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its all nice on rice
Nov 12, 2006

Sweet, Salty Goodness.



Buglord
Man, they sure know how to make you feel like a dumbass who is terrible at everything during OJTI! Could be worse, I guess.

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MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

You ARE a dumbass that is terrible at everything when you start OJT. :v:

The trick is to learn things at a rate that proves you’re worth investing further time and effort into...

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

MrYenko posted:

You ARE a dumbass that is terrible at everything when you start OJT. :v:

The trick is to learn things at a rate that proves you’re worth investing further time and effort into...

I don't know what it's like for controllers, but when it comes to training pilots I find the ones that feel they are "terrible at everything" are by far the most promising students. Everyone's terrible at everything starting out, but it's the ones who don't realize it that really end up struggling to progress. And from the instructor's side, I can say that "you aren't a terrible moron who's a write-off at everything, here are the things you did acceptably, now here's what you need to improve on..." is a way more enjoyable conversation than the one that begins, "so, wait, you think that flight went well???" :v:

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

PT6A posted:

I don't know what it's like for controllers, but when it comes to training pilots I find the ones that feel they are "terrible at everything" are by far the most promising students. Everyone's terrible at everything starting out, but it's the ones who don't realize it that really end up struggling to progress. And from the instructor's side, I can say that "you aren't a terrible moron who's a write-off at everything, here are the things you did acceptably, now here's what you need to improve on..." is a way more enjoyable conversation than the one that begins, "so, wait, you think that flight went well???" :v:

I read an interesting article a while back about perceived vs actual task performance. The gist is that people who think they’re loving awesome at things generally aren’t, whereas people who think they’re terrible at things are generally better at it than they think they are, they just notice their mistakes.

This hit me particularly hard, since I was a trainee at the time. :v:

OJT training is drinking from a firehose of pain and embarrassment.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

MrYenko posted:

I read an interesting article a while back about perceived vs actual task performance. The gist is that people who think they’re loving awesome at things generally aren’t, whereas people who think they’re terrible at things are generally better at it than they think they are, they just notice their mistakes.

This hit me particularly hard, since I was a trainee at the time. :v:

OJT training is drinking from a firehose of pain and embarrassment.

Dunning-Kruger Effect. Essentially, the theory posits that the skills you need to evaluate your own performance at a task are the same skills you need to do that task effectively, so the worse you are, the less able to you are to know just how badly you're doing.

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009


Fun Shoe
Put in ERR paperwork to go back to KC yesterday :v:

I think I have a good shot at getting offered a temp sup job here but I'm pretty sure I'm not staying here at this point. I can go back to KC and get a really nice house on a 15 year loan for less than a less nice house would cost on a 30 year loan here. This facility is also garbage!

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

A friend of TangoFox is a tower controller at Juneau tower, and has a 150. Apparently he got his FacManager to agree to an LOA letting him use the callsign “Harambe One” locally.

It’s basically the best thing ever.

And there’s video.

TangoFox
Jan 29, 2016

fknlo posted:

Put in ERR paperwork to go back to KC yesterday :v:

I think I have a good shot at getting offered a temp sup job here but I'm pretty sure I'm not staying here at this point. I can go back to KC and get a really nice house on a 15 year loan for less than a less nice house would cost on a 30 year loan here. This facility is also garbage!

You can come to ZMA, I know someone who will swap with you.

It's sexy fun times down here. You can be the meat to my Yenko sandwich.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Giggity.

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009


Fun Shoe

TangoFox posted:

You can come to ZMA, I know someone who will swap with you.

It's sexy fun times down here. You can be the meat to my Yenko sandwich.

A swap is my last resort because I wouldn't get a raise for going up facility levels! If I ERR back to ZKC or get picked up on a TMU bid or whatever I'll get 8%, so I'd basically keep most of my locality.

TangoFox
Jan 29, 2016

fknlo posted:

A swap is my last resort because I wouldn't get a raise for going up facility levels! If I ERR back to ZKC or get picked up on a TMU bid or whatever I'll get 8%, so I'd basically keep most of my locality.

That is true, I forgot about those bogus level 10 cutouts.

TangoFox
Jan 29, 2016


Here's the LOA:
https://imgur.com/zCYWFyI

TangoFox
Jan 29, 2016
I was in the room when a pilot said he lost oil pressure, AMA

Pics:
https://imgur.com/a/bnmquEZ

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

I was on the Dside.

Also, don’t bury your plane’s registration in three layers of shell corporations, and we won’t almost send an HC-130 after you.

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009


Fun Shoe
As they've all but shut down the east departure gate out of KDEN for weather over the Missouri/Kansas border yet again I can't help but recall all the times in training where I realized how loving stupid this place was and how much I regret not terminating my training instead of stupidly thinking I could deal with it without losing my mind. Part of me applauds them being proactive on it instead of just launching aircraft at a line of weather, but god drat folks, literally shutting down a gate for weather that's literally 500 miles away makes no loving sense.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

fknlo posted:

As they've all but shut down the east departure gate out of KDEN for weather over the Missouri/Kansas border yet again I can't help but recall all the times in training where I realized how loving stupid this place was and how much I regret not terminating my training instead of stupidly thinking I could deal with it without losing my mind. Part of me applauds them being proactive on it instead of just launching aircraft at a line of weather, but god drat folks, literally shutting down a gate for weather that's literally 500 miles away makes no loving sense.

Can you send your TMU here please?

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009


Fun Shoe

MrYenko posted:

Can you send your TMU here please?

D01 TMU is part of the deal too. Get your gate swap macros ready, you're getting shut off the moment an arrival deviates.

It's actually cool that they're kind of looking out even though I'm sure it's more of a national flow program. I just don't understand shutting down the busiest gate when it's not being impacted by weather in any way. It was shut down for most of the day yesterday and everyone else got absolutely swamped when something like 1 x 30 stream that can pick their way through would have done wonders.

Something Offal
Jan 12, 2018

by FactsAreUseless

TangoFox posted:

I was in the room when a pilot said he lost oil pressure, AMA

Pics:
https://imgur.com/a/bnmquEZ

What's the story here?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Something Offal posted:

What's the story here?

I went into detail over here, in the Aviation thread.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Slightly more on-topic, anyone at ZAN, A11, or any of the Anchorage-area towers, or have an academy friend from same? I need brains.

To pick. Brains to pick. Not eat.

Maybe eat.

two_beer_bishes
Jun 27, 2004

MrYenko posted:

Slightly more on-topic, anyone at ZAN, A11, or any of the Anchorage-area towers, or have an academy friend from same? I need brains.

To pick. Brains to pick. Not eat.

Maybe eat.

I can give you Clint Lancaster's number if you haven't gotten that yet, he's the natca RVP up there. Take what he says with a huge grain of salt, he lied to me and other guys I worked with just to get bodies in the facilities. Pretty sure he's still technically a ZAN guy.

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009


Fun Shoe

MrYenko posted:

Slightly more on-topic, anyone at ZAN, A11, or any of the Anchorage-area towers, or have an academy friend from same? I need brains.

To pick. Brains to pick. Not eat.

Maybe eat.

There are 2 people from ZAN in my area, one of them has only been here like a year. I'm sure he could get you in touch with someone there.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

two_beer_bishes posted:

I can give you Clint Lancaster's number if you haven't gotten that yet, he's the natca RVP up there.

I actually have his info already, buuuuuut...

fknlo posted:

There are 2 people from ZAN in my area, one of them has only been here like a year. I'm sure he could get you in touch with someone there.

...This is more what I’m looking for. Someone lower down the totem pole I can ask generic questions about the area at. Nice neighborhoods, what the commutes are like in the winter, how bad the management culture is, etc etc. Bonus points if they’re not AK natives.

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009


Fun Shoe

MrYenko posted:

I actually have his info already, buuuuuut...


...This is more what I’m looking for. Someone lower down the totem pole I can ask generic questions about the area at. Nice neighborhoods, what the commutes are like in the winter, how bad the management culture is, etc etc. Bonus points if they’re not AK natives.

The next time I see him I'll get his contact info for you.

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009


Fun Shoe
There's a public bid open for a couple days, tell your friends.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


Ask Me About Air Traffic Control. It's Not a Controller Shortage, It's a Hiring Shortage

Something Offal
Jan 12, 2018

by FactsAreUseless

This was a great writeup (a Pro Click in other words), thanks Yenko bro. Nicely done for that pilot.

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009


Fun Shoe
Our FLM from Atlanta called up someone at Denver approach and the conversation led to him pulling out the "I worked the worlds busiest airport for 15+ years, I know how this poo poo is supposed to work" card and I'm loving dying.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

fknlo posted:

Our FLM from Atlanta called up someone at Denver approach and the conversation led to him pulling out the "I worked the worlds busiest airport for 15+ years, I know how this poo poo is supposed to work" card and I'm loving dying.

Our ex-ZTL sup does the same thing. Never fails to accomplish absolutely nothing.

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009


Fun Shoe
We got a CEDAR briefing about someone pissing in one of the areas. It specifically mentioned a cup in the trash but the rumor is that it was actually just in the corner and the area reeks of piss. It's assumed that it was done on the mid, but we have 2 people in the area on the mids, so who knows.

Blackchamber
Jan 25, 2005

Maybe they spilled their piss cup or had overflow.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

ZDV pissbottles. Confirm/deny?

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009


Fun Shoe

MrYenko posted:

ZDV pissbottles. Confirm/deny?

Gotta go with deny on that one. Just open top cups here. We're naturally several years behind the coasts in that regard.

TangoFox
Jan 29, 2016
Wait... why do you have 2 people in the area on the mids?

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

TangoFox posted:

Wait... why do you have 2 people in the area on the mids?

This is actually a better question.

Blackchamber
Jan 25, 2005

the floor panels just lift up for quick and easy storage of all piss cups or bottles, why even throw them in the trash?

fknlo
Jul 6, 2009


Fun Shoe

TangoFox posted:

Wait... why do you have 2 people in the area on the mids?

Because it's busy and they need it. This is standard practice at ZKC as well.

KodiakRS
Jul 11, 2012

:stonk:
This is actually a question I've had for a while. What are the rules about having a second controller around at those small towers that operate 24/7 but are totally dead during the middle of the night? If it is just one person, what are they supposed to do if they need to take a piss? Use a bottle? Just step out of the cab for a few minutes to "use the land line?"

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Just got out as CIC, took three phone calls in a row from one-oclockers that are stuck in their cars in the parking lot because the rain is blowing sideways.

AMA.

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torb main
Jul 28, 2004

SELL SELL SELL
I'm curious, obviously the Vistajet here was gaming the system by departing VFR in an attempt to pick up IFR in the air - BFI tower did a nice job throughout the incident as well - but are there any repercussions against pilots that do this? Certainly that controller can file some sort of report with the FAA, or did the pilot not technically violate any rules? Just an armchair aviation enthusiast, so I don't know the ins and outs of your guys' job, but I wanted to hear a controller's take.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2YsabrDEug

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