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ActusRhesus posted:Wait. You went to a sentencing hearing not knowing what you were getting? How does that work? There was a cap on the potential length of the sentence but they left the actual amount of time within that cap up to the judge.
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Jul 15, 2019 17:57
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Kawasaki Nun posted:There was a cap on the potential length of the sentence but they left the actual amount of time within that cap up to the judge. Is it a agreed upon plea, but the DA agrees to a cap on punishment as well? Is sentencing a fully adversarial aggravation/extenuation/mitigation hearing with witnesses, or more a presentence investigation by Dept of Corrections or court services or whoever plus argument by counsel? Does CO have sentencing guidelines?
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Jul 15, 2019 18:12
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In my jurisdiction, outside of specific crimes, the statute sets only the maximum, it's up the judge to sentence. There is a mechanism to tie a judge to a plea offer, but that's best saved for specific cases.
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Jul 15, 2019 19:29
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In FL judges will typically follow a plea agreement but some do throw it out and/or require people admit fault on the record. I’ve had state attorneys agree with me that a judge was wrong in putting extra restrictions on a plea deal and they did it anyways. Open pleas are a different beast altogether that can range from no punishment all the way to the max depending on the whims of the judge. I’ve had a client open plea because he was facing more serious charges in a different court so the state attorney would not give a plea offer. He got the mandatory minimum for the charge.
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Jul 15, 2019 19:38
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mastershakeman posted:doc review update: the womens bathroom now has someone who is unable to aim their poo poo properly and hit the floor. unclear as to whether this is the same person who defecated on the floor in the mens room a few weeks back "Next time, on Serial..."
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Jul 15, 2019 19:47
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We had a prosecutor here a long time ago who got an attorney who usually does immigration work to agree to an open plea on a DUI. 2 to 90 days, 2 was the mandatory minimum that was required, and was the usual punishment for any first-time offender DUI. Well, the defendant had been arrested before for it and not charged, so the prosecutor made the argument to the court that it was like a second offense. Opposing counsel made a simplistic argument, and the judge, who was a bit simple and had a terrible temper (wrote an op-ed in the paper about a lawfirm that played him, got himself recused off handling any of their cases ever again), gave the guy 90 days in jail. Opposing counsel gets off the case and hands it to an actual crim defense attorney, the prosecutor moves to a different job and I get the case. Actual crim def attorney points out nine different ways the judge hosed up the plea acceptance, two of which were automatic overturns at the appellate level, so I agree to a 2-day sentence and close out the thing. Not a lot of open plea bargaining in criminal cases after that one went down for a few years.
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Jul 16, 2019 01:41
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Open pleas depend on A) judges being reasonable and predictable to private attorneys and B) private attorney clients not having managed expectations (not necessarily the attorney’s fault).
yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jul 16, 2019 |
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Jul 16, 2019 03:38
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terrorist ambulance posted:RIP, 7 days for saying d&d is not good, lol lol yeah and D&D says it’s the lawgoons who are the enforcers of arbitrary and petty bullshit, he said before his pending prob. yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Jul 16, 2019 |
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Jul 16, 2019 03:47
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Pook Good Mook posted:In my jurisdiction, outside of specific crimes, the statute sets only the maximum, it's up the judge to sentence. There is a mechanism to tie a judge to a plea offer, but that's best saved for specific cases. MI: Statute sets maximum. Legislative guidelines, now advisory (following Apprendi and progeny). Guidelines set a recommended minimum range for the low number of the sentence. Judge fixes the minimum term. Sentences outside the guideline minimum range are reviewed on appeal for reasonableness and proportionality. Minimum term cannot exceed two-thirds of the statutory maximum term. Also we have two primary vehicles for plea deals: Killebrew (between prosecutor and defendant). Can be a non-binding sentence recommendation (lol) or a sentence agreement. If the judge does not go along with the agreement, the judge must say what they would do in the absence of the agreement and give the defendant the opportunity to affirm or withdraw the plea. Cobbs (judge and defendant; weirdly enough can be done over prosecutor objection): The judges states what the sentence will be based on facts known at the time of the Cobbs agreement. If the judge cannot follow the agreement at the time of sentencing, defendant still has a right to withdraw the plea, but the judge CANNOT state what they would do in the absence of the agreement. Cobbs is actually applied much more liberally than the text of the case suggests. The case envisions a hearing on the record at which the judge says "If you plead as charged, you will receive X amount of time." What happens in actuality is the parties come in to chambers with their own deal worked out and ask the judge what would happen if that plea enters. I'm not a fan of the court participating in negotiations in the first place, so I find Cobbs-as-written suspect, let alone as applied. Alaemon fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Jul 16, 2019 |
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Jul 16, 2019 03:59
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So what are your states’ “your arguments are trash” lines? In Mass it’s quoting Commonwealth v. Domanski, 332 Mass. 66, 78 (1954).quote:Other points, relied on by the defendants but not discussed in this opinion, have not been overlooked. We find nothing in them that requires discussion. Unpublished opinions from the Appeals Court regularly dump off frivolous arguments using this.
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Jul 16, 2019 11:45
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First grad school exam in the books. Much easier and faster than any law school exam.
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Jul 16, 2019 15:27
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This is technically a legal questions issue, but I trust this page more. The fiance and I are starting to look at houses. Do you recommend people speak with an attorney at some point in the purchase process, or will I be able to figure out what things are saying with my law degree? This feels like an obvious thing, but know I literally no one in real estate and don't know where to start or what I'm doing.
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Jul 16, 2019 17:50
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Pook Good Mook posted:This is technically a legal questions issue, but I trust this page more. The fiance and I are starting to look at houses. Do you recommend people speak with an attorney at some point in the purchase process, or will I be able to figure out what things are saying with my law degree? We didn't, but I honestly have no idea if that was the right call or not. But I've seen other people get hosed when, like, the hoa didn't have the right fire insurance applicable to common areas and other specific things that I would never catch. Find a home inspector you trust. Remember you are the only one bringing money into the equation so don't buy into too many "the seller is paying for it" arguments. There's a house buying megathread right next door. I read that thread almost from start to finish. Very helpful if for no other reason familiarizing yourself with the lingo. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3131399
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Jul 16, 2019 17:56
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Pook Good Mook posted:This is technically a legal questions issue, but I trust this page more. The fiance and I are starting to look at houses. Do you recommend people speak with an attorney at some point in the purchase process, or will I be able to figure out what things are saying with my law degree? The problems I had with my first home purchase weren't really lawyer questions, they were experience buying a house questions. I did consult a lawyer AFTER everything was all set to go and the seller threatened not to sign the closing documents. (In my case, the seller was on the verge of bankruptcy and threatening to file, which would have hosed us. I had to bribe him with a little extra cash because the alternative was walking away and eating our costs, or filing a lawsuit for performance and having it stayed for however long. Needless to say, these are rare problems.) Just think of how many people buy homes and don't consult a lawyer.
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Jul 16, 2019 18:02
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I'm sorta leaning towards not hiring a lawyer except possibly to go over the final contract if I don't understand something. I'll start reading that megathread, thanks.
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Jul 16, 2019 18:13
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Pook Good Mook posted:This is technically a legal questions issue, but I trust this page more. The fiance and I are starting to look at houses. Do you recommend people speak with an attorney at some point in the purchase process, or will I be able to figure out what things are saying with my law degree? I would get a real estate attorney. Real estate is complex poo poo and you want someone who is going to look over the deed, etc, as well as any contract issues - making sure you get any necessary representations/warranties, making sure there's no "as-is" nonsense in the contract when the previous owner did lots of illegal fixes themselves, etc. I paid a few thousand for one. That said, since I was buying a coop, it had an added layer of complexity like "so what precisely are my rights and what precisely am i buying". Also you don't want to be that guy in the legal questions thread who has no idea if he has a HOA or not. I will say, it's a volume business and I'm sure they hated us for our expectation that all attorneys were going to respond like biglaw attorneys.
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Jul 16, 2019 18:18
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real estate transaction regs and practices vary strongly jurisdiction to jurisdiction; whether or not, for instance, you need to feel existential terror about HOAs, what the title search is going to cost, whether finding a reliable non-corrupt housing inspector is "open the phone book" versus "how much money do you have".
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Jul 16, 2019 18:23
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Pook Good Mook posted:This is technically a legal questions issue, but I trust this page more. The fiance and I are starting to look at houses. Do you recommend people speak with an attorney at some point in the purchase process, or will I be able to figure out what things are saying with my law degree?
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Jul 16, 2019 19:57
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4th circuit : "homeless alcoholics .. challenge a Virginia statute that makes it a criminal offense for habitual drunkards to possess, consume, or purchase alcohol" . One would think the bar association would have challenged that first!
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Jul 16, 2019 20:27
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I swear to God if I ever become a mediator, I'm renting out the roof of a skyscraper and making a table out of the hottest, blackest stone I could get. And when you get a deal, you feel like you earned it. So sick of dinky little conference rooms for hours.
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Jul 16, 2019 21:52
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Teddybear posted:So what are your states’ “your arguments are trash” lines? I The two quotes that will probably be engraved on my tombstone: Walters v Nadell, 481 Mich 377 (2008): "Trial courts are not the research assistants of the litigants; the parties have a duty to fully present their legal arguments to the court for its resolution of their dispute." Mitcham v Detroit, 355 Mich 182 (1959): "It is not enough for an appellant in his brief simply to announce a position or assert an error and then leave it up to this Court to discover and rationalize the basis for his claims, or unravel and elaborate for him his arguments, and then search for authority either to sustain or reject his position." (Although I usually recommend a paraphrase of the quote, due to working in a trial court.)
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Jul 16, 2019 22:51
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Ani posted:Think it's very jurisdiction-dependent. In New York City everyone (even lawyers) gets a real estate lawyer. Massachusetts requires every buyer and every seller to hire a real estate lawyer. I think. Alaemon posted:The two quotes that will probably be engraved on my tombstone: Ooh, those are good.
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Jul 16, 2019 22:58
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Teddybear posted:
Those cases should be overturned and the USA should move from adversarial to inquisitorial system
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Jul 17, 2019 00:15
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mastershakeman posted:Those cases should be overturned and the USA should move from adversarial to inquisitorial system Even with adversarial, I was just thinking over here judges actually do frequently do the work of digging out arguments for parties. Although admittedly more often for self reps than when lawyers are involved I think.
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Jul 17, 2019 00:28
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Mr. Nice! posted:First grad school exam in the books. Much easier and faster than any law school exam. Sir this is the lawyer and law school thread
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Jul 17, 2019 00:30
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mastershakeman posted:Those cases should be overturned and the USA should move from adversarial to inquisitorial system Yeah then we could really start locking up the undesirables
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Jul 17, 2019 00:30
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Organza Quiz posted:Even with adversarial, I was just thinking over here judges actually do frequently do the work of digging out arguments for parties. Although admittedly more often for self reps than when lawyers are involved I think. Yeah, courts play nice with pro se appellants sometimes. Today the Mass Appeals Court struck part of a judgment that a lady appealed even though she didn’t file a proper record or make coherent arguments. Quoting the court: quote:The transcription service, which was not approved by the trial court, was "Rev.com." Rather than certifying the accuracy of the transcript, the individual transcriptionist asked to be rated on a five-star scale: "How did Shoshana do? If you rate this transcript 3 or below, Shoshana S will not work on your future orders." Full opinion at https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2019/07/16/18P1307.pdf
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Jul 17, 2019 00:39
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Vox Nihili posted:Sir this is the lawyer and law school thread I have to step out of class tomorrow morning for a court ordered phone call with OC to negotiate a trial date or any other pretrial stipulations.
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Jul 17, 2019 01:15
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evilweasel posted:why are you a lawyer if petty passive aggressive fights sounds unpleasant to you, that's the fun part Look, sometimes people come out of college with english literature degrees and then realize things cost money anyway, hello thread Pook Good Mook posted:This is technically a legal questions issue, but I trust this page more. The fiance and I are starting to look at houses. Do you recommend people speak with an attorney at some point in the purchase process, or will I be able to figure out what things are saying with my law degree? Depending on your state this will be either "required" or "a very good idea." You'll be able to figure out what everything's saying IF you remember your real estate and transactions classes (pop quiz: do you remember what a "recourse" vs. a "non-recourse" loan is?) BUT you also want some actual legal services to be done like a title search etc. at some point in the process so you'll need a lawyer for those things, and you want someone *else's* malpractice insurance to be on the hook if there's a fuckup. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Jul 17, 2019 |
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Jul 17, 2019 14:47
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Look, sometimes people come out of college with english literature degrees and then realize things cost money Welcome. What's your avatar and text from? I've always been curious. Also, do you like cabins?
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Jul 17, 2019 15:23
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be warned, no one who goes to Fish's cabin ever returns
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Jul 17, 2019 15:31
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Nice piece of fish posted:What's your avatar and text from? I've always been curious. It's a bit of a meta-joke about the forums, actually.  In Eric Powell's The Goon comic, Dr. Alloy is a well-intentioned mad scientist who, well, sometimes his ideas don't quite work out. In that specific comic, he's having a bit of a (literal) breakdown. Nice piece of fish posted:Also, do you like cabins? That seems like a loaded question. I like cabinetry Soothing Vapors posted:be warned, no one who goes to Fish's cabin ever returns If it gets me out of Trump's America, I mean, ok
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Jul 17, 2019 15:44
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Soothing Vapors posted:be warned, no one who goes to Fish's cabin ever returns Much like its namesake
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Jul 17, 2019 15:47
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Pook Good Mook posted:Much like its namesake Well one person came back~
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Jul 17, 2019 16:30
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I guess we do that too. Right to argue. But usually we pre-try the poo poo out of everything so hard that we all know exactly where the judge is going with it.
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Jul 17, 2019 16:39
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Waiting on a court ordered phone call from OC that was supposed to happen 2 hours ago. Please just loving settle so I can move on with my life.
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Jul 17, 2019 17:11
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Have hearing today. Issue is whether an in patient high risk sex offender program as part of probation is “confinement”. Center is co-located on grounds of a state prison campus but is privately leased, manned and secured by rehab company and has separate entrance/exit. Defendant is claiming it is an arm of DOC. Talking to counsel Counsel: I subpoenaed his probation officer. Do you think they can bring my client with them? Me: I mean... I guess? They take him to his uninalysis crap and other appointments, right? Counsel: good. I can’t get him habeased in because he’s not in DOC custody. *blinks*
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Jul 17, 2019 17:38
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Look, sometimes people come out of college with english literature degrees and then realize things cost money I am in fact drafting a multistate mortgage right now and none of this poo poo makes any sense even to an attorney. Do lawyers even do title diligence anymore? I’ve only met one attorney that issues title opinions and he was like 400 years old. e: THUS DONE AND PASSED
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Jul 17, 2019 18:39
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disjoe posted:I am in fact drafting a multistate mortgage right now and none of this poo poo makes any sense even to an attorney. At least in the DC area, title search companies have on staff attorneys who do the title diligence poo poo. Combine that with the use of standard form contracts for sales and there’s (usually) no need for a separate real estate attorney in a transaction, barring complex situations.
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Jul 17, 2019 18:42
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Do US states have land registers? We’ve been all registry in the UK since before I qualified in the dim and distant early 2000s.
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Jul 17, 2019 18:52
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