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Server Side Object Container Streaming for those that don't participate in CIG's constant marketing lingo changes.
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Jul 15, 2019 15:31
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| # ? May 22, 2024 12:42 |
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Godmode Enabled posted:Anytime there is a new architecture I'd wait a few months for the bugs to get sorted out. There are a few games that don't work quite right on the new processor. I considered that but I am a huge nerd and this over rides common sense - See also the funding tracker
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Jul 15, 2019 15:45
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Virtual Captain posted:Server Side Object Container Streaming for those that don't participate in CIG's constant marketing lingo changes. ... isn't that, like, what all 3d games already do when you're not looking directly at something?
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Jul 15, 2019 15:46
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Colostomy Bag posted:You fricking heretic. Not going for the Optane solution. Yeah gently caress that, I have gone rogue. I miss SCSI tbh
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Jul 15, 2019 15:46
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skeletors_condom posted:I really like this comment about "feeling the power of CROSUCKOCS:" I see you glossed over all-at-once-ment; a particularly dim point. Oh, and you're right; there's a huge climbdown coming in terms of capability*, but it won't be Chris that lets people down, it'll be a considered opinion and socialized blame for the entire organisation. Edit: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/bxzjvt/when_is_server_meshing_coming/eqazha4/ - if you want to follow along. * "However, the thing to remember is that having servers tied to specific in-game locations is just a temporary stepping stone on the way to the full server meshing implementation. My guess and my hope is that we'll have left this temporary solution behind by the time new systems start coming online, but I'm not entirely sure how everything lines up on the roadmap, so I might be wrong about that. The reason we're considering having per location servers as a stepping stone at all, is that it would allow backers to begin testing parts of server meshing before all the other work on it has been completed. To start with, we'd put the boundaries between servers out in deep space so that they could only really be crossed during Quantum Travel. That would really limit, how often players and other entities transition between servers, the kinds of entities that need to transition, as well as what can be happening during a transition. As bugs are fixed and we gain confidence with the technology, we may divide locations between more servers. Ultimately though, the idea is not to have any fixed server boundaries. Instead a server will manage the game for a cluster of players. As the cluster spreads out, the area the server manages will grow, and as the players in a cluster bunch up, the area managed by the server shrinks. When clusters of players belonging to different servers overlap, the servers will decide whether to transition players between them, or even to break out a new cluster of players and spin up another server to handle it. In this version of server meshing, servers will only be assigned to locations where there are players, greatly reducing the number of servers we would otherwise need, and allowing the game to scale to higher player counts much more cheaply." Again, the problem is not about availability of compute, but it's shifting around the data that compute will consume; this is not a trivial problem. Map Reduce is fairly easy because you have a bound, and you can then split that into tracks, but attempting to do the same things with entirely shifting sands as to the _current location_ of a given entity is not fixed anywhere except for the persistence store. Hav fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Jul 15, 2019 |
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Jul 15, 2019 15:54
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skeletors_condom posted:I keep hearing citizens repeating that "ssocs touches every part of the game," what does that even mean? They're the audiophile speaker cables that add a good warmth to the sound.
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Jul 15, 2019 16:01
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peter gabriel posted:Yeah gently caress that, I have gone rogue. Yes, I too miss 50 pin plugs and terminators.
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Jul 15, 2019 16:16
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C-Bangin' it 
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skeletors_condom posted:I keep hearing citizens repeating that "ssocs touches every part of the game," what does that even mean? And why can't you put it on the roadmap even if it touches everything? Mission critical tasks always need estimates (at least something). We've had estimates, deadlines and they actually broke it down into several pieces before finally suggesting that they needed the server side OCS; Performance increases clientside by OCS were modest, to say the least, which leads to (current_patch + 1) being the time when they finally get it right. It was already the thing that was going to fix everything a while back, it didn't fix everything, so now they're pushing hard on the concept of 'server meshing', which is effectively joining up a bunch of EC2 instances into a supercomputer (if you subscribe to the fluff they've been spouting for _years_ about this). OCS itself was released in 3.3, November 2018. Network bind culling followed shortly afterwards. The first allows a 'container' to stream itself after an initial definition, which should allow for a network socket to handle the load of rendering a specific container, but increases network contention, and because you're essentially using UDP, any network hitches tend to result in incomplete builds. Network Bind Culling is about interest management at the networking level, meaning that it _calms_ the object streams to ones you care about. The larger problem that they have is network latency. Amazon runs a bunch of shared occupancy hypervisors. You don't get to choose which hypervisor you're running on, so a few heavy users of Amazon (ourselves included, although I'm avoiding AWS like the clap) do the over-provision and measure dance to make sure that we're getting the best performance that we can screw out of a commodity service. Seriously, if they manage what they're claiming, there's a couple of segments of industry that will be incredibly interested; they currently work on short-lived lambdas that are entirely self-contained and come close to the original definition of 'agents' that was doing the rounds in 1998, but to be honest, people with more money and effort have attempted to do this. Beowulf clusters were a big deal at one point, but they've been superseded. Hell, you can get some pure CUDA compute devices at the moment, but they're massively vertical. And don't come close to EC2. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_6pRpEnrlc&t=93s Bear in mind[sic] that the thing that he describes with the 'cup' is the persistence store. This is a big database that actually knows where poo poo is, and can be queried to build a location. This is computing 101 stuff. Hav fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jul 15, 2019 |
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Jul 15, 2019 16:18
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Colostomy Bag posted:Yes, I too miss 50 pin plugs and terminators. Plextor BURN proof for lyfe At the turn of the millennium I got a 'proper job' - only one I ever had, it was working at the UKs biggest PC parts place, and I was the top sales dude - simply because I knew about PC stuff well enough to spec and complete orders quicker than anyone else. It was all done on the phone  Man, the poo poo I knew back then about PC stuff was insane, it was in the period when AMD released the first Athlon, and the race to 1ghz PCs was on. That was a cool time, I should think of some stories, like, when a component came back as faulty what we used to do was put a small circular sticker on it, not test it and put it back on the shelf, if something came back with 3 stickers on it, we'd test it ha ha
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Jul 15, 2019 16:31
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https://clips.twitch.tv/GlamorousBlazingFriseeKeyboardCat
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Jul 15, 2019 16:35
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peter gabriel posted:Plextor BURN proof for lyfe I tried reading your post and got a buffer underrun.
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Jul 15, 2019 16:38
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Colostomy Bag posted:I tried reading your post and got a buffer underrun.
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Jul 15, 2019 16:40
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Dialling that end user flight experience right in there, well done CI Honestly, does CI
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Jul 15, 2019 16:43
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Landing Successfl
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Jul 15, 2019 16:47
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I don't know how the situation is in other countries, but with the all the foolproof plug-and-play nowadays (I mean...seriously....putting together a PC is so loving easy these days) I see less and less young people beeing even slightly interested init, opting for either consoles, tablets etc., and not even interested in pre-built PC systems. I hear from teachers that current pupils don't even know what to do when they are confronted with a computer mouse. We clearly need someone to save this!
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Jul 15, 2019 16:53
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peter gabriel posted:Hmmm, I decided to go for a Ryzen 3900x and a m.2 drive, I am going to benchmark SC and see what happens after the upgrade Might be better for you since you're not in Canada but I ordered my 3900x last sunday evening and my order still hasn't shipped because the processors are backordered.
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Jul 15, 2019 16:56
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tuo posted:We clearly need someone to save this! There is only one man for the job, Chris Roberts.
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Jul 15, 2019 16:59
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Colostomy Bag posted:There is only one man for the job, Chris Roberts. Our savior!
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Jul 15, 2019 17:06
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tuo posted:I don't know how the situation is in other countries, but with the all the foolproof plug-and-play nowadays (I mean...seriously....putting together a PC is so loving easy these days) I see less and less young people beeing even slightly interested init, opting for either consoles, tablets etc., and not even interested in pre-built PC systems. I hear from teachers that current pupils don't even know what to do when they are confronted with a computer mouse. I still remember building a batch of 5 cyrix PCs and finding out that setting the jumpers for the FSB and clock speed was not how they were meant to be done. None of them booted. Usually, say with an AMD K6 500mhz CPU you'd set the FSB to be 100mhz and the multiplier to be 5 using jumpers, simple, the cyrix though had gently caress knows what, it was written on the chip, to get 266mhz you did some mad poo poo like 23 x 12 or something. They were fun days, we had a guy who's nickname was '10 gig baz' cos he got a 10gb hard drive and it was earth shattering at the time, we'd laugh at how the hell is he going to fill that? Pilz posted:Might be better for you since you're not in Canada but I ordered my 3900x last sunday evening and my order still hasn't shipped because the processors are backordered. Yeah, there is a short delay here too
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Jul 15, 2019 17:20
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We had a customer (this is at a different place, a small shop where I worked on Saturdays mainly before the proper job) called Cliff, he was in his 80s I reckon, and he used to bring his PC to us in one of those 2 wheeled shopping carriers that old folk love, he drag it to the shop, PC bouncing around all the way and every time it was because of an issue with his hard drive, it always needed scan disking to write out corrupt sectors. So, we'd do that and he'd pick it up, always delighted that we'd fixed it. He never once paid us any money, instead he'd give us 'gifts' - We did the work cos we felt bad really, so it was OK. I remember he 'paid' us once with a jar of marmalade and a loving potato. We'd act surprised and happy, and he'd be on his way. He'd pack his PC up in his trolley and wander off, PC bouncing away behind him, and a couple of weeks later the cycle began anew.
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Jul 15, 2019 17:27
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JugbandDude posted:Landing Successfl As you can see, the new hover mode cleared those noclipping issues right up. Flight near the ground is now extremely fidelitous and looks great
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Jul 15, 2019 17:32
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Rotten Red Rod posted:... isn't that, like, what all 3d games already do when you're not looking directly at something? This is just a CIG rabbit hole in my opinion. The shortest way I can summarize this as bullshit is: CryEngine doesn't have this and is actually architected against it. So trying to hack it in after the fact has taken 6+ years and seemingly gets worse with every patch. If they were smart they'd have given up trying years ago. Hopefully all we are seeing is some pretend progress but I think Chris is dumb enough to think a couple interns can figure it out if he keeps enough pressure on them. You can jump back to page 5069 to see more talk about this but here are two combined posts that are quite good if you need more in-depth dissection of why everything CIG says regarding playercount/streaming/culling is a misdirection: PederP posted:The version of CryEngine they based everything on has a multiplayer library which is awful in many different ways - even for a map-based game with a handful of players.
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Jul 15, 2019 17:40
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nvm... double post (of sorts).
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Jul 15, 2019 17:59
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Rotten Red Rod posted:... isn't that, like, what all 3d games already do when you're not looking directly at something? No, it's server-side. It's basically their buzzword for Interest Management and Load Balancing: If no player is close to space station X then the server doesn't need to load any component of that station. If a player gets close to X then the server has to become aware of it and, if this increases its load to an unacceptable degree, it sheds the responsibility of handling space station X to another server. Most modern games actually do not do this because it is better to design a game that uses instances and the like to avoid that sort of error-prone architecture.
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Jul 15, 2019 18:08
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Dementropy posted:Rummage sale: is that a loving lead balloon? how apt.
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Jul 15, 2019 18:18
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peter gabriel posted:I still remember building a batch of 5 cyrix PCs and finding out that setting the jumpers for the FSB and clock speed was not how they were meant to be done. None of them booted. That was the DX4 era of Blue Lightning. Cyrix were competing with Athlon and IBM for the clocking market. DX2 worked off 2x clock multipliers, DX4 was 3x, but there was an amount of uncertainty when you had a three-multiple base clock speed. Played havoc with Vesa Local Bus at 33MHz. Those were interesting times, I never thought that Plug'n'play would actually work, but going EISA payed off in the long run.
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Jul 15, 2019 18:19
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tuo posted:I hear from teachers that current pupils don't even know what to do when they are confronted with a computer mouse. I know adults like this, so I shouldn't actually worry. I will laugh heartily at the number of otherwise normal and well-considered people that assumed that the generation following mine (X) would somehow be entirely immersed in computing to the degree that they would be some form of 'native'. You know, the same way us Seventies kids know everything about the internal combustion engine. People forget that you have to have a will to doing this kind of thing, and right now it's mainly a rush to 'build an app' coming from parents, which is quite a long tail.
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Jul 15, 2019 18:28
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Hav posted:That was the DX4 era of Blue Lightning. Cyrix were competing with Athlon and IBM for the clocking market. DX2 worked off 2x clock multipliers, DX4 was 3x, but there was an amount of uncertainty when you had a three-multiple base clock speed. Played havoc with Vesa Local Bus at 33MHz. Vesa/Cyrix chips where easy upgrades to get some life. But EISA....let me dig through a pile of floppies. Any work on Microchannel?
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Jul 15, 2019 18:39
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Hav posted:That was the DX4 era of Blue Lightning. Cyrix were competing with Athlon and IBM for the clocking market. DX2 worked off 2x clock multipliers, DX4 was 3x, but there was an amount of uncertainty when you had a three-multiple base clock speed. Played havoc with Vesa Local Bus at 33MHz. Would it not be PR ratings instead? In the Pentium era, if Intel had a 200 MHz Pentium, AMD and Cyrix had a "PR-200" or similar that was clocked lower than 200 MHz. It was supposed to be Pentium-equivalent. It wasn't.
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Jul 15, 2019 18:46
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Virtual Captain posted:Server Side Object Container Streaming for those that don't participate in CIG's constant marketing lingo changes. And it must be pointed out again and again that this is basic poo poo that games do and most of them never bother to give it fancy bullshit names because they aren't trying to appease their cult with fake updates. None of this, none of it, absolutely none is new or cutting edge in any way. All of this was done decades ago.
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Jul 15, 2019 18:59
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https://twitter.com/wtfosaurus/status/1150828051036430336
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Jul 15, 2019 19:04
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Sarsapariller posted:God I would absolutely loathe a game where NPC's engaged in the level of cockfuckery that people get up to. Sometimes you just want to wail on a punching bag for a while, you know? I don't want to hyper-optimize my flange capacitors or whatever just to loving shoot some chilldankli in their flying bong ships. Yeah, basically only in pure competitive pvp games do NPCs behave anything like players. In most games NPCs are intentionally dumber and weaker for a reason. But lots of people don't understand why things exist in games. Ironically if anything I think going the other way is the smart move. Like how in Titanfall they had NPC mooks that were easy to shoot even if you were bad at FPS games. Some people didn't like that but people are dumb; its a good concept and I'd like to see it in more games. Imagine if in battlefield there were actually like a thousand dudes running around, and all the actual humans were officers. You could have squads of AIs actually hanging together and behaving the way a military squad should, and following their officer's orders, rather than just a bunch of yahoo kids playing like quake with a ww2 skin.
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Jul 15, 2019 19:08
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skeletors_condom posted:A backer comes close to getting it:  Star Citizen: the name of CR joins Ponzi and Madoff in the infamous anals of history
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Jul 15, 2019 19:09
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Zaphod42 posted:Ironically if anything I think going the other way is the smart move. Like how in Titanfall they had NPC mooks that were easy to shoot even if you were bad at FPS games. Some people didn't like that but people are dumb; its a good concept and I'd like to see it in more games. It is in quite a few games! They're just mostly MOBAs, unfortunately, and come with all the MOBA trappings that ruin the enjoyment of the game for everyone except those who are already good at/enjoy MOBAs. Too bad, because I've always wanted that same thing - a Battlefield-like game where the players play the heroes, and I always enjoy every game that meshes co-op and PvP. Titanfall 2, Destiny 2's gambit mode, L4D's versus mode... All of them are a ton of fun, and Dark Souls' very different (but also very fun) form of invasion appeals a lot to me, and I'm looking forward to Doom Eternal's version of it. On the flipside, bots designed to feel like players... Are not fun. I remember buying Brink on release for Xbox 360 (I know, I know) and a particular problem for the version on that platform was that the servers (or peer-to-peer connection, whatever it was in that game) couldn't actually handle enough people to fill up a game, so every game would be more than half bots. It got even worse once the player count (very quickly) dipped too low to sustain any full games, but even on launch, almost every game I played was half or more bots, and you could REALLY tell.
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Jul 15, 2019 19:19
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Too Big To Fail huh
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Jul 15, 2019 19:24
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Contingency posted:Would it not be PR ratings instead? In the Pentium era, if Intel had a 200 MHz Pentium, AMD and Cyrix had a "PR-200" or similar that was clocked lower than 200 MHz. It was supposed to be Pentium-equivalent. It wasn't. Yeah that was there angle, it was always funny, they were the poo poo tier PC which was fine, but Cyrix was all "aaactually it says 233 right on the chip  " and it just totally wasn't - I have loads of fun memories from back then, that shop was a pit of financial despair but a constant laugh
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Jul 15, 2019 19:29
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peter gabriel posted:I still remember building a batch of 5 cyrix PCs and finding out that setting the jumpers for the FSB and clock speed was not how they were meant to be done. None of them booted. I remember misjumpering a loving expensive six-channel workstation-level ATA RAID system once, can't even remember the manufacture. Took half a day to get it working, and three weeks later, a firmware update killed the whole thing. Support (rightly so) simply answered with "lol, RAID is no backup, fool, just restore from backup". Good days, good days  (of course I didn't have a backup, because I planned to get that up and running nexte: Promise 
tuo fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jul 15, 2019 |
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Jul 15, 2019 19:30
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lol that no mans sky is adding another free giant expansion, that changes them from opengl to vulkan and gives full VR support (including consoles) just lol
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Jul 15, 2019 19:36
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Lust is on her mind.
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Jul 15, 2019 19:36
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| # ? May 22, 2024 12:42 |
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Sarsapariller posted:I think that's a lot of what distinguishes Citizens from your average human being at this point. The few Citizens that actually play the game as opposed to just posting about it have made a routine out of jumping through all the gameplay hurdles required to do stuff that should be simple. But they lack the self-reflection to notice how much stuff they're doing to work around all the jank. Really, the MO for people who aren't streaming seems to be 1) Don't play the game 2) Say you're playing the game
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Jul 15, 2019 19:39
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