|
Casimir Radon posted:I have forgotten that DX doesn't autosave a few times and gotten killed in Battery Park with no saves. Some mods do trigger autosave when you change areas. Yeah revision lets you turn on autosave on zone change or on time limit. Pretty nice, but I also just got used to hammering quicksave.
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 04:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 12:14 |
|
|
Alchenar posted:I just completed my re-run of Mankind Divided with a playthrough of A Criminal Past, and it makes me a bit sad because that's the DLC where they finally nailed that Deus Ex feeling to the map and quest design. My bold take is that it's the series at absolute pinnacle - the best mechanics with equal-to-best content.  If that was the last bit that team worked on then they really robbed us as they were finally really nailing that OG feel with modern mechanics.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 13:07
|
|
|
deus ex multiplayer was the best, change my mind
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 15:29
|
|
|
Jeoh posted:deus ex multiplayer was the best, change my mind DX multiplayer is responsible for ruining the plasma rifle's reputation, as the last official patch accidentally overwrote the singleplayer damage values with the multiplayer ones, which are much lower and make the gun not worth using.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 20:10
|
|
|
Jeoh posted:deus ex multiplayer was the best, change my mind I always forget that was even a thing. I think I played 2 games of multi total back in the day.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 20:21
|
|
|
I remember a few servers with nothing but projectile guns i.e. rockets and plasma and grenades. Oh and low gravity. That was the best.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 21:37
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Yeah Deus Ex was always pretty heavy on savescumming unless you were already a pro, just surprising how stark the difference is even on the first level, compared to say modern deus ex. As with any RPG, Deus Ex is only hard until you levelled up enough to become unstoppable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 21:42
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:I always forget that was even a thing. I think I played 2 games of multi total back in the day. Deus Ex came out in that weird era where every game had to have multiplayer even it was a hacked-together deathmatch with few maps. It was like a requirement and publishers would refuse to release a game without it, no matter how much of an after-thought it was.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 21:48
|
|
|
Samuel Clemens posted:As with any RPG, Deus Ex is only hard until you levelled up enough to become unstoppable. I did an entire playthough up to hong kong using nothing but the baton, and even after then only mostly using the baton.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 21:49
|
|
|
You didn’t prod?
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 21:53
|
|
|
The mastered baton will knock any enemy unconscious with a hit to the rear torso. Also has no ammo. e: something that I thought was great about how the story and gameplay of Deus Ex interacted was that there was always a point where I stopped trying to be entirely non-lethal and would just kill everyone in my way - usually between Hong Kong and Vandenberg. A transition from trying to uphold the law society where that's clearly difficult, to realising there's no point striving to be 'the good guy' in the world as it is and that nothing really matters unless you are able to set yourself up at the top or tear everything down (which is exactly what the game offers as the ending options). Alchenar fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jul 9, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 22:11
|
|
|
Stick with the prod.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 22:14
|
|
|
You don't know hard/frustrating until on a pacifist-until-MJ12-gently caress-those-guys run, you resolve to keep absolutely everyone alive in hell's kitchen, requiring gassing and prodding and batonning every last nsf and unatco dumb gently caress before they shoot each other in scripted fights
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 22:33
|
|
|
El_Elegante posted:Stick with the prod. It's been a while, but I recall prod ammo becoming proper thin on the ground by mid-game. Solaris 2.0 posted:Deus Ex came out in that weird era where every game had to have multiplayer even it was a hacked-together deathmatch with few maps. It was like a requirement and publishers would refuse to release a game without it, no matter how much of an after-thought it was. I remember this period... with a vague sense of nausea.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 22:56
|
|
|
El_Elegante posted:You didn’t prod? wait for it El_Elegante posted:Stick with the prod.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 23:15
|
|
|
Solaris 2.0 posted:Deus Ex came out in that weird era where every game had to have multiplayer even it was a hacked-together deathmatch with few maps. It was like a requirement and publishers would refuse to release a game without it, no matter how much of an after-thought it was. it was actually slapped on in a patch: deets
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 23:31
|
|
|
Do any mods let you ko the men in black?
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 23:40
|
|
|
El_Elegante posted:Do any mods let you ko the men in black? Its possible in the base game with high melee + baton/prod
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 23:45
|
|
|
Do they still detonate in the base game?
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 23:57
|
|
|
When killed with bullets or sharp things yeah
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2019 23:59
|
|
|
You don't even need high Low-Tech for the prod to KO MiBs, just prod them in the spine twice. You may as well save all your prod charges for them anyway since everything else goes down in one baton hit to the base of the neck.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2019 06:46
|
|
|
Man I forgot how long you spend creeping around the subway and sewers of battery park. I remembered the first trip on the way to hell's kitchen, but I just passed through the tunnels on this current replay and I forgot how much time you spend creeping in the muck. late 90s/early 2000s games seemed to really like putting you in dank sewers and super tight corridors like infinite air ducts. I guess they're simpler to render if nothing else.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2019 07:49
|
|
|
I suspect there's a game design aspect to it too. Unreal 1 on the same engine handled huge open spaces on some of the levels with ease. But open areas with long sight lines make the stealth and combat gameplay loop a lot less interesting. Think about Liberty Island, and how easy it is to pick off guys with the sniper if you want to, about how if you're too far from someone stealthing is too easy and also unrealistic, but if you're too close there's nothing you can do to conceal yourself and make the encounter fun. I've spent a bit of time thinking about this as I play through DXMD the last few days. The game can clearly handle the long sight lines as well, but they've chosen not to let them exist very often; the rangefinder built into my scope has never measured a distance of more than 60m, and the second highest was 40m, which still is somewhat uncommon. Instead you're pushed into close encounters with security to attack or evade, and complicated areas to navigate that are creased enough to hold surprises and secrets for even a thorough explorer.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2019 21:31
|
|
|
There is more to it than that. A wide open gameplay map design is TRICKY if you are trying to tie it into a narrative. A very large very open map easily gets either confusing or slows gameplay and story pace. Thats why DX uses them sparingly- and well. There are some very large maps on DX- take a GEP gun with scope and measure the distance inside the sub pen that houses PRCS wall cloud (the freighter) I think Its like 400 meters or So across. Also vertical movement in DX is amazing once you realize that dropping onto enemies with speed enhancement 4 kills them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2019 21:42
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:e: something that I thought was great about how the story and gameplay of Deus Ex interacted was that there was always a point where I stopped trying to be entirely non-lethal and would just kill everyone in my way - usually between Hong Kong and Vandenberg. A transition from trying to uphold the law society where that's clearly difficult, to realising there's no point striving to be 'the good guy' in the world as it is and that nothing really matters unless you are able to set yourself up at the top or tear everything down (which is exactly what the game offers as the ending options). Yeah, for me it feels natural to use purely non-lethal force until you learn MJ12 orchestrated the attack on the Statue of Liberty and you send the NSF distress signal. After that it's pure gently caress everything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2019 22:28
|
|
|
Pakled posted:After that it's pure ethical flexibility.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2019 22:53
|
|
|
Pakled posted:Yeah, for me it feels natural to use purely non-lethal force Agent Navarre does not approve.  I do not expect you to perform as well as Agent Hermann, but the mission will require us to do more than frighten the NSF with our baggy coats that make us look bigger than we really are.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2019 23:44
|
|
|
Also I never realized it playing the game but as soon as I saw the concept art Gunter Hermann is not quite but almost like an anagram of Rutger Hauer that concept is just like straight up Roy Batty.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2019 23:48
|
|
|
aniviron posted:I suspect there's a game design aspect to it too. Unreal 1 on the same engine handled huge open spaces on some of the levels with ease. But open areas with long sight lines make the stealth and combat gameplay loop a lot less interesting. Think about Liberty Island, and how easy it is to pick off guys with the sniper if you want to, about how if you're too far from someone stealthing is too easy and also unrealistic, but if you're too close there's nothing you can do to conceal yourself and make the encounter fun. The unbelievable part about this is that anyone would use the sniper rifle for sniping. The GEP gun is right there, man.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2019 00:07
|
|
|
It’s weird that it’s called the GEP gun and not the multitool.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2019 00:08
|
|
|
*slaps GEP gun* this bad boy can fit so many applications into it drone disabler door opener human resources management
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2019 00:10
|
|
|
Pakled posted:Yeah, for me it feels natural to use purely non-lethal force until you learn MJ12 orchestrated the attack on the Statue of Liberty and you send the NSF distress signal. After that it's pure gently caress everything. I always spare the UNATCO troopers at least because they don't know any better, but agreed on non-lethal apart from MJ12.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2019 00:54
|
|
|
Pakled posted:Yeah, for me it feels natural to use purely non-lethal force until you learn MJ12 orchestrated the attack on the Statue of Liberty and you send the NSF distress signal. After that it's pure gently caress everything. hell, same there isn't an equivalent point in HR or MD, unless you want to dunk on Belltower in Rifleman Bank station, and even then Keitner gives you a pretty severe frown if you do. What a shame.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2019 02:03
|
|
|
Farrier Theaks posted:there isn't an equivalent point in HR or MD, unless you want to dunk on Belltower in Rifleman Bank station, and even then Keitner gives you a pretty severe frown if you do. What a shame. I have to disagree. My first playthrough of HR I had this exact feeling from the original DX, where in the first detroit hub area and in the opening level against the terrorists I was cool being not-very-murdery, but then the moment you're in the FEMA camp with the spec ops guys who crippled you in the first place it's like, "Oh, they did NOT." and the gloves came off.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2019 02:31
|
|
|
I was full pacifist until Belltower knocked Malik's jet out of the sky. Just started murdering them all to save her and kept up with it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2019 02:45
|
|
|
Orcs and Ostriches posted:I was full pacifist until Belltower knocked Malik's jet out of the sky. Just started murdering them all to save her and kept up with it. Yeah I felt like this was the moment that was make or break for most non-committed pacifists, the game didn't really convey that you had time to pacify the guards without loosing her and I'll be damned if I'm going to lose her.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2019 03:05
|
|
|
Yeah, fair points. I think I kept non-lethal out of habit more than anything, but you're right - those moments (and the one where the goons crash the pod hotel and murder the guests) are great points to go full clownshoe
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2019 03:30
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Agent Navarre does not approve. Oh that's it! That's the moment - the game straight up makes you choose between letting someone get murdered or going lethal! And once you've killed one UNATCO agent it's a threshold that gives you permission to move towards treating the others as bad buys. That moment on the plane needs to be taught in game design classes as an absolute masterpiece in using gameplay to engage the player in the plot and the game world.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2019 10:38
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Oh that's it! I remember playing the game twice and killing the guy thinking I had to. On my third playthrough, which was basically a mess around and try to break everything in the game playthrough, I blasted Navarre and the fact that it wasn't a game over blew my young mind.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2019 13:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 12:14 |
|
|
Alchenar posted:Oh that's it!  After he gives his little peptalk and approves of my actions the gloves come off though. It's just much faster and much less of a hassle to gun everyone down - places to be, people to see, schedules to keep and all that. Lebadev always got left alone since killing him always seemed to be wrong (his minions were disposable) so I just let Anna commit the war crimes. Then I discovered you could plant a LAM just outside his doorway and that solved both problems at the same time. Killing Gunther was always kind of a sad affair after that. Truly no one gave a poo poo about that man or how he felt. But hey, you're in the way and we can't have that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2019 13:13
|
|
