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oh yeah i'll agree with that. that seemed like a sequence that was someone at id's baby and they refused to let it go
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Jul 12, 2019 22:41
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Which sequence are we talking about exactly? He (iirc) spent most of the game punching things and being told to go punch power conduits etc.
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Jul 12, 2019 23:21
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The writing in doom 4 was great, but lots of it they were smart enough to hide in the corners and let you run past if you weren't interested. Some people don't know how much there is about the night sentinels and argent and all that, and I think that's cool. Things you can choose to investigate if you want, or things to notice on re-plays. But then they still have some forced cutscenes. We discussed in the Doom 4 thread many times how it'd be nice if they'd let you just like Press F to give the NPC the finger and skip the cutscene. If you wanna watch it, you can watch it. If you wanna skip it, you can skip it. Seems ideal, right?
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Jul 12, 2019 23:21
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Most of DOOM 4's cutscenes are like a five second animation of you breaking a thing while Hayden tries desperately to get a full sentence out before you run off to break more of his things. There's the one time Hayden locks you in a room to force you to listen to his spiel about how he only has mankind's best interest at heart when opening the gate to hell but there are load screens that are longer than that segment so it never really bothers me. Maybe Eternal will fix it by letting you skip it or perhaps even not even having an obligatory minute long bit where you're stuck in a room doing not much of anything.
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Jul 12, 2019 23:52
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Serephina posted:Which sequence are we talking about exactly? He (iirc) spent most of the game punching things and being told to go punch power conduits etc. The one where you're forced to stand in robotman's office and listen to him monologuing at you, I'd assume.
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Jul 12, 2019 23:55
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More shooters should take a cue from Postal 2: Paradise Lost, where there's a long-winded explanation as to what's been going on around Paradise in the last 11 years, but if you don't care/are in a hurry/whatever, you can just kick the guy delivering the exposition and he'll go "fine, no backstory for you, bitch" and skip straight to the end.
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Jul 13, 2019 00:00
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alternatively: don't take any lessons from postal games
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Jul 13, 2019 02:14
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We have a new beta up for Blood FS: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1010750/discussions/0/1640916564839813299/quote:
(Yeesh that first comment in the thread is ridiculous)
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Jul 13, 2019 02:50
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Zaphod42 posted:The writing in doom 4 was great, but lots of it they were smart enough to hide in the corners and let you run past if you weren't interested. Some people don't know how much there is about the night sentinels and argent and all that, and I think that's cool. Things you can choose to investigate if you want, or things to notice on re-plays. Katana Zero literally has this dialogue feature. Its incredible.
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Jul 13, 2019 02:51
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ETPC posted:alternatively: don't take any lessons from postal games yeah
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Jul 13, 2019 02:59
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Holy moly I finally gave Quake a proper go and beat episode 1. This game is so fun. Or at least episode 1 is, I don’t know about the rest yet. But yeah, the music is good, the shooting is fun, the weapons feel meaty. The level design was mixed but overall I enjoyed it more than, day, doom episode 3 Speaking of doom, this game weirdly makes me appreciate what that game has going on all the more.
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Jul 13, 2019 03:04
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skasion posted:The best thing about Doom 4 is that it has actual secrets and rewards you for moving around the map looking for them. But at cross purpose to that (and I absolutely hate this) it has a strong tendency to lock you into a fight. Even if there are probably sound performance reasons for doing this it is just irritating. Yeah this about where I'm settling on it, with only about 2 levels left to go. Most of the bits and pieces feel really good in isolation, but when put together they don't quite mesh together right. Like each enemy by itself has the right mix of behaviors, animations, and sound cues, but when put all together into yet another conveniently circular arena with platforms suddenly half of them are loving obnoxious and you tend to get blindsided too often because their AI just lets them go anywhere they want. I get not wanting the game's focus on verticality to hobble the AI, but you get chased down in pretty ridiculous ways by Pinkies and Mancubi when I don't think you really should. It also makes encounters not feel like they're meaningfully designed; with minimal control over the player's coordinates at any given time they can't really sell memorable "oh poo poo" moments because, say, spawning in a pair of Barons will lack the proper impact because I could be staring at a wall in some arbitrary corner picking my nose and they reach me at varying times based on the map layout. Plan Z posted:The worst part about Doom 4 are those challenges that make you play a level in a way that's less fun than just going through it. The big problem with them is that there's no consistency. There's a bunch of "contrive the perfect scenario where you can kill 5 zombie with one explosive barrel" type poo poo right next to a bunch that are just "find some secrets, stupid" (even though finding secrets already gives progress towards weapon upgrade points so it's weirdly redundant) right next to a handful of "do something actually kinda cool and please enjoy these contextual animations we spent so much time on" but then also right next to "repeatedly kill X enemy type with fiddly Y glory kill animation 5 times". One is for straight-up playing a Doom-themed Bejeweled easter egg...because...reasons. I'm also glad they don't dump every single mechanic on you at once, instead drip-feeding them over the first handful of levels, but once you do get your hands on all of them it's immediately apparent that they overdesigned this stuff. Way too much time faffing around worrying about challenges, weapon upgrade unlock conditions, and basically everything about runes. Runes were a bad idea, because inevitably some are just throwaway filler that nobody would ever use once better options present themselves (pickup vacuum) whereas others completely change the game for better or worse (speed after glory kill, infinite ammo from high armor, armor from glory kills) but since you can only have 3 equipped they can't actually design anything with them in mind. Edit: Oh, and the Cyber Demon fight sucked.  The Hell Guard fight or whatever they're called was a lot better.
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jul 13, 2019 |
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Jul 13, 2019 04:37
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Rocket Pan posted:We have a new beta up for Blood FS: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1010750/discussions/0/1640916564839813299/ Nice, thanks for continuing to push these out. Okay I have to ask, though--are you meant to "Pistol (Pitchfork) Start" Blood levels? I've been doing that for the most part, but I haven't figured out how to force it except to die and then let the game reload the level.
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Jul 13, 2019 05:55
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Nice, thanks for continuing to push these out. Can't say for certain, but while technically viable it's not explicitly expected of the user.
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Jul 13, 2019 06:06
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gently caress shamblers
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Jul 13, 2019 07:28
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100 degrees Calcium posted:gently caress shamblers Also, Shamblers only take half-damage from explosives, so use the Super Nailgun or the Thunderbolt where you can.
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Jul 13, 2019 07:58
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In fact it's way, way easier to bait Shamblers than Revenants because the Revenant punching animation is way quicker than the Shambler's slow-as-hell tearing animation. Like, I can semi-consistently bait a Shambler into a melee loop, I can't say the same about Revenants as yet.
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Jul 13, 2019 08:01
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My ideal Doom 5 doesnt tie anything to exploration but keeps secrets filled with weapons/armor/health, or at the very least let me backtrack through levels quickly. It also makes some other changes but thats the big one.
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Jul 13, 2019 08:12
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If you only use the bookmarks section to check your favorite threads, then you prob. didn't see this: Amid Evil is the Games forum's Game of the Month and as such has a nice sticky thread.
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Jul 13, 2019 08:43
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Yeah okay beat DOOM and the final levels are just not very good. The secrets are almost entirely phoned in, the already thin plot has devolved into nonsense ("blow up the AI core to tear open yet another portal to hell" said the robot man...but oh don't worry I kept a backup just in case that only I, the Doom Slayer, know about because reasons), and the encounter design takes a really noticeable step down. Instead of maps becoming more open and more complicated, the exact opposite happens with far more cramped areas that are hard to parse and/or navigate and powerups are so frequent as to make most fights a joke anyway. The Spider Mastermind fight also sucked and they hosed up the kill in the most obvious way possible (don't have Doomguy pull the trigger, have ME, the player, pull the trigger  ). The ending was also the most obvious thing ever and it blows that the Macguffin was set up well in advance and then just became more "see you in the sequel suckerrrrr" material.
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Jul 13, 2019 |
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Jul 13, 2019 09:30
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Thanks all for the recommendations! I'm a longtime console gamer but haven't had a PC that can play current stuff in well over a decade. Really excited to dig into the mod scene again. Plus there's some Doom TCs I've missed out on like 2063 
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Jul 13, 2019 17:17
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I'm playing Sunlust on UV and what's annoying me about the map designs is the heavy usage of situations where the player is in a very small arena but with a ton of monsters, which can lead to just getting pinned in a corner and murdered. Variants with a small but dangerous count can work out, like in the lava pit on Gear Up where a column pops up in the middle of the pit and a Revenant/Archvile spawn and you have to do a column dance while managing both of them (or just suck up the Archvile rezzing the Revenant). But then you hit poo poo like the room on Oneira where you have flanking ledges of imps, a Cyberdemon, and Hell Knights on the floor, but the Hell Knights are very difficult to get to infight with the Cyberdemon and Imps without, again, risking getting pinned in a corner and beaten to death. The author also seems to like the usage of resilient flanking elements in areas with cover (thinking the BFG room in Oneira for example, with the Cyberdemon/Barons at the BFG platform and flanking Hell Knights) which makes it a pain in the rear end to clear the flanking element and secure cover without potentially taking a ton of damage. The Imp/Chaingunner/Pain Elemental Room at the end of Cave Culture also combined the worst elements of both I think.
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Jul 13, 2019 17:33
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Doom4's pacing was thrown to the ground and shot in the back of the head execution style by the totality of its RPG/upgrade mechanics, challenges, runes, and mandatory secret hunts.
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Jul 13, 2019 17:34
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treat posted:Doom4's pacing was thrown to the ground and shot in the back of the head execution style by the totality of its RPG/upgrade mechanics, challenges, runes, and mandatory secret hunts. Thank you for reminding me to never, ever 100% video games. Doom 4 felt fine but I basically just did secret hunts when I felt like it and only did challenges for weapons I used all the time (really, just the shotgun).
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Jul 13, 2019 17:48
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The only thing I bother finding on repeat playthroughs in doom 4 are the energy pods for +max whatever. And I guess the rune trials. Both of those are always barely hidden though, and they're the ones that give meaningful rewards. I do wish I could just start with aerial mobility rune, though. John Murdoch posted:Edit: Oh, and the Cyber Demon fight sucked.
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Jul 13, 2019 17:58
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I would have liked Doom 2016's challenge stuff if it unlocked gameplay mutators and cheats instead of actually contributing to your game progress. As it is, they can be tedious but they also feel somewhat mandatory since it affects how quickly you can upgrade.
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Jul 13, 2019 18:00
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The Kins posted:You can bait Shamblers in much the same way that you can bait Revenants in Doom 2 - get up close, then step away when they launch into their melee attack animation, then step back once they miss, etc. (The Copper mod makes this less effective by slowly increasing a chance of having the Shambler just zap your rear end instead) Oh my god thank you!
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Jul 13, 2019 18:41
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If you're going to do the melee baiting trick you are obligated to use the super shotgun 
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Jul 13, 2019 19:04
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haveblue posted:If you're going to do the melee baiting trick you are obligated to use the super shotgun
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Jul 13, 2019 20:04
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Pyrolocutus posted:I'm playing Sunlust on UV and what's annoying me about the map designs is the heavy usage of situations where the player is in a very small arena but with a ton of monsters, which can lead to just getting pinned in a corner and murdered. The trick is not to shoot anything, but instead to rub up against the cyberdemon to wake him up and then and lead his rockets into the idle hell knights, removing the threat of projectiles and monsters boxing you in from behind while you take out the cyberdemon & largely ignore the imps. In encounters where everything has its back turned to you, there's a often some leeway for dismantling the worst parts of a trap without firing a shot just by smartly waking up monsters for infighting or to clear an escape route. Almost every encounter in Sunlust, especially in Ribbiks' more strictly controlled maps, has a specific strategy that's reliably repeatable if you can figure out the correct set of steps. Space control is in my opinion is the most interesting and unique element of Doom's combat. It applies to almost every kind of map, from really tightly balanced puzzle encounters like in sunlust to macro-scale encounters in slaughtermaps and is probably one of the most important skills to develop as a player. It's something players are constantly training, from the more fundamental level of being confident enough to stand your ground against a cluster of revenants and cyberdemons without fleeing out of a room or wildly circlestrafing into the unknown, to the handling of more extreme slaughtermap situations. Shaping larger mobs by simultaneously herding them around like a sheepdog, keeping your movement path and escape routes clear, being wary of snipers from outside of the main brawl and dodging projectiles, while figuring out how to defang an encounter is an absolute joy that you don't really get in other games. You can also think about the success of doom 2's bestiary in terms of how different enemies constrain how a player interacts and moves around in a given space and how they synergise in different combinations. Hitscan enemies force you to run to cover or use other enemies as cover and viles put a hard limit on a specific moment a player must be standing outside of its line of sight. The classic combination of the revenant and vile works well in my mind because it's the tension between the need to outmanoeuvre a revenant's homing projectile while being constrained in your options by the line of sight of an active vile. It's kind of shocking as to how these modern retro-oriented fps games never come close and end up with the two enemy archetypes of "fiend from quake that charges straight at you" and varieties of "fires projectiles in straight line at player" most of the time. Doom is quite good, really. Sunlust is one of the better things to come out of it.
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Jul 13, 2019 20:47
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Rocket Pan posted:Can't say for certain, but while technically viable it's not explicitly expected of the user. Yeah that’s what I figured. I’ve actually been having a pretty good time figuring my way through each level on Well Done with the “Pitchfork Start” angle. The cultists can be a little bullshitty but since I can’t accumulate an arsenal from level to level, I end up paying more attention to the levels to find secrets and give myself the upper hand in initial fights when you can be super under-armed.
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Jul 13, 2019 21:03
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Rocket Pan posted:We have a new beta up for Blood FS: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1010750/discussions/0/1640916564839813299/ Thanks for updating this again Are the video-related crashes fixed now?
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Jul 13, 2019 21:07
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The Early FPS Megathread - Rub up against the cyberdemon to wake him up
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Jul 13, 2019 21:28
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manero posted:The Early FPS Megathread - Rub up against the cyberdemon to wake him up To defeat the cyberdemon, rub it until it wakes up
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Jul 13, 2019 21:45
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Tulip posted:Thank you for reminding me to never, ever 100% video games. I did 99% of the stuff but by the end I had managed to miss a single lore scrap and needed to farm a handful more kills to get one last weapon upgrade and I just couldn't bring myself to put myself through that nonsense just for two cheevos.  I don't hate Rune Trials in theory but straight up sucking the player out of the level and through a load screen to go in and then another to go back is just the stupidest loving thing you could do to just take a great big dump on pacing. On top of half of them being boringly easy and the other half being tedious in place of difficult.
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Jul 13, 2019 21:49
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John Murdoch posted:I did 99% of the stuff but by the end I had managed to miss a single lore scrap and needed to farm a handful more kills to get one last weapon upgrade and I just couldn't bring myself to put myself through that nonsense just for two cheevos. also if you fail a trial and have to redo it, it needs to do the whole loading screen over again because reasons
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Jul 13, 2019 22:09
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Yessssss my children, you are becoming illuminated. You are beginning to see my glorious vision. Soon the world will understand, just as they learned of HL2 and Doom3 before it--that Retard4 too is a bad game!
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Jul 13, 2019 22:20
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All games are bad, we are all going to die, heaven isn't real. Also Plutonia is garbage for idiots
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Jul 13, 2019 22:28
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it's actually very good and you can just ignore all the collectibles besides the stuff that is just right there along the way if you aren't the kind of player who enjoys finding them calling it "Retard4" makes you look like a tool and a child
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Jul 13, 2019 22:29
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Convex posted:All games are bad, we are all going to die, heaven isn't real. Also Plutonia is garbage for idiots  koren posted:
my potentially hot take is that this is what I loved most about heretic, specifically the liches who had a decent variety of ways you needed to fight them And it's also the worst part of hexen: the wendigo being the only major variant on "straight at you" that isn't a boss
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Jul 13, 2019 22:37
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