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the web browser you're posting with is almost certainly using gl
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Jul 19, 2019 06:41
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Suspicious Dish posted:the web browser you're posting with is almost certainly using gl firefox doesn't use opengl by default because it is not guaranteed to be faster on intel graphics i mean, it could use gl. but that will never be a universal configuration for lots of obvious reasons
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Jul 19, 2019 06:47
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Wayland is the default on the most popular desktop Linuxes (Ubuntu, Fedora), and X certainly isn't the default on the most popular desktop Unix (macOS). I used Wayland-GNOME for years without noticing any weirdness, and now I am even using a psycho elitist tiling window manager on Wayland, just like I used to do on X. There seems to be an Xwayland running, but I don't know for what. Firefox? I don't care. It works fine. I don't have particularly strong opinions on display servers, but it does seem like desktop Linux is migrating to Wayland for good this time, and I'm fine with that. It has been a decade since I last used remote X, and even then it didn't work very well. Small loss. I have maybe a dozen friends using Linux full time on their desktops, and I am pretty sure none of them have ever used remote X, except maybe as a novelty. Most of them probably don't even know it exists. Athas fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 07:29
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:firefox doesn't use opengl by default because it is not guaranteed to be faster on intel graphics it's using opengl by default on intel. has been for about... 6 years now? not for all graphics rendering, but at least for compositing
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Jul 19, 2019 07:33
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i have no idea what percentage of linux desktop users it is, but it's a large fraction of the users who have money Prove it. Because literally everyone else in this thread full of professional Linux developers is telling you they don't and never have needed your weird edge use case. You have a really weird habit of assuming your personal work environment is 100% reflective of the entire industry in all respects, and that just ain't so.
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Jul 19, 2019 09:56
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I too have never used network X in the over a decade of being a professional Linux toucher. I just use SSH like everybody else.
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Jul 19, 2019 10:34
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ratbert90 posted:I too have never used network X in the over a decade of being a professional Linux toucher. I just use SSH like everybody else. Even the few times I did use remote X, it was tunnelled over SSH. Is there any other sane way to do it? At university long ago there were some thin SunRay X terminals, and I guess maybe they used some other protocol. That was the last time I used remote X.
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Jul 19, 2019 11:56
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Athas posted:Even the few times I did use remote X, it was tunnelled over SSH. Is there any other sane way to do it? At university long ago there were some thin SunRay X terminals, and I guess maybe they used some other protocol. That was the last time I used remote X. I think he means 'ssh and then the command line instead of X'. The protocol's the same whether it's going over an ssh tunnel or just a direct TCP connection; either way you're not going to get shared memory, usable OpenGL etc.
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Jul 19, 2019 12:15
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Athas posted:Even the few times I did use remote X, it was tunnelled over SSH. Is there any other sane way to do it? At university long ago there were some thin SunRay X terminals, and I guess maybe they used some other protocol. That was the last time I used remote X. TBH I haven’t used X over SSH in over a decade as well. I just use sshfs if I really need to and then modify the files as if they were local.
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Jul 19, 2019 12:34
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X gonna give it to ya
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Jul 19, 2019 12:45
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Vomik posted:X gonna give it to ya Linux 2019: X net gonna give it to ya.
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Jul 19, 2019 12:46
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I use remote X11 apps over SSH and like it Works pretty dece over local networks, and actually a surprisingly good solution for using a Linux VM on macos/windows. gently caress the haters remote X11 owns and Wayland can smd welp, I'm internet shitposter Poopernickel and this was my post 
Poopernickel fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 13:47
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dont sign your posts 
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Jul 19, 2019 14:08
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Poopernickel posted:gently caress the haters remote X11 owns and Wayland can smd magnification is not currently working under wayland so you're sol
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Jul 19, 2019 14:33
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The_Franz posted:magnification is not currently working under wayland so you're sol *trap airhorns*
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Jul 19, 2019 16:17
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I also pretty regularly use x11 forwarding and in fact it's the only way to do certain things in my current position
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Jul 19, 2019 21:14
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big black turnout posted:it's the only way to do certain things in my current position 
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Jul 19, 2019 22:04
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big black turnout posted:I also pretty regularly use x11 forwarding and in fact it's the only way to do certain things in my current position Does that break for you with XWayland? 
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Jul 19, 2019 22:36
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hell if i know. work isn't where i fiddle with linux. im just saying its a use case for me
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Jul 19, 2019 23:25
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I hosed around with i3 for an hour then just went ahead and installed ubuntu LTS with gnome and everything set to default. it's fine. I'll think about installing i3 and arch again if i want to impress some nerds
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Jul 19, 2019 23:35
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i tried i3 but i actually like awesome wm better
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Jul 20, 2019 00:59
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feedmegin posted:Prove it. Because literally everyone else in this thread full of professional Linux developers is telling you they don't and never have needed your weird edge use case. You have a really weird habit of assuming your personal work environment is 100% reflective of the entire industry in all respects, and that just ain't so. i have no good way of proving it except that citrix and opentext still somehow exist also it's not just my current job out of my last five jobs, four of them were hellish corporate environments where remote access details were hugely important
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Jul 20, 2019 03:50
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feedmegin posted:Does that break for you with XWayland? nothing should ever be broken with xwayland, except, expecting users to tolerate xwayland dooms wayland to irrelevance. see also: every loving broken ruin of an X11 replacement in the last thirty years ---------------------------------- i think some people itt are getting me wrong. i am not the x11 defender, here to tell you x11 is good and cool i am the x11 tolerator. i live with x11. i need x11 to get by, day to day. if wayland manages to deliver a feature complete replacement for the world i live in with x11, i will be happy to say goodbye to x11 i just don't expect that outcome, because this kind of hype and furor has happened many times in the past, and nothing ever actually replaced x11 the individual-remote-applications use case is really loving hard, which is why people shy away from it and waypipe only half works and x11 still sticks around to bother us as an ancient horror
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Jul 20, 2019 03:53
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X11: the methadone of window systems you do X11, you get a window system not a good window system, not too terrible a window system, just a window system and it’ll run on anything since it was prototyped on a fuckin MicroVAX
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Jul 20, 2019 06:04
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nBSD you should get some X terminals like a DEC VXT2000 or an NCD MCX (if you see an NCR TOWERVIEW it’s mine, tell me about it and if it’s under like US$100 grab it and I’ll reimburse you)
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Jul 20, 2019 06:07
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eschaton posted:nBSD you should get some X terminals i used to have a bunch of dedicated X terminals, as a collection they were an initial locus of my computer collecting habit because my local public library system in the midwest relied on a mystery combination of NCD, Sun, and Wyse to provide Netscape-for-UNIX to patrons but i moved to new york some years ago and the X terms were a necessary casualty 
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Jul 20, 2019 07:02
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eschaton posted:X11: the methadone of window systems everyone thinks they casually can quit methadone, at the beginning
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Jul 20, 2019 07:03
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My brain keeps reimagining her torso as doing Dirac's belt trick: https://twitter.com/thattai/status/1017453909185630208?lang=en
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Jul 20, 2019 07:04
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:out of my last five jobs, four of them were hellish corporate environments where remote access details were hugely important Nobody is claiming that remote access is not important, but nowadays sane people use text mode SSH or intranet HTTP UIs for that. Do you also work at places where people write new X applications to control operations?
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Jul 20, 2019 07:59
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Athas posted:Nobody is claiming that remote access is not important, but nowadays sane people use text mode SSH or intranet HTTP UIs for that. right the “details” are things like “does my ide run on my desktop” and “can my ide reach development hosts” this poo poo seems dumb as gently caress and obvious until, you know, it’s not strictly speaking i can ssh into hosts but I can’t open new ssh channels or run commands, which makes ash into lovely telnet remote applications are A Thing as much as we all would prefer they were not. it is funny and terrible to see people pretend it’s just not an issue 
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Jul 20, 2019 09:05
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in the time I have been posting in yospos i have worked at nine? ten? employers seven of them forced me to use remote x11 for various tasks, whether tunneled through ssh or not at a minimum, my anecdotal experience dictates that remote apps are important to hundreds of thousands of corporate drones it’s a thing. I think we would all be happier if it weren’t, but corporate America doesn’t cater to our happiness. it would be really good if the waypipe work gets finished
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Jul 20, 2019 09:12
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what are the non-linux x systems doing? i cant see theo de raadt going all in on the wayland train to appease the 200 openbsd desktop users
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Jul 20, 2019 13:39
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:in the time I have been posting in yospos i have worked at nine? ten? employers that sucks. ive been at F500 media and retail corporations and ssh was ubiquitous at both. friends in fintech and places like cargill report the same.
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Jul 20, 2019 13:41
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Helicity posted:what are the non-linux x systems doing? gathering dust
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Jul 20, 2019 13:46
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it is obvious that x11 wont be going away any time soon, but it is getting to be equally obvious that xwayland is going to be the standard implementation on linux. will annoy a lot of people for a lot of really irrelevant reasons (omg the purity of my very important linux desktop is compromised by this seemingly even *more* complex setup), but it makes pretty decent sense to have wayland take over the driver/drawing concerns, and having stuff dragged off xwayland only as needed (e.g. more performance-sensitive bits), or as weirdos invest their free time in what is strictly not very important tasks (most things).
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Jul 20, 2019 14:31
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i have no good way of proving it except that citrix and opentext still somehow exist We are specifically talking about remote X11 here. Don't try and move the goalposts. And if XWayland does everything you need it to do, for your edge case, why on earth do you think that supporting your edge case using legacy software somehow dooms Wayland to never becoming the default for the rest of us?
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Jul 20, 2019 14:51
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they're called "edge cases" because the only people who have them are edgy basket case contrarians arguing for the sake of arguing
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Jul 20, 2019 15:05
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feedmegin posted:We are specifically talking about remote X11 here. Don't try and move the goalposts. And if XWayland does everything you need it to do, for your edge case, why on earth do you think that supporting your edge case using legacy software somehow dooms Wayland to never becoming the default for the rest of us? an instructive tale: NeWS was a pretty cool technology but it had an X11 implementation bolted on for legacy apps result: no one ever ported anything to NeWS NeWS is now dead and gone and X11 is still with us
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Jul 20, 2019 17:13
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:an instructive tale: moral: Unix was poo poo, is poo poo, will always be poo poo. otoh being able to shovel that poo poo without gagging is worth a lot of money
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Jul 20, 2019 17:21
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Nomnom Cookie posted:moral: Unix was poo poo, is poo poo, will always be poo poo. otoh being able to shovel that poo poo without gagging is worth a lot of money
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Jul 20, 2019 17:27
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