbert, Heretics of Dune
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Jul 7, 2019 16:18
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It's funny to how I've had people telling me they absolutely hated Messiah for "ruining" the story of their hero Paul. We need a version of this image but for Dune, talk about missing the point:
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Jul 7, 2019 16:19
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DebonaireD posted:brooding hypnobong proprietor
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Jul 7, 2019 16:20
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:I own two versions of Messiah and neither of them includes that Bronso bit. I'd say it's an issue with my copy, one one of them is on Kindle and the other is a recent printing. Apparently, it's well known that the Bronso stuff is just missing from some versions. What the gently caress.
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Jul 7, 2019 20:58
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tight aspirations posted:Wasn't that the no-globe in Heretics? That always confused me, since I would've thought that Geidi Prime was the first stop on the jihad train, and no-globes were developed during the Tyrants' reign using the last of the Harkonnen wealth. They also could've run to Tupile and then come back later, only to still get poo poo on
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Jul 7, 2019 21:49
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skasion posted:The point of Bronso is to set the tone. It basically completely slaps in the face the naive hero’s journey reading of Dune that a lot of people did (in fact doing this increasingly unsubtly is the point of the rest of the series) and there’s nothing more likely to do that than “btw, Muad’dib’s empire has a secret police of raving theocrats, here’s one torturing a liberal historian to death for faithfully reporting the events of the first book, Paul has no idea what’s going on and probably doesn’t care”.  for Villanueve's take on Dune because BR2049 was also about subverting the precepts of the monomyth and it ruled.
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Jul 7, 2019 23:43
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Did Frank have any ghostwriters help him with the books? I'm sitting here at work with my copy of Children and a guy came in and said "the guy who ghost wrote that and some of the other sequels taught at my college." I'm thinking he's got it mixed up with failson's books but I could be wrong?
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Jul 8, 2019 01:53
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I've never heard that, I'd assume it was the son.
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Jul 8, 2019 01:59
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@duneauthor def ghostwrote the dune series, just ask him
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Jul 8, 2019 02:49
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Mister Speaker posted:Did Frank have any ghostwriters help him with the books? I'm sitting here at work with my copy of Children and a guy came in and said "the guy who ghost wrote that and some of the other sequels taught at my college." I'm thinking he's got it mixed up with failson's books but I could be wrong?
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Jul 8, 2019 03:03
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Yeah, I'm guessing he was referring to Kevin J. Anderson.
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Jul 8, 2019 04:54
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What kind of lovely college did that guy go to that would hire trash like Kevin J. Anderson?
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Jul 8, 2019 05:07
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Defiance Industries posted:What kind of lovely college did that guy go to that would hire trash like Kevin J. Anderson? Western Colorado University
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Jul 8, 2019 05:47
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Mister Speaker posted:Did Frank have any ghostwriters help him with the books? I'm sitting here at work with my copy of Children and a guy came in and said "the guy who ghost wrote that and some of the other sequels taught at my college." I'm thinking he's got it mixed up with failson's books but I could be wrong? IIRC, he wrote the first three books - and plotted out the fourth - at mostly the same time, which makes it unlikely. Could he be thinking of Bill Ransom and the Destination: Void series?
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Jul 8, 2019 11:29
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