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Also very mean of him to not cough up those Duality alphas sitting on his hard drive.
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Jul 19, 2019 04:33
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I played Pirate Doom in the last two days. It was good! Actually it starts somewhat weak. Simple levels, not enough detailing, some of the monster 'skins' are almost the same, few weapons... I was wondering if the level of mods was just lower six years ago, because I heard lots of good things about it. But that's the first three levels. From the fourth onwards, the thing improves with tons of creativity poured into the mod. Sunken ships with ghosts, a hilarious circus with novel trials for the player, swamps, graveyard, a mansion, the lost city in the jungle with new enemies, the voodoo shop full of tricks and fuckery, it's all good. It isn't very long which I think it's also good, it doesn't overstay its welcome beyond what the concept needs. Another thing that ends up as virtue is the patience in doling out all the enemy types and weapons, making you have something new up to the third-to-last level.
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Jul 19, 2019 09:45
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nightmare reaper's art direction looks a lot like pie-in-the-sky engine games of the mid 90's, which I kind of appreciate "retro" includes poo poo art, i guess!
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Jul 19, 2019 15:05
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Volte posted:Devs of good retro-inspired games like Dusk and Amid Evil set era-appropriate boundaries for themselves and then try to push those boundaries to build the best (and best-looking) game they can, because that's what game devs did back then too. Devs of bad retro-inspired games run around in a boundless expanse of possibility yelling "It looks like poo poo! That means it's retro!" eh dusk is a one man game with ugly programmer art direction taht only ends up looking nice because of the level design which he only got a chance to do properly after the early access was well recieved. im gonna give nightmare reaper a lil bit of a chance
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Jul 19, 2019 15:35
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Farm Frenzy posted:eh dusk is a one man game with ugly programmer art direction taht only ends up looking nice because of the level design which he only got a chance to do properly after the early access was well recieved. im gonna give nightmare reaper a lil bit of a chance
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Jul 19, 2019 15:43
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yeah having orthogonal walls makes that pretty clear.
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Jul 19, 2019 15:47
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Volte posted:Dusk's goal isn't "look as lovely as humanly possible" though, it actually tries to look as good as possible within the restriction of being a one-man show with programmer art. It really seems like Nightmare Reaper is leaning into looking as bad as possible just for the sake of it. Groovelord Neato posted:yeah having orthogonal walls makes that pretty clear. I think I got it. Their artistic inspiration isn't Doom or Quake... it's loving Minecraft. That's why all seems made by blocks. It's why all is pixelated like this (this is supposedly a 9mm pistol)  It's blocky pixel art look for pixel art look's sake. In comparison... 
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Jul 19, 2019 17:21
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The first thing the art style reminds me of is Nitemare 3D. Nostalgia or not I don't know why anyone would do that on purpose.
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Jul 19, 2019 17:24
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Turin Turambar posted:I think I got it. Their artistic inspiration isn't Doom or Quake... it's loving Minecraft. That's why all seems made by blocks. It's why all is pixelated like this (this is supposedly a 9mm pistol)
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Jul 19, 2019 17:25
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Turin Turambar posted:I think I got it. Their artistic inspiration isn't Doom or Quake... it's loving Minecraft. That's why all seems made by blocks. It's why all is pixelated like this (this is supposedly a 9mm pistol) Yeah the sprites are so low res it kinda just reminds me of those paintings in minecraft 
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Jul 19, 2019 18:14
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The improvement in sprite work, particularly the weapons in your hand, between Marathon 1 and 2 is fucken staggering. Honestly that had been my biggest hangup for years in really getting into M1 because it's just so got dang ugly. I know not every 90's sprite artist can be Adrian Carmack but the poo poo they shoveled out for M1 is hideous beyond belief. Marathon 2 though? Oh boy. Oh man it's tastey. I would love to see proper 3D modeled and animated versions of summa these guns. Why is the assault rifle so cool. Bungie put it in Destiny 3 and I'll buy a copy.
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Jul 19, 2019 20:22
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Bear in mind that modern Aleph One M2 uses the weapon sprites from the 2007 XBLA port, which are considerably touched up from the original.
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Jul 19, 2019 20:39
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Speaking of Wolf3d, I don't know a lot about that era of shooters, since my first FPS was Heretic. I've played Wolf3d, SoD, Blake Stone and Super 3d Noah's Ark (The addition of the extra ammo types and projectile weapons makes way more of an impact than you'd think, but gosh it makes the gameplay more fun), but are there any other 'must plays' from the wolfenstein era that I've missed?
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Jul 19, 2019 20:55
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skasion posted:Bear in mind that modern Aleph One M2 uses the weapon sprites from the 2007 XBLA port, which are considerably touched up from the original. Oh yeah I know, I turned that crap off because I think the original sprite works are way better. The XBLA graphics look like babby's first poser models.
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Jul 19, 2019 21:00
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Gloomy Rube posted:Speaking of Wolf3d, I don't know a lot about that era of shooters, since my first FPS was Heretic. I've played Wolf3d, SoD, Blake Stone and Super 3d Noah's Ark (The addition of the extra ammo types and projectile weapons makes way more of an impact than you'd think, but gosh it makes the gameplay more fun), but are there any other 'must plays' from the wolfenstein era that I've missed? Rise of the Triad
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Jul 19, 2019 21:05
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Stuff like Nightmare Reaper really helps me appreciate just how amazing the art design and implementation in Doom was. Also makes me appreciate the devs who make retro-style games that actually pay more attention to how games in the era looked and felt, rather than a vague sense of "games looked worse back then I guess???" Like Prodeus looks like early FPS games solely remembered through Brutal Doom with a bunch of mods slapped overtop*, for all its marketing Strafe had nothing to do with the era other than low-resolution unfiltered textures, and Nightmare Reaper seems to use it as an excuse for lovely low-res art. I thought that Nightmare Reaper looked like a hypothetical "Brutal Wolfenstein" with poor colour choices and terrible sprites, but now that Minecraft has been mentioned I wouldn't be surprised if the dev is remembering the 90s entirely through a game that actually has nothing to do with the 90s *I still can't get over how Metroid Prime-style helmet HUDs have retroactively become part of the 90s via obnoxious mods for Doom BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 21:07
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I can't say I get being impressed by the original M2 AR, it just looked like a grey blob. All the M2 weapons looked a little flat and featureless, like they hadn't finished a detail pass before shipping. Especially the rocket launcher, which is now just a straight cylinder strapped onto some stuff instead of an interesting looking thing that actually displayed the individual rockets loaded into it. M1 and M2 had different art directors (if "art director" is a term that applies to a team that small) and as a result have very different looks. I've always liked the M1 environment textures the best, with the possible exception of the Infinity jjaro set, but a lot of that was probably colored by playing them with the graphics settings turned down even by mid-90s standards and my mind inventing a lot of detail to fill in those ill-defined blobs. Please let us know your opinion of the M2 Pfhor textures asap.
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Jul 19, 2019 21:14
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haveblue posted:Please let us know your opinion of the M2 Pfhor textures asap. 
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Jul 19, 2019 21:41
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On that note, is there an easy way to replace the M2 Pfhor texture set with the M1 version? I’ve heard you can switch M2 for Infinity sets with Shapefusion but that wouldn’t work on M1 would it?
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Jul 19, 2019 21:56
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Icarusliv3s plays the 0.9 version of the almost complete Hell-Forged Doom TC mod. This seems to be a continuation/remake of a famous mod that was never finished, Demon Eclipse. If you have played once with the 'Eriguns' weapon mod, well, this is the author, and that weapon pack came from his efforts of trying to do this TC.
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Jul 19, 2019 22:02
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skasion posted:On that note, is there an easy way to replace the M2 Pfhor texture set with the M1 version? I’ve heard you can switch M2 for Infinity sets with Shapefusion but that wouldn’t work on M1 would it? If nothing else you can just copy/paste into the shapes file.
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Jul 19, 2019 22:46
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BattleMaster posted:Stuff like Nightmare Reaper really helps me appreciate just how amazing the art design and implementation in Doom was. Keep in mind Doom was still made by a team of devs who'd made a number of games by that point. Some of these retro shooters are one man bands on their first game. Obviously the technical challenges are absurdly simpler now, but design whether art or game doesn't get that much easier. Like if you set out to make another Wizardry 7 technically you can get something that looks the same in hours. It's kind of an ugly game with simple visuals. The incredibly complex game/level/scenario design made by multiple people who'd been making games for a decade and had been iterating on their designs for a game already isn't that much easier. Doom has a lot of subtly brilliant elements in its game design that even knowing and studying what they did is not easy to imitate. I'm a lot less charitable to Prodeus or Strafe since those were made by teams and I know at least Strafe had some experienced devs. The Metroid Prime helmet thing is so dumb.
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Jul 19, 2019 23:08
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strafe felt like false advertising with the retro videos and stuff they did.
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Jul 19, 2019 23:11
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Also Doom was made by a team that had access to some equipment that was state-of-the-art back then. They developed on Next workstations, they had a whole setup for video capture, etc. The effect was impressive, you only need to compare the sprites between Doom and Wolf 3D.
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Jul 19, 2019 23:17
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Gloomy Rube posted:Speaking of Wolf3d, I don't know a lot about that era of shooters, since my first FPS was Heretic. I've played Wolf3d, SoD, Blake Stone and Super 3d Noah's Ark (The addition of the extra ammo types and projectile weapons makes way more of an impact than you'd think, but gosh it makes the gameplay more fun), but are there any other 'must plays' from the wolfenstein era that I've missed? Catacomb 3-D and Hovertank 3-D just to see how all this FPS stuff got started, also Ken's Labyrinth for what eventually became the Build engine. None are particularly good but lay the groundwork in a big way. Operation Bodycount if you want to suffer a brain haemorrhage caused entirely by midi fart music and wild texture warping
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Jul 19, 2019 23:37
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ChubGame3D for that weird sense of shareware hunting you'd be doing in the late nineties, and its many bizarre disappointments. http://chubgamsoft.tripod.com/ quote:Q6: What is your philosophy for Chub Gam 3D: Director's Cut. How do you think this compares to other games on the market? What game are you aiming to beat? doctorfrog fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jul 19, 2019 |
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Jul 19, 2019 23:43
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Cat Mattress posted:Also Doom was made by a team that had access to some equipment that was state-of-the-art back then. They developed on Next workstations, they had a whole setup for video capture, etc. The effect was impressive, you only need to compare the sprites between Doom and Wolf 3D. recently for no reason i was reading up on the history leading up to doom and it's kinda nuts how small a team could make a AAA title back then. it's also wild they started working for a company run out of a basement in louisiana. and they'd borrow the work computers on the weekend to make wolfenstein.
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Jul 19, 2019 23:56
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Groovelord Neato posted:recently for no reason i was reading up on the history leading up to doom and it's kinda nuts how small a team could make a AAA title back then. Games like Mortal Kombat had like a couple programmers and a couple artists. Its crazy how much the scale blew up so fast. Roller Coaster Tycoon was all one guy. Nowadays theres' a few indies with small teams; Minecraft is probably the biggest, Hollow Knight, etc. but they can't compete with AAA at all.
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Jul 20, 2019 05:38
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Groovelord Neato posted:recently for no reason i was reading up on the history leading up to doom and it's kinda nuts how small a team could make a AAA title back then. They're not really AAA though, there's indie devs that have way more than they had these days. Not sure when AAA became a thing, is Halo AAA? Quake 2 isn't, half-life isn't, maybe somewhere around the 360 launch AAA became a thing? I'd say it was when modders stopped making mods better than the base game in presentation regularly.
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Jul 20, 2019 08:48
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Flannelette posted:They're not really AAA though, there's indie devs that have way more than they had these days. Not sure when AAA became a thing, is Halo AAA? Quake 2 isn't, half-life isn't, maybe somewhere around the 360 launch AAA became a thing? I'd say it was when modders stopped making mods better than the base game in presentation regularly. Uh, what? Quake 2 was a state of the art game with a big budget for its time. Its definitely AAA. You've invented your own definition. And I'm not sure mods have ever been generally better than the base game. Thar's always been rare.
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Jul 20, 2019 09:05
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Flannelette posted:They're not really AAA though, there's indie devs that have way more than they had these days. Not sure when AAA became a thing, is Halo AAA? Quake 2 isn't, half-life isn't, maybe somewhere around the 360 launch AAA became a thing? I'd say it was when modders stopped making mods better than the base game in presentation regularly. it’s definitely the equivalent of today’s AAA titles.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:36
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Gloomy Rube posted:Speaking of Wolf3d, I don't know a lot about that era of shooters, since my first FPS was Heretic. I've played Wolf3d, SoD, Blake Stone and Super 3d Noah's Ark (The addition of the extra ammo types and projectile weapons makes way more of an impact than you'd think, but gosh it makes the gameplay more fun), but are there any other 'must plays' from the wolfenstein era that I've missed? Raven's SHADOWCASTER
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Jul 20, 2019 12:27
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Flannelette posted:They're not really AAA though, there's indie devs that have way more than they had these days. Not sure when AAA became a thing, is Halo AAA? Quake 2 isn't, half-life isn't, maybe somewhere around the 360 launch AAA became a thing? I'd say it was when modders stopped making mods better than the base game in presentation regularly.
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Jul 20, 2019 16:07
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A FUCKIN CANARY!! posted:The first thing the art style reminds me of is Nitemare 3D. Nostalgia or not I don't know why anyone would do that on purpose. Looked that up and wow, blast from the past. We had a shareware copy of that game that we played for like five minutes and never went back to. I would sort of remember it from time to time, but I'd forgotten what it was called.
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Jul 20, 2019 18:33
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Quake II's budget and sales expectations were in no way on scale with AAA equivalent titles of the time, like the big sports games and console-leading releases.
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Jul 20, 2019 18:36
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Mordja posted:The term "AAA" just referred to a game's budget and profit expectations, it's only become an obnoxious marketing buzzword in the last ten odd years. Its not even a marketing buzzword, games never describe themselves as "AAA" in marketing. Its just not done really. Its assumed by the production value, you don't have to say it. The term always referred to game's budgets and professional level of the company or team making them. Its only ever become popular lately because "game journalism" was tiny back in the 90s and people didn't have as many established terms and regular forums for arguing about video games. That said there's probably all kinds of old usenet groups where the term "AAA" would pop up. The term always made me think of Baseball, where AAA is the highest level of play (outside of the majors) fishmech posted:Quake II's budget and sales expectations were in no way on scale with AAA equivalent titles of the time, like the big sports games and console-leading releases. This seems like insanity to me. It was a multi-million dollar game in 1997. That is absolutely AAA. By this definition there were only like 2 AAA games in '97. That's not how it works. Every game on console was AAA back then, there was no indie path to console. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 18:41
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Zaphod42 posted:
Cry about it if you wish, Quake II was in no way on the same level as other 1997 releases like FF7, Mario Kart 64, Symphony Of The Night, Goldeneye etc. And no you're insane if you think every console game was AAA. The idea that the only options in the 90s of all times was indie vs AAA is nonsense.
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Jul 20, 2019 19:00
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fishmech posted:Cry about it if you wish, Quake II was in no way on the same level as other 1997 releases like FF7, Mario Kart 64, Symphony Of The Night, Goldeneye etc. ...cry about it? Dude. We're talking about videogames. Holy poo poo calm down.
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Jul 20, 2019 19:06
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Zaphod42 posted:...cry about it? Said the guy shrieking about it being insane to understand that Quake II was a midbudget/midimpact game to the overall gaming world in 1997.
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Jul 20, 2019 19:57
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fishmech posted:Said the guy shrieking about it being insane to understand that Quake II was a midbudget/midimpact game to the overall gaming world in 1997. what makes Quake 2 NOT a AAA game? Solaris 2.0 fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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