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Dumb Lowtax posted:So "yes" then to the second possibility I offered in what you quoted, plus a side of being unnecessarily dickish
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Jul 18, 2019 02:23
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Oh, for the love of God, can we have the emacs vs. vi argument instead? Possibly cshell vs. bash?
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Jul 18, 2019 03:06
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Oh, for the love of God, can we have the emacs vs. vi argument instead? Possibly cshell vs. bash? "write one yourself in perl" and ksh respectively
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Jul 18, 2019 03:12
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Kazinsal posted:"write one yourself in perl" and ksh respectively I was deliberately going for ancient.
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Jul 18, 2019 03:47
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if you don't write your code by angrily staring at an eprom you're not a real programmer
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Jul 18, 2019 04:29
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Bonfire Lit posted:if you don't write your code by angrily staring at an eprom you're not a real programmer I knew someone who knew someone who could whistle "A" into a 300 baud modem. If it isn't true, it's still a good legend.
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Jul 18, 2019 04:32
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10x engineers flip the electrons with their minds. You can find them by looking to see if they have a keyboard plugged in.
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Jul 18, 2019 04:32
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I’m gonna analyze all these posts on my 1 server Hadoop cluster
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Jul 18, 2019 04:36
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I'm very comfortable using breakpoints and watches when debugging in Visual Studio but occasionally it will still be easiest to just cout or otherwise log what's going on in an otherwise unmonitored build, especially if a lot of optimization is happening which makes the interesting variables nonsensical or nonexistent.
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Jul 18, 2019 04:59
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Ola posted:Tweed logic.
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Jul 18, 2019 06:31
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Oh, for the love of God, can we have the emacs vs. vi argument instead? Possibly cshell vs. bash? If you want to build a project written by hardware engineers you have to use cshell because the build process is "source env.csh, set three other environment variables manually, run make with some extra commandline parameters"
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Jul 18, 2019 06:55
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I just wait for sun spots to do the work for me.
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Jul 18, 2019 07:28
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i pulled up the article on functional programming in my mid-90s CD-ROM version of Encyclopedia Britannica and it says that functional programming is some stupid poo poo done by idiot nerds who like to huff each others' farts, now can we just put this factually accurate statement in the OP so that we never have to have this conversation again
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Jul 18, 2019 09:49
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Qwertycoatl posted:If you want to build a project written by hardware engineers you have to use cshell because the build process is "source env.csh, set three other environment variables manually, run make with some extra commandline parameters" And then make runs some godawful test script written in tcl/tk
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Jul 18, 2019 10:18
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real programmers are the ones who have roughly the background and experience i do and think about problems in the same way i do
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Jul 18, 2019 10:24
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my "fav" bug was a race condition that stopped happening when you add a printf
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Jul 18, 2019 11:10
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My "fav" was a code mis-execution cpu bug that went away when run in the debugger
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Jul 18, 2019 11:26
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Jewel posted:my "fav" bug was a race condition that stopped happening when you add a printf Sounds like the solution was straightforward.
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Jul 18, 2019 12:02
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JawnV6 posted:i thought devs could operate without training wheels In *this* thread???
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Jul 18, 2019 12:11
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Jewel posted:my "fav" bug was a race condition that stopped happening when you add a printf i liked the one where two things talking over a very chatty spi bus would go out of sync where the only thing that pointed you in the right direction was a capture of an hour or two's worth of traffic with a logic analyzer. in retrospect i really should have written a wireshark plugin but it would still be a multi gb pcap lol
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Jul 18, 2019 12:47
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Real programmers are cool, I hope I can be one some day. Meanwhile here I am, writing barely functioning code, trying not to trip over my own bugs every day.
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Jul 18, 2019 13:43
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Athas posted:I am agitating for the opposite at my department! We teach light functional and object-oriented programming to first year bachelors students (and the latter is really mostly procedural programming and abstract data types), and I think we should move even more of the heavyweight OO to the masters program. It really does not make sense for the relatively small programs they write early in their education (and they don't have the experience to appreciate a large system in the abstract), while the FP techniques still work well at small scale. TAing a freshman CS class in Java made me feel like there was definitely way too much stuff going on there for people who are just starting out. Can we just go back to Pascal or something?
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Jul 18, 2019 14:03
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OddObserver posted:TAing a freshman CS class in Java made me feel like there was definitely way too much stuff going on there for people who are just starting out. Can we just go back to Pascal or something? I TA:d an intro class in C of all languages and that was a nightmare. Like trying to explain basic syntactic stuff to people who have never written a line of code in their lives can be hard enough but then their programs start segfaulting all over the place.
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Jul 18, 2019 14:08
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netcat posted:I TA:d an intro class in C of all languages and that was a nightmare. Like trying to explain basic syntactic stuff to people who have never written a line of code in their lives can be annoying enough but then their programs start segfaulting all over the place. It's an important experience for anyone who's going to ever touch computers for a living, seeing how loving fragile it all is.
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Jul 18, 2019 14:11
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Jewel posted:my "fav" bug was a race condition that stopped happening when you add a printf My most recent fun one was a bug in the hardware specification of the RAM being accessed by the Cortex-M0 on the FPGA for which I was writing firmware, where the byte lane enable signals on the data bus weren't routed properly so all loads and stores were 32 bits even if the machine code was intending to do 16 or 8. Actually worked almost fine because most of the variables in the firmware were in fact 32 bits, but then I'd put a char variable on the stack or something and variables around it would mysteriously get corrupted.
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Jul 18, 2019 14:12
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Jewel posted:my "fav" bug was a race condition that stopped happening when you add a printf Same here, but when adding a comment
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Jul 18, 2019 14:19
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Phobeste posted:i liked the one where two things talking over a very chatty spi bus would go out of sync where the only thing that pointed you in the right direction was a capture of an hour or two's worth of traffic with a logic analyzer. in retrospect i really should have written a wireshark plugin but it would still be a multi gb pcap lol feedmegin posted:My most recent fun one was a bug in the hardware specification of the RAM being accessed by the Cortex-M0 on the FPGA for which I was writing firmware, where the byte lane enable signals on the data bus weren't routed properly so all loads and stores were 32 bits even if the machine code was intending to do 16 or 8. Actually worked almost fine because most of the variables in the firmware were in fact 32 bits, but then I'd put a char variable on the stack or something and variables around it would mysteriously get corrupted.
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Jul 18, 2019 14:26
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Real programmers are cool, I hope I can be one some day. "Real programming" is pretty much that too, but you get cooler war stories sometimes
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Jul 18, 2019 14:32
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OddObserver posted:TAing a freshman CS class in Java made me feel like there was definitely way too much stuff going on there for people who are just starting out. Can we just go back to Pascal or something? I was an adjunct prof for a second-year Java course and there was just tons of stuff I'd have to tell students to ignore and say "right now, it's magic, I'll explain it in a few weeks". It was effectively the CS concentrations wash-out course, but teaching procedural programming via Java in the first year really didn't set them up for success in the second year. I think the program had planned to start with Python at some point in the future but the actual profs decided that the load of having students learn two syntaxes in one year wasn't going to work. This was also a Fall semester course, so it'd take like a month for everyone to remember all the stuff they supposedly learned last year. We'd be ~5 weeks in before I could start the welcome-to-OOP lectures and that's when the bimodal grade distribution REALLY kicked in. It's surprisingly tough to get a sophomore to "get" OOP and you run out of analogies pretty quick.
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Jul 18, 2019 14:34
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Current favourite bug: Low power microcontroller's sleep state from which it is able to wake 999,999 out of 1,000,000 times. This is one too few times. Once it stops waking up it stops responding to any stimulus, internal or external. It's impossible to debug because you can't enter sleep states when a debugger is connected and primarily controlled by a hardware FSM. Added bonus: even the system watchdog ceases to function. Hardware guys' opinion: You're holding it wrong Workaround: Don't go to sleep, increasing power consumption by a factor of 500
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Jul 18, 2019 14:35
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feedmegin posted:My most recent fun one was a bug in the hardware specification of the RAM being accessed by the Cortex-M0 on the FPGA for which I was writing firmware, where the byte lane enable signals on the data bus weren't routed properly so all loads and stores were 32 bits even if the machine code was intending to do 16 or 8. Actually worked almost fine because most of the variables in the firmware were in fact 32 bits, but then I'd put a char variable on the stack or something and variables around it would mysteriously get corrupted. This exact problem but it was our EDA librarians who created the RAM component symbol with byte lane enable signals as swappable when in reality they weren't. Most projects didn't have an issue because the person doing the PCB routing happened to pick the right order because it happened to be easier for the layout. Guess whose project didn't guess correctly  Spatial posted:Current favourite bug: Low power microcontroller's sleep state from which it is able to wake 999,999 out of 1,000,000 times. Sounds like it's time for a fun chat with the vendor!
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Jul 18, 2019 15:00
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Spatial posted:Added bonus: even the system watchdog ceases to function. The real horror right there. ...I wanted to link to an article about the LEM software here, where the RTOS hypervisor killing things and restarting was critical for moon landing, but I can't find the article due to all the 50th anniversary press stuff crowding it out 
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Jul 18, 2019 15:05
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Qwertycoatl posted:My "fav" was a code mis-execution cpu bug that went away when run in the debugger There's nothing quite like sidestepping a complicated and horrible crash at application shutdown with a sleep(500).
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Jul 18, 2019 15:06
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ultrafilter posted:There's nothing quite like sidestepping a complicated and horrible crash at application shutdown with a sleep(500). Thank you for playing Wing Commander!
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Jul 18, 2019 15:12
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One time I had to break out the oscilloscope to debug something
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Jul 18, 2019 15:32
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I don’t believe you, nobody’s ever had to break out the scope precisely once. It’s either never or loving constantly
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Jul 18, 2019 16:16
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Spatial posted:Current favourite bug: Low power microcontroller's sleep state from which it is able to wake 999,999 out of 1,000,000 times. Jewel posted:my "fav" bug was a race condition that stopped happening when you add a printf like yeah when we're looking at individual instructions causing HW races maybe jamming a thousand cycles of string parsing in there might jiggle things around and hide the issue?? Phobeste posted:I don’t believe you, nobody’s ever had to break out the scope precisely once. It’s either never or loving constantly
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Jul 18, 2019 18:24
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This reinforces my belief that "just change stuff around a bit, see if it goes away" is a sound troubleshooting technique.
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Jul 18, 2019 18:33
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Ola posted:This reinforces my belief that "just change stuff around a bit, see if it goes away" is a sound troubleshooting technique. It does make the problem go away, but it'll come back again two days before the release date.
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Jul 18, 2019 18:43
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| # ? May 21, 2024 00:51 |
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Then you change it back.
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Jul 18, 2019 18:46
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