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FAUXTON posted:That gets me wondering whether anything (Sensible Stalin, Trotsky Sticks Around, etc) would have changed the ability of the Soviet Union to respond to Barbarossa. 1. Stick with the 1940 war planning that assumed the German main effort would be north of Prypiat rather than South. 2. Counter Mobilise. Realistically the USSR could have had around 4 weeks notice of Barbarossa and used that time to react. They still probably have a really rough 1941, but the airforce could have been dispersed, command and control protected, forces brought up to substantially higher readiness. Even the worst case scenario there has a more capable Soviet second echelon hitting the Panzer spearheads earlier, which pushes the German timetable back.
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Jul 12, 2019 13:57
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FAUXTON posted:That gets me wondering whether anything (Sensible Stalin, Trotsky Sticks Around, etc) would have changed the ability of the Soviet Union to respond to Barbarossa. Not allying with Hitler against Poland, not selling valuable raw materials to Nazis, and not helping Germany rebuild its army and navy in secret would have made Barbarossa weaker. And and not wasting troops invading Finland would have made the Red Army stronger. ChubbyChecker fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Jul 12, 2019 |
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Jul 12, 2019 14:08
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3. Not dissolve Tank Corps and abolish deep battle and mobile warfare as a doctrine and distribute tanks to infantry support batallions because you're paranoid af and think concentrating tanks in large units is a coup plot by tank generals, only to reform them in a panic in 1941 after Germany shows that it's a cool and good move in battle of France, leaving armored forces in total disarray when they invade 4. Not loving trust Hitler to not violate the truce and forbid the army to prepare even as Germany masses it's entire goddamn army at the border, wtf dude
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Jul 12, 2019 14:10
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 Come and laze in our new colonial holdings. Bring your horse.
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Jul 12, 2019 14:25
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zoux posted:
Good pay(?) - No(,) Expenses!
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Jul 12, 2019 14:26
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I dunno, the failures of the winter war was important in teaching the Soviets many important lessons, the problem was that they didn't have time to implement them. maybe they should have invaded finland earlier
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Jul 12, 2019 14:27
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5. Not being incredibly brutal to minority ethnicities thereby making hate your government and tempting them towards collaboration. 6. In the years leading up to the Nazis coming to power, not telling your puppet German party that the biggest threat to Germany is the Socialist party and that they should work with the Nazis to weaken them.
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Jul 12, 2019 14:32
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ChubbyChecker posted:Communists support colonialism though. Just look what the Soviet Union did to its indigenous people and other minorities. Many communists are not Leninists, Stalinists or any flavour of USSR fan
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Jul 12, 2019 14:33
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At 5'5'', Lenin was himself a mini communist
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Jul 12, 2019 14:35
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Many communists are not Leninists, Stalinists or any flavour of USSR fan Ah, the Maoists  I jest
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Jul 12, 2019 14:40
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It's a bit late now since they are already a few weeks into Barbarossa. But the Real Time WWII day by day twitter account could barely go a day without another new hint that Barbarossa was coming in the last few months.
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Jul 12, 2019 14:43
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Fangz posted:I dunno, the failures of the winter war was important in teaching the Soviets many important lessons, the problem was that they didn't have time to implement them. Counterpoint: failures of winter war hardly taught red army anything else than “cold sucks” and “you need roads to move armies around” which, has red army stayed with the idea of deep battle to begin with, should’ve been foregone conclusions. Maybe the importance of close-range automatic firepower. However very late winter war did serve as proving ground for KV-1, so it got that advantage.
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Jul 12, 2019 14:44
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Ardent Communist posted:Of course, the funnier answer is that they required massive amounts of water to make spaghetti in the desert, so their supply lines weren't able to handle their operations and they collapsed like a tower of cards when pushed, but I'm pretty sure that "needs massive water to make spaghetti in the desert" was just a meme, so it's probably got more to do with the former theories. Don Gato posted:Needing more water to make pasta is a myth that started with a African Theater wargame with extremely Don Gato is correct. The game in question is Campaign for North Africa, published by SPI as a sort of thought experiment ("how complicated can we make a wargame?")  Jobbo_Fett posted:Italian pasta in cans came in tomato sauce, and were/could be cooked without removing the contents from the can. This is correct as well. An old Italian North Africa veteran wrote to SPI to correct Richard Berg, the designer to point out that yes, the pasta was cooked in the tomato sauce, and Berg published his letter in S&T Magazine. - - - The standard Italian ration they would have used in the desert, the Rarione Giornaliera (RG, "Daily Ration," looked like this:  It was packed in squad-sized portions with large tins of fruit, coffee (both soluble and ground varieties in 100 gram tins), boxed sugar, pasta, hard bread, sweets, fish tins, meat tins and small 1 and 2 portion-sized tins of prepared meal items or condensed soups. There were, of course, other ways food was sent to the soldati - garrison mess halls, larger unit field messes, etc. I will note that the 1929 "Telo mimetico" camouflage the RG meal is displayed on is post-war. Cessna fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jul 12, 2019 |
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Jul 12, 2019 14:45
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supply rules that then became an early proto-meme and is still sometimes quoted as a fact.
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Epicurius posted:5. Not being incredibly brutal to minority ethnicities thereby making hate your government and tempting them towards collaboration.
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Jul 12, 2019 14:53
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Agean90 posted:Good pay(?) - No(,) Expenses! lol, what is this from the Spanish-American or Philippine-American War?
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Jul 12, 2019 15:35
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gay black social democrat Hitler hanging out with weed stalin to denounce the brutal colonial regimes of Britain France and italy
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Jul 12, 2019 15:35
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Squalid posted:lol, what is this from the Spanish-American or Philippine-American War? It's from 1898 so depending on what month it was released in could be post or pre-Spanish-American War. Those lads sure don't look like they preparing to oust the perfidious Spaniard though.
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Jul 12, 2019 15:40
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bewbies posted:where the gently caress did the word "tankie" come from? Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Many communists are not Leninists, Stalinists or any flavour of USSR fan
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Jul 12, 2019 15:41
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You communists sure are a contentious people
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Jul 12, 2019 15:44
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Didn't stop anyone from getting shitfaced together. Someone unearthed a report in Cheka archives about investigations of a party that allegedly cost up to half a million rubles in government money for 40 people (some of which were from a "certain politically opposed group") with wine and a live orchestra.
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Jul 12, 2019 16:01
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zoux posted:You communists sure are a contentious people you've made a class enemy for life
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Jul 12, 2019 16:11
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Ensign Expendable posted:Didn't stop anyone from getting shitfaced together. Someone unearthed a report in Cheka archives about investigations of a party that allegedly cost up to half a million rubles in government money for 40 people (some of which were from a "certain politically opposed group") with wine and a live orchestra. 12500 rubles per person.  At the time of this report, what was the average wage of a Russian worker?
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Jul 12, 2019 16:17
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Ensign Expendable posted:Didn't stop anyone from getting shitfaced together. Someone unearthed a report in Cheka archives about investigations of a party that allegedly cost up to half a million rubles in government money for 40 people (some of which were from a "certain politically opposed group") with wine and a live orchestra. I mean, that seems to be from 1920. I'm willing to bet things were a bit different by, say, 1932...
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Jul 12, 2019 16:22
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Ensign Expendable posted:Didn't stop anyone from getting shitfaced together. Someone unearthed a report in Cheka archives about investigations of a party that allegedly cost up to half a million rubles in government money for 40 people (some of which were from a "certain politically opposed group") with wine and a live orchestra.
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Jul 12, 2019 16:23
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Spacewolf posted:12500 rubles per person. The average monthly salary for a worker was 46.4 rubles in 1925, this report is from 1920 though. Another source gives the average salary at 600 rubles, so presumably there was some kind of reform in between.
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Jul 12, 2019 16:25
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Nessus posted:Was there a Molotov-Ribbentrop cocktail? Ribbentrop was a 27 year old traveling wine salesman at the time, so he might have had some sweet recipes. Molotov was 30 and secretary to the Central Committee of the Ukrainian Bolshevik Party, so probably not so much, just, like, cheap vodka?
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Jul 12, 2019 16:26
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They liked to joke that the AM on the meat tin stands for asino morte 
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Jul 12, 2019 16:29
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aphid_licker posted:They liked to joke that the AM on the meat tin stands for asino morte haha
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Jul 12, 2019 16:33
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Ensign Expendable posted:The average monthly salary for a worker was 46.4 rubles in 1925, this report is from 1920 though. Another source gives the average salary at 600 rubles, so presumably there was some kind of reform in between. 600 rubles a year is 50 a month, so the two figures arent that far off.
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Jul 12, 2019 17:00
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Epicurius posted:600 rubles a year is 50 a month, so the two figures arent that far off. They are both monthly, salaries in Russia are traditionally given per month. There is also an idea of how much this could realistically buy: 600 rubles in 1918 bought you 246 kg of potatoes in 1918, 58 rubles in 1926 bought you 902 kg of potatoes.
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Jul 12, 2019 17:03
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I think that's too many potatoes
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Jul 12, 2019 17:25
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Was the currency redecimalized or replaced with a New Ruble at some point?
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Jul 12, 2019 17:31
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Ensign Expendable posted:They are both monthly, salaries in Russia are traditionally given per month. There is also an idea of how much this could realistically buy: 600 rubles in 1918 bought you 246 kg of potatoes in 1918, 58 rubles in 1926 bought you 902 kg of potatoes.
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Jul 12, 2019 17:42
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:I think that's too many potatoes Check out the Englishman thinking somebody has too much potatoes
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Jul 12, 2019 17:48
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Ensign Expendable posted:They are both monthly, salaries in Russia are traditionally given per month. There is also an idea of how much this could realistically buy: 600 rubles in 1918 bought you 246 kg of potatoes in 1918, 58 rubles in 1926 bought you 902 kg of potatoes. Are there even that many potatoes?
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Jul 12, 2019 18:04
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zoux posted:Check out the Englishman thinking somebody has too much potatoes Wow, I'm feeling the sting of racial prejudice here
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Jul 12, 2019 18:15
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Wow, I'm feeling the sting of racial prejudice here Help help we're being oppressed
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Jul 12, 2019 18:29
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So I'm going to CineD this thread a little. What are the most accurate military scenes you have seen in film? For example, I remember I had a professor in undergrad who focused on American-Colonial history who thought that the siege of Fort William Henry scene in "Last of the Mohicans" was reasonably accurate as far as depicting 18th century siege warfare. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgkKH_OkvWk I've generally soured on the movie recently (most for it's overtly pro-confederate overtones) but I always found "Gettysburg's" depiction of Pickett's Charge to be a fairly accurate representation as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2ptN5K4Vy8
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Jul 12, 2019 18:44
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that scene in jarhead where everyone is masturbating in the bathroom
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Jul 12, 2019 18:58
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The dog waiting for his pilot buddy to come back in Battle of Britain.
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Jul 12, 2019 19:29
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