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MiddleOne posted:Yeah ditching Romance ditches the entire conceit of the game. I don't think this is true. Records mode plays pretty much the same way as Romance on the Strategic Map.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:37
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Some events also change depending on whether you're in Romance or Records mode, so playing each version once is worth a go.
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Jul 12, 2019 22:48
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playing with the han empire mod is kinda funny  edit: honestly i think it might make the game way too easy, though
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Jul 12, 2019 23:16
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Blooming Brilliant posted:Some events also change depending on whether you're in Romance or Records mode, so playing each version once is worth a go. Cool. I'll plan for a records military conquest with Gongsun Zan (because I'm a fan of the old conquer-every-province part of Total War) and then do a Romance game with a fun-sounding general. I know almost nothing about China and even less about this period in Chinese history and i gotta tell you it's a blast learning about all these people and having the wiki open on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms
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Jul 12, 2019 23:27
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Blooming Brilliant posted:Pang De has wrecked shop in my Lu Bu game (might as well rename the Ma Teng start "Lu Bu's power hour" yeah, it's fitting his once-per-battle "delete everything in front of me" ability is called God of War
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Jul 12, 2019 23:33
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Farrier Theaks posted:I know almost nothing about China and even less about this period in Chinese history and i gotta tell you it's a blast learning about all these people and having the wiki open on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms Keep in mind Romance of the Three Kingdoms is at best loosely history. If you want history read Records of the Three Kingdoms, it's not very long.
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Jul 12, 2019 23:35
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Grand Fromage posted:Keep in mind Romance of the Three Kingdoms is at best loosely history. If you want history read Records of the Three Kingdoms, it's not very long. Great, thanks. Dong Zhou died about 20 turns in, is that normal?
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Jul 13, 2019 01:13
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Farrier Theaks posted:Great, thanks. I had Dong Zhou die on turn 3, the fat gently caress's life expectancy is based entirely on when Lu Bu decides to make his move.
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Jul 13, 2019 01:20
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Dong Zhuo can die early on by event, but turn 20 seems a bit late for that. Maybe someone captured and executed him?
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Jul 13, 2019 01:20
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I've had Dong Zhuo survive past turn twenty once in a hundred hours of play.
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Jul 13, 2019 01:27
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haha okay. It seemed like the campaign was setting him up as the long-term threat but that's TW i guess
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Jul 13, 2019 01:44
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Farrier Theaks posted:haha okay. It seemed like the campaign was setting him up as the long-term threat but that's TW i guess That’s how the real 3 Kingdoms goes. The big names “come together” to defeat Dong Zhuo, immediately dissolve into petty infighting, and then Dong gets assassinated by his own dudes in 192 with no help from the coalition, who are busy plunging the country in a century of civil war from which none of them emerges as the next ruler of China.
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Jul 13, 2019 01:51
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if you marry dong min into your own faction before dong zhuo is killed, do you just inherit the entire thing?
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Jul 13, 2019 02:06
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No, inheritance only within faction
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Jul 13, 2019 02:09
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Also ewww marrying Dong Min.
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Jul 13, 2019 02:17
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That’s how the real 3 Kingdoms goes. The big names “come together” to defeat Dong Zhuo, immediately dissolve into petty infighting, and then Dong gets assassinated by his own dudes in 192 with no help from the coalition, who are busy plunging the country in a century of civil war from which none of them emerges as the next ruler of China. this owns
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Jul 13, 2019 02:34
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Three Kingdoms is good and you should read up about it. Learn about one of history's greatest con-artists, Liu Bei.
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Jul 13, 2019 03:12
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Three Kingdoms is basically a bunch of con artists having a war and then Sima Yi's grandkid wins somehow.
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Jul 13, 2019 03:15
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He had the better economy. Shu was never rich, and Wu fell into long disorder over the succession. Really, with Wei/Jin holding the whole north, it was only a matter of time.
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Jul 13, 2019 03:26
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Funky Valentine posted:Three Kingdoms is basically a bunch of con artists having a war and then Sima Yi's grandkid wins somehow. Blooming Brilliant posted:Three Kingdoms is good and you should read up about it. Like, I would love a reading of Romance of the Three Kingdoms that played up Liu Bei as a smug, scheming bastard, because it would be the best thing, but it's less likely to happen than Yuan Shu being playable in Dynasty Warriors.
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Jul 13, 2019 03:28
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:Like, I would love a reading of Romance of the Three Kingdoms that played up Liu Bei as a smug, scheming bastard, because it would be the best thing, but it's less likely to happen than Yuan Shu being playable in Dynasty Warriors. 
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Jul 13, 2019 03:41
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Man, and I thought Alcibiades commanding the Athenian navy while avoiding trial in the city itself after having defected back from the Spartans because he got caught sleeping with the king's wife was impressive.
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Jul 13, 2019 03:44
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Liu Bei must have been just amazingly charming and persuasive to have got away with the poo poo that he pulled. IMO the most significant historical characters were Cao Cao, Sun Quan, Zhuge Liang and Sima Yi.
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Jul 13, 2019 03:48
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The nanman was the best and most important
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Jul 13, 2019 03:59
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Zhuge Liang wasn't quite the tactical genius that he gets credit for in the Romance, but he also didn't waste all of Shu-Han's strength on foolish expeditions. Zhuge Liang was a famously cautious commander. Even the Empty Fort Strategy only worked because everyone believed he was way too cautious to ever have a real empty fort. In his Zhuge Liang northern expeditions (invasions), he'd always withdraw when things got dicey, so Shu didn't lose that many solders during those campaigns. On the other hand, Jiang Wei's eleven northern expeditions were a huge waste that sapped all of Shu-Han's strength and set them up for future ruin.
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Jul 13, 2019 04:34
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golden bubble posted:Zhuge Liang wasn't quite the tactical genius that he gets credit for in the Romance, but he also didn't waste all of Shu-Han's strength on foolish expeditions. Zhuge Liang was a famously cautious commander. Even the Empty Fort Strategy only worked because everyone believed he was way too cautious to ever have a real empty fort. In his Zhuge Liang northern expeditions (invasions), he'd always withdraw when things got dicey, so Shu didn't lose that many solders during those campaigns. On the other hand, Jiang Wei's eleven northern expeditions were a huge waste that sapped all of Shu-Han's strength and set them up for future ruin. Lu Xun often gets overlooked but I would honestly put him over Zhuge Liang as a battlefield commander.
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Jul 13, 2019 04:42
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Wait if that's what really happens in the book how did the honorable benevolent Liu Bei/untrustworthy betrayer Cao Cao narrative come about
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Jul 13, 2019 06:07
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Wait if that's what really happens in the book how did the honorable benevolent Liu Bei/untrustworthy betrayer Cao Cao narrative come about
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Jul 13, 2019 06:26
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Wait if that's what really happens in the book how did the honorable benevolent Liu Bei/untrustworthy betrayer Cao Cao narrative come about Different cultural views/values. Westerners tend to be more Cao Cao fans and hate Liu Bei. Also the novel invents some villainous stuff for Cao Cao that he never did.
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Jul 13, 2019 06:35
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Wait if that's what really happens in the book how did the honorable benevolent Liu Bei/untrustworthy betrayer Cao Cao narrative come about The eventual winners of Jin fell apart in a civil war and overly relying on tribal mercenaries so when the ethnic Han Chinese relocated to the south the local propaganda was "well if our boys of Shu-Han had won instead of those Wei/Jin assholes we wouldn't be suffering like this" and the government rolled with it.
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Jul 13, 2019 06:41
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Took me a while to get into the game but man I looked up and 3 hours had passed, glad to see CA still has it. I think I'm enjoying this more than any TW in a long time, probably since the final (and modded to gently caress) version of Rome
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Jul 13, 2019 06:47
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Grand Fromage posted:Different cultural views/values. Westerners tend to be more Cao Cao fans and hate Liu Bei. Also the novel invents some villainous stuff for Cao Cao that he never did. Dunno, us Chinese love Cao Cao too. He's got such flair and pizzazz.
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Jul 13, 2019 07:04
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super-redguy posted:Dunno, us Chinese love Cao Cao too. He's got such flair and pizzazz. Modern Chinese culture doesn't have much connection to the past, I think views have changed. But I'm also going off a Chinese literature scholar I knew in China for the differing views. I never met a Chinese person who'd read Romance.  And I don't blame them, I think I managed a hundred pages before giving up. But everyone knows the story since the only things ever on TV are adaptations of Romance, Journey to the West, Generic Tang Costume Drama, Generic Murdering Japanese People Show, and copies of Korean variety shows that are themselves copies of Japanese variety shows.
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Jul 13, 2019 07:13
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Why was Romance the one to creep through the state controls? It's not like there aren't other periods in history where, albeit mostly briefly, China united.
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Jul 13, 2019 07:22
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It's insanely popular. Suppressing it would've been impossible. Water Margin and Dream of the Red Chamber are the other two of the big four (all lists must be numbered) novels but they aren't as popular.
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Jul 13, 2019 07:26
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Grand Fromage posted:Different cultural views/values. Westerners tend to be more Cao Cao fans and hate Liu Bei. Also the novel invents some villainous stuff for Cao Cao that he never did. That's not necessarily true, Mao Zedong famously thought Cao Cao was the real hero.
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Jul 13, 2019 07:33
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Arglebargle III posted:That's not necessarily true, Mao Zedong famously thought Cao Cao was the real hero. Not sure I'd take Mao as representative of traditional Chinese cultural views.
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Jul 13, 2019 07:57
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Grand Fromage posted:It's insanely popular. Suppressing it would've been impossible. Water Margin and Dream of the Red Chamber are the other two of the big four (all lists must be numbered) novels but they aren't as popular. water margin owns This fish is my brother, you will treat him as such
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Jul 13, 2019 08:25
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What I heard was that Cao Cao was actually regarded as the hero for a couple hundred years after the period but various political and cultural factors (Confucianisn got big and they hated him) led to the spin of him being the villain. The author also identified strongly with Zhuge Liang and ended up stealing alot of top moments and giving them to him.
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Jul 13, 2019 15:42
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Cao Cao has a JJ Lin song about him so he's good and my friend. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J_bkgexrE8
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Jul 13, 2019 16:10
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