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Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe Biden, the Inappropriate Toucher |
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18 | 1.46% |
| Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer |
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665 | 54.11% |
| Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker |
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319 | 25.96% |
| Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord |
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26 | 2.12% |
| Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Julian Castro, the Twin |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath |
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17 | 1.38% |
| Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino |
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3 | 0.24% |
| Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist |
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8 | 0.65% |
| Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen |
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86 | 7.00% |
| Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater |
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23 | 1.87% |
| Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool |
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32 | 2.60% |
| Eric Swalwell, the Insurance Wife Guy |
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2 | 0.16% |
| Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast |
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1 | 0.08% |
| Bill de Blasio, the NYPD Most Hated |
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4 | 0.33% |
| Tim Ryan, the Dope Face |
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3 | 0.24% |
| John Hickenlooper, the Also Ran |
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7 | 0.57% |
| Total: | 1229 votes | ||
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Yeah because the debates would be an informative and useful affair otherwise
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Jul 8, 2019 17:12
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Trabisnikof posted:That's true for everyone who isn't in the top 5. So if we're wasting everyone's time with Yang or Hickenlooper or Ryan, having Williamson is a good thing since her message is better than than all the other non-serious candidates. The fact that she's the one delivering the message isn't a positive if you want that message out.
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Jul 8, 2019 17:13
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mcmagic posted:The fact that she's the one delivering the message isn't a positive if you want that message out. So saith you. And its clearly working better than having no one bringing up these topics at all. Most of the evidence points that way, even if a bunch of op-ed quality centrists really hate her. Someone mentioning the US's role in SA migration is better than no one. Even if a bunch of people who'd disagree with the message no-matter-what also dislike her.
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Jul 8, 2019 17:16
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I’m pretty sure Deion owned a failed charter school that was a huge disaster
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Jul 8, 2019 17:17
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lmao drat, judging by the probations in the last few pages, ppj sure had a mask slip  mcmagic posted:The fact that she's the one delivering the message isn't a positive if you want that message out. Maybe you should change your username if you aren’t in favor of our sweet lady 
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Jul 8, 2019 17:20
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Cerebral Bore posted:Buddy, when you pull the old trick of pretending that your arbitrarily chosen issue is the only one that matters, you should make sure that the other issue you're trying to dismiss isn't objectively a million times more harmful than the one you want to push. Because that makes you look like an idiot as well as a real rear end in a top hat. I'm not pulling the trick of "only one problem matters", I'm pointing out that it matters with all the others. The rest of you continue to think that being an anti-vaxxer is just some joke that only stemlords care about rather than a serious public health crisis. Literally calling someone a "tedious liberal" because they have to worry about measles outbreaks is incredibly hosed up. Trabisnikof posted:Williamson isn’t more anti-vax than most candidates, yet people will 100% give Biden or Harris a pass on the topic while declaring Williamson should be banned from the debates over a comment she retracted and apologized for. This is little more than bullshit equivocation. Pete gave a lovely answer because he clearly hasn't thought the problem through. Marianne literally makes her living off of snake oil bullshit. You're being disingenuous as usual when you equate the two. Roald Dahl posted:Olivia, my eldest daughter, caught measles when she was seven years old. As the illness took its usual course I can remember reading to her often in bed and not feeling particularly alarmed about it. Then one morning, when she was well on the road to recovery, I was sitting on her bed showing her how to fashion little animals out of coloured pipe-cleaners, and when it came to her turn to make one herself, I noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn't do anything. Quit acting like little shits and take this seriously.
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Jul 8, 2019 17:22
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Solkanar512 posted:I'm not pulling the trick of "only one problem matters", I'm pointing out that it matters with all the others. The rest of you continue to think that being an anti-vaxxer is just some joke that only stemlords care about rather than a serious public health crisis. Literally calling someone a "tedious liberal" because they have to worry about measles outbreaks is incredibly hosed up. People have already pointed out that her stance on vaccines is essentially identical to everyone else on that stage.
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Jul 8, 2019 17:27
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https://twitter.com/markzbarabak/status/1148262537252757506?s=21
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Jul 8, 2019 17:27
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Solkanar512 posted:This is little more than bullshit equivocation. Pete gave a lovely answer because he clearly hasn't thought the problem through. Marianne literally makes her living off of snake oil bullshit. You're being disingenuous as usual when you equate the two. I am taking this seriously, I hope you can learn to stop insulting people who disagree with you. Williamson has this to say about vaccines: quote:“I understand that many vaccines are important and save lives. I recognize there are epidemics around the world that are stopped by vaccines. I also understand some of the skepticism that abounds today about drugs which are rushed to market by Big Pharma. I am sorry that I made comments which sounded as though I question the validity of life-saving vaccines. That is not my feeling and I realize that I misspoke.” There seems to be two legitimate standards people use in this thread for "anti-vax" either: 1. Opposing vaccines and/or promoting pseudo-science that is anti-vax. 2. Opposing bans on personal and religious exemptions from vaccines. Williamson is not type 1, she does qualify as type 2, but so does a large chunk of the candidates on the debate stage. If we're going to say "well, what she said in the 90s was too problematic" then likewise, I think we'll find that most of the candidates on stage had extremely problematic takes in the 90s. Like Tulsi, or Biden, or Warren. So Williamson serves two valuable purposes, she points out the hypocrisy in the centrists who want us to ignore all their past failures and also she spreads valuable and compelling messages like: our culture is broken or the US is responsible for the migratory crisis. (There is of course a candidate who didn't have a bunch of poo poo takes in the 90s and is spreading a good message, but people repeatedly request we stop talking about that candidate.)
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Jul 8, 2019 17:30
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Trabisnikof posted:
This is somewhat reductionist because there's a big difference between actively spreading an anti-vaxx message, vs. passively accepting anti-vaxx messaging. To my knowledge at least, Buttigieg has never gone on Bill Maher and actively put forward anti-vaxx messages, he just responded badly when asked, whereas Marianne Williamson has done that, in 2015. OTOH I think Marianne Williamson has actually apologized for her prior anti vaxx stance and i'm not sure if Buttigieg has or not
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Jul 8, 2019 17:38
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:This is somewhat reductionist because there's a big difference between actively spreading an anti-vaxx message, vs. passively accepting anti-vaxx messaging. To my knowledge at least, Buttigieg has never gone on Bill Maher and actively put forward anti-vaxx messages, he just responded badly when asked, whereas Marianne Williamson has done that, in 2015. Agree here, but Williamson's apology was about as legitimate as Biden's. Also remember that WIlliamson actively makes money on anti-vaxx poo poo, fat shaming poo poo, and anti-mental health poo poo. Erin Biba is a science writer who is active on Twitter and periodically has great threads documenting this.
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Jul 8, 2019 17:42
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mcmagic posted:She's not a serious candidate. Her in the debates is a waste of everyone's time. the entire debate was a waste of everyone's time, at least she's entertaining
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Jul 8, 2019 17:50
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The Muppets On PCP posted:the entire debate was a waste of everyone's time, at least she's entertaining If there were no debates, Biden would cakewalk to the nomination.
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Jul 8, 2019 17:51
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FlamingLiberal posted:I’m pretty sure Deion owned a failed charter school that was a huge disaster something else he has in common with the sanders mcmagic posted:If there were no debates, Biden would cakewalk to the nomination. i didn't say there should be no debates
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Jul 8, 2019 17:51
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Z. Autobahn posted:Because generally speaking the defining trait of blue dog Dems is their spineless-ness and willingness to cave to pressure, and I don't think they'd be confident ideological holdouts over this in the face of a strong Presidential win? That said, Warren is by no means uniquely the one to do it; I believe several other Dems have said they would they end it as well. I like how they're spineless cowards who cave to pressure unless the country is trying to do anything that falls under the category of "does not immediately make life worse for everyone making under 200k/yr". Why wouldn't Bernie be able to faceroll these supposedly infamous cowards? And how exactly would we expect the GOP not to block this? Why would neither group block this but then also show up in force to block M4A when, ostensibly, the reason we want the filibuster gone is so that Better Things like M4A can be passed? Solkanar512 posted:I'm not pulling the trick of "only one problem matters", I'm pointing out that it matters with all the others. The rest of you continue to think that being an anti-vaxxer is just some joke that only stemlords care about rather than a serious public health crisis. Literally calling someone a "tedious liberal" because they have to worry about measles outbreaks is incredibly hosed up. I think some posters are responding poorly to your yelling because 90% of candidates in this primary are actively working towards making it impossible to seek treatment for medical issues of any kind. Much less immune disorders. It's not that people don't think vaccinations are important so much as they're more concerned with the men and women on stage who are fighting for policy that will make it literally impossible to survive with an immune disorder regardless of whether or not a bunch of pampered upper class dickheads bringing back the old plagues we put down 50-100 years ago. fakeedit: And all of this is without taking into account that half the people on that stage have backed (and still do lmao) foreign policy that has piled up, literally, millions of bodies in the middle east. Marxalot fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jul 8, 2019 |
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Jul 8, 2019 17:55
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i mean if this thread is anything to go by then the average d&d type doesn’t think foreign people or poor people actually matter (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 8, 2019 18:10
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Allowing some nutbag a platform to spread their dangerous bullshit is harmful. It's as simple as that. It doesn't matter if she's in danger of winning anything or not.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:11
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GonadTheBallbarian posted:Allowing some nutbag a platform to spread their dangerous bullshit is harmful. Wholeheartedly agree. Which is why I and possibly a couple other people in this very thread harbor an -intense- loathing for the neoliberal bullshit we get from the more ~respectable~ candidates. e: I think this is a good time to remind everyone that, without employer contributions, a family healthcare plan costs around $2500/mo. The high deductible version was around $1950. Mercifully, a single person high deductible health plan is a mere $400 or so, and who can't afford that? Marxalot fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jul 8, 2019 |
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Jul 8, 2019 18:17
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Good thing there are currently 29 annnounced candidates running and only 26 of them think that we need obamacare 2.0.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:18
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GonadTheBallbarian posted:Allowing some nutbag a platform to spread their dangerous bullshit is harmful. Can you quote me which part of what Williamson said on stage that was "dangerous bullshit"? I don't remember her using the platform for that at all.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:21
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The thing about Williamson is that there's an obvious double standard at play here, where less bad poo poo like being arguably anti-vax gets treated as disqualifying, but far worse poo poo like literal support for war crimes and mass murder gets a pass. And that in itself is much worse than anything that an obvious joke candidate could ever accomplish.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:25
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Trabisnikof posted:Can you quote me which part of what Williamson said on stage that was "dangerous bullshit"? She didn't, and as much as I loving loathe anti vaxx poo poo, she hasn't done anything half as crazy as Warren's dna test, or Biden's hair smelling habit. She's a unique moonbeam, but let's not pretend the other people on that stage aren't just as loving wacko but in weirder worse ways. That being said I couldn't vote for her in the primary.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:29
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OctaMurk posted:Weren't slavery and segregation ended by the political establishment though? In the case of the former--through war and battlefield necessity, and in the case of the latter, through supreme court cases? The civil war happened quite explicitly because a non-establishment candidate and party won the election. And that happened because of abolitionist movement engaging in lots of persuasion and direct action. The political establishment desperately wanted to find a compromise to continue things as they were, and even Lincoln had bowed down to their desires as part of the deal he made to get to office. (The South simply didn't believe he was going to really join the existing political establishment)
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Jul 8, 2019 18:39
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Trabisnikof posted:Can you quote me which part of what Williamson said on stage that was "dangerous bullshit"? Sure, her presence on the stage as a legitimate candidate and that her ideas are worthy of discussion. The same rear end in a top hat who thinks this: https://twitter.com/marwilliamson/status/1004038965018726400 and: https://twitter.com/JulesJester/status/1141517947518820359 is being shown to voters as worthy of discussion at all. Cerebral Bore posted:The thing about Williamson is that there's an obvious double standard at play here, where less bad poo poo like being arguably anti-vax gets treated as disqualifying, but far worse poo poo like literal support for war crimes and mass murder gets a pass. And that in itself is much worse than anything that an obvious joke candidate could ever accomplish. It's only a double standard to those who don't also say that this is terrible poo poo too, which it is. If you ask me, I'd love to see Biden booed off the stage and treated like the dangerous moron he is.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:46
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GonadTheBallbarian posted:It's only a double standard to those who don't also say that this is terrible poo poo too, which it is. If you ask me, I'd love to see Biden booed off the stage and treated like the dangerous moron he is. It's a double standard because Biden is, in fact, not being booed off the stage.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:49
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Trabisnikof posted:Can you quote me which part of what Williamson said on stage that was "dangerous bullshit"? More bad faith arguments. She literally sells books on this poo poo, just because she didn't manage to cram it into her five minutes of debate doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Why are you so loving disingenuous? Cerebral Bore posted:The thing about Williamson is that there's an obvious double standard at play here, where less bad poo poo like being arguably anti-vax gets treated as disqualifying, but far worse poo poo like literal support for war crimes and mass murder gets a pass. And that in itself is much worse than anything that an obvious joke candidate could ever accomplish. No one here is giving anyone a pass for war crimes and mass murder, the difference is that I'm a lot more knowledgeable about biology and public health than I am about foreign policy so I'll leave it to others who know more to speak on that issue and stay in my lane. I shouldn't have to write a whole loving thesis about every bad thing that shitheads are advocating just so I can point out the obvious ableism that stems from anti-vaxx beliefs. And no, it's not "arguably less bad". Much like shithead dominists spread homophobic beliefs throughout the world and encourage the creation of homophobic laws, anti-vaxx beliefs lead to the spread of dangerous diseases all over the loving world. Folks may not think that a few hundreds cases of measles is no big deal here in the United States, but here's are the CDC results for the whole loving world. CDC posted:Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) - As of 23 April 2019, 61,097 suspected cases were reported and 1,129 deaths. This isn't a loving joke.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:53
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Trabisnikof posted:Williamson isn’t more anti-vax than most candidates, yet people will 100% give Biden or Harris a pass on the topic while declaring Williamson should be banned from the debates over a comment she retracted and apologized for. Yeah you see that with Gravel, half the stage either did or would have killed 4,000 Americans and half a million plus Iraqis over conspiracy theories that Saddam did 9/11 and had invisible teleporting uranium refinery vans filled with Chinese  aluminum tubes while Tim Ryan is up there promoting conspiracy theories that the Taliban did it, and nobody says they aren't serious candidates who don't deserve to be on stage regardless of polling and fundraising.But magically 9/11 conspiracy theories suddenly become a single-issue litmus test when Gravel suggests the comparatively much more reasonable and much less harmful theory that Bush did it. Mysteriously, this selective litmus test only applies to candidates who criticize US empire and endless wars.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:56
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The difference between propagating anti-vaxx views vs imperialism is that your average American watching Joe Biden wax on about the Iraq war can't go out and pilot a drone to bomb a wedding, but they can hear Williamson and choose not to vaccinate their kids or take their anti-depressants. Biden's views are disqualifying because they reveal why he'd be an awful President, but Williamson's views are dangerous *right now* even with her out of power, in a way that is unique and awful just to her. The other candidates reveal the harm they'd do later, but Williamson is the one who is actively doing the harm RIGHT NOW.
Z. Autobahn fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jul 8, 2019 |
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Jul 8, 2019 18:57
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Solkanar512 posted:This is little more than bullshit equivocation. Pete gave a lovely answer because he clearly hasn't thought the problem through. Marianne literally makes her living off of snake oil bullshit. You're being disingenuous as usual when you equate the two. When a troop is an anti-vaxxer he probably just hasn't thought about it poor dear and his true beliefs are whatever I make up. But if you criticize the war, then the same anti-vaxxer opinions as Mayor 'the Troop' Pete mean you hate children and want them to die.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:59
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Solkanar512 posted:More bad faith arguments. She literally sells books on this poo poo, just because she didn't manage to cram it into her five minutes of debate doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Why are you so loving disingenuous? Yeah and joe biden made student loan debt un-dischargeable for a windbreaker with the citibank logo on it. It is, of course, impossible to compare or rank the issues at play here.
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Jul 8, 2019 18:59
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Z. Autobahn posted:The difference between propagating anti-vaxx views vs imperialism is that your average American watching Joe Biden wax on about the Iraq war can't go out and pilot a drone to bomb a wedding, but they can hear Williamson and choose not to vaccinate their kids or take their anti-depressants. Biden's views are disqualifying because they reveal why he'd be an awful President, but Williamson's views are dangerous *right now* even with her out of power, in a way that is unique and awful just to her. The other candidates reveal the harm they'd do later, but Williamson is the one who is actively doing the harm RIGHT NOW. Is... is this really the difference?
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Jul 8, 2019 19:01
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Solkanar512 posted:More bad faith arguments. She literally sells books on this poo poo, just because she didn't manage to cram it into her five minutes of debate doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Why are you so loving disingenuous? OP, even if the bougie dipshits who jumped on the antivaxx crystals "the reason you're depressed is you eat gluten" bandwagon were actually responsible for every single one of those; The state of the current American healthcare system puts tens of thousands of people a year into early graves. I sincerely doubt there is a single person ITC who can't think of at least a few of those people. Cerebral Bore posted:It's a double standard because Biden is, in fact, not being booed off the stage. God this would own so hard. I already forgot who was booed offstage (Delaney?), but that needs to happen more often. e: I know at least buttergreg had the exact same take. I want to say a few others did as well. Marxalot fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jul 8, 2019 |
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Jul 8, 2019 19:01
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Just curious what the remaining "Warren is still running out of money" true believers make of this: https://twitter.com/TeamWarren/status/1148290672484605953 EDIT Sorry to interrupt your "repeat the same arguments for and against Williamson over and over" circle jerk with some actual loving primary news. Holy horseshit has this thread sucked since someone threatened to have Bernie throw me in a gulag. VH4Ever fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jul 8, 2019 |
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Jul 8, 2019 19:02
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Z. Autobahn posted:The difference between propagating anti-vaxx views vs imperialism is that your average American watching Joe Biden wax on about the Iraq war can't go out and pilot a drone to bomb a wedding, but they can hear Williamson and choose not to vaccinate their kids or take their anti-depressants. Biden's views are disqualifying because they reveal why he'd be an awful President, but Williamson's views are dangerous *right now* even with her out of power, in a way that is unique and awful just to her. The other candidates reveal the harm they'd do later, but Williamson is the one who is actively doing the harm RIGHT NOW. having a bad tweet and going back on it: ACTIVELY DOING THE HARM RIGHT NOW conducting a multiyear blockade of yemen at the behest of the house of saud to intentionally starve the populace and purposely let malaria (something that has a vaccine, interesting) run rampant: not actively doing the harm?
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Jul 8, 2019 19:03
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VH4Ever posted:Just curious what the remaining "Warren is still running out of money" true believers make of this: As a "Warren is still running out of money" true believer, I think she's lying about the numbers.
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Jul 8, 2019 19:03
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Z. Autobahn posted:The difference between propagating anti-vaxx views vs imperialism is that your average American watching Joe Biden wax on about the Iraq war can't go out and pilot a drone to bomb a wedding, but they can hear Williamson and choose not to vaccinate their kids or take their anti-depressants. Biden's views are disqualifying because they reveal why he'd be an awful President, but Williamson's views are dangerous *right now* even with her out of power, in a way that is unique and awful just to her. The other candidates reveal the harm they'd do later, but Williamson is the one who is actively doing the harm RIGHT NOW. Half the candidates agree with her on vaccines so
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Jul 8, 2019 19:05
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VH4Ever posted:Just curious what the remaining "Warren is still running out of money" true believers make of this: That's very good! We'll see if she can keep it up.
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Jul 8, 2019 19:05
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Z. Autobahn posted:The difference between propagating anti-vaxx views vs imperialism is that your average American watching Joe Biden wax on about the Iraq war can't go out and pilot a drone to bomb a wedding, but they can hear Williamson and choose not to vaccinate their kids or take their anti-depressants. Biden's views are disqualifying because they reveal why he'd be an awful President, but Williamson's views are dangerous *right now* even with her out of power, in a way that is unique and awful just to her. The other candidates reveal the harm they'd do later, but Williamson is the one who is actively doing the harm RIGHT NOW. I know that you've posted a lot of dumb poo poo ITT, but literally arguing that the bipartisan consensus support for the forever war isn't actually harmful is on a whole new level.
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Jul 8, 2019 19:05
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VH4Ever posted:Just curious what the remaining "Warren is still running out of money" true believers make of this: My take is that she'll make an awful lot more money in the general campaign when she starts taking donations from wealthy donors. Sad.
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Jul 8, 2019 19:06
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Cerebral Bore posted:I know that you've posted a lot of dumb poo poo ITT, but literally arguing that the bipartisan consensus support for the forever war isn't actually harmful is on a whole new level. But but the average voter isn't shipping millions of dollars in clusterbombs to bin Saud's school-bus bombing divisions!
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Jul 8, 2019 19:07
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