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Scaramouche posted:Neil can tell a good story or two but that's the problem, he only tells the same stories over and over again. Someone gets sucked into magical world of whimsy, they find their place/powers there, emerge grown as a person. Neverwhere, stardust, American gods, anansi boys, half the pov characters in sandman, etc. Got some bad news about the English literary canon, you might wanna sit down
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Jul 21, 2019 20:41
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Scaramouche posted:Neil can tell a good story or two but that's the problem, he only tells the same stories over and over again. Someone gets sucked into magical world of whimsy, they find their place/powers there, emerge grown as a person. Neverwhere, stardust, American gods, anansi boys, half the pov characters in sandman, etc. Campbell should sue imo
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Jul 21, 2019 20:55
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Scaramouche posted:Neil can tell a good story or two but that's the problem, he only tells the same stories over and over again. Someone gets sucked into magical world of whimsy, they find their place/powers there, emerge grown as a person. Neverwhere, stardust, American gods, anansi boys, half the pov characters in sandman, etc. Not seeing a problem here.
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Jul 21, 2019 20:55
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:I lived with a boyfriend in his parents house in Ohio. They were fairly wealthy and had a giant mansion-like house, and one room that was roped- off, that his crazy mother rarely let anyone allow to walk inside. She called it her princess room, and it was basically a shrine to Princess Diana. White carpet, fancy velvet couch, hundreds of Diana portraits in golden frames, dolls that looked like Diana (so many dolls), Diana memorabilia, magazine covers, books, etc etc. But best of all, a gigantic clear glass grand piano with a gigantic picture of Princess Diana's face on the top of it, with the word "FOREVER". I'll never forget that room, i'll never forget how horrible his mother was, and i'll never forget peeing in the middle of her perfectly white carpet in that creepy room before I moved away forever.
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Jul 21, 2019 22:01
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Pirate Radar posted:Strange aeons we live in.  holy poo poo
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Jul 21, 2019 22:01
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oh right, it's like that lovecraft quote
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Jul 21, 2019 22:16
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Scaramouche posted:Neil can tell a good story or two but that's the problem, he only tells the same stories over and over again. Someone gets sucked into magical world of whimsy, they find their place/powers there, emerge grown as a person. Neverwhere, stardust, American gods, anansi boys, half the pov characters in sandman, etc. male nerd power fantasy :O
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Jul 21, 2019 22:25
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:sorry your gangly writer crush had one good idea in the 80s and has been coasting on it ever since.
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Jul 21, 2019 22:26
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:oh right, it's like that lovecraft quote Lovecraft would probably dislike Gaiman quite a lot. Both as an author, and as a Jewish person. Because Lovecraft was racist! Let's talk about that.
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Jul 21, 2019 22:34
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Paladinus posted:Lovecraft would probably dislike Gaiman quite a lot. Both as an author, and as a Jewish person. Because Lovecraft was racist! Let's talk about that. Let's not.
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Jul 21, 2019 22:35
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Let's not. Sure, let's pretend racism doesn't exist and see where this gets us. 
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Jul 21, 2019 22:40
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FactsAreUseless posted:I hate Gaiman and I was trolling you. It worked. It should have been real obvious it wasn't a serious post, but for some reason you decided I must love Neil Gaiman, a terrible writer. you love him, and you wish he would write you a manic dream girl to lead you through a variety of poorly-hanging-together escapades
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Jul 21, 2019 22:42
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Paladinus posted:Sure, let's pretend racism doesn't exist and see where this gets us. I was thinking let’s not because it’s the same discussion every time he comes up. Did you know he was really racist, here’s his cat’s name, here are some letters from other virulent racists of the time telling him that he’s too racist, he got better near the end of his life but still bad, and so on. If you have a new angle to talk a out it from, though, I’d be fine with that.
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Jul 21, 2019 23:01
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Ariong posted:I was thinking let’s not because it’s the same discussion every time he comes up. Did you know he was really racist, here’s his cat’s name, here are some letters from other virulent racists of the time telling him that he’s too racist, he got better near the end of his life but still bad, and so on. If you have a new angle to talk a out it from, though, I’d be fine with that. HP Lovecraft was actually a biracial fishman who was trying way too hard to cover up his heritage in order to be respected by his contemporaries. Eventually it became too much, and he faked his death and returned to the ocean to be with his people. But his stories had drifted down, and his own people shunned him for the things he said in his works. HP Lovecraft lives on to this day, pale and bloated beneath the waves, filled with regret for his words and deeds. He now posts on SA, trying in vain to connect to others like himself.
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Jul 21, 2019 23:29
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yeah not sure about that
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Jul 21, 2019 23:29
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i adore cumshitter
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Jul 22, 2019 00:00
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:oh right, it's like that lovecraft quote it's just not every day I see someone dunk another poster's alley-oop that hard like god loving drat that is an A+ post
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Jul 22, 2019 00:09
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Alan Smithee posted:When do I get to scream “fake bitcoin girl!!!” During a heated gamer livestream
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Jul 22, 2019 00:22
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Got a link for this thread?
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Jul 22, 2019 00:50
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:you love him, and you wish he would write you a manic dream girl to lead you through a variety of poorly-hanging-together escapades
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Jul 22, 2019 01:00
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Neil Gaiman rewrote a book of Norse myths and called it Norse Mythology. INSPIRED.Somfin posted:Lol Somfin posted:Got some bad news about the English literary canon, you might wanna sit down you seem pretty invested in defending your boyf so i'm just going to assure you that i've read just as much of his work as you have, and while i enjoy his work, i'm also capable of recognizing it's shortcomings. If you can't recognize where he's recycling the same story beats and plot arcs then that's just on you not being a very good reader. I think we can all agree that Gaiman's been fairly solidly eclipsed by China Mieville, whose stories share similar settings and themes but wildly different plot arcs.
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Jul 22, 2019 02:37
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Yeah China Meiville is good and interesting. Gaiman is ok too though.
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Jul 22, 2019 03:16
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I keep getting told good things about China Mieville's writing, haven't had a chance to read him.
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Jul 22, 2019 03:18
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I keep getting told good things about China Mieville's writing, haven't had a chance to read him. Same, but about your mum's writing.
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Jul 22, 2019 03:25
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:you seem pretty invested in defending your boyf Weird phrasing. Wouldn't recommend it. That bingo board you posted included squares for "death," "comedy" and "monster" which kinda put me on the wrong foot regarding how much of him you'd read vs. how much of him you'd read about on TVTropes. He's definitely guilty of recycling his fundamental plot but the fundamental plot hedges so close to the Campbell monomyth (including the General Nonsense Section) that I'm not convinced this is a Gaiman problem so much as it is a "these writers all kinda rehash the monomyth" problem.
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Jul 22, 2019 03:38
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I keep getting told good things about China Mieville's writing, haven't had a chance to read him. The first thing I read by him, which remains my favorite, is Un Lun Dun. It's a children's book so he doesn't get to be the weird sex perv he is and he's constrained enough in his prose that his ideas have to get inventive in a metatextual way I won't spoil for you. He's got two other standalone books I've enjoyed, The City & The City was confusing while I was reading it but afterwards I decided I liked it, at the end there's a bit where you can clearly see he's been influenced by european anarchist & similar social movements. There's one I don't remember the title of about aliens who eventually get addicted to lies and it destroys their civilization. Un Lun Dun is weird but he's not trying to get into your face with it. Somfin posted:That bingo board you posted included squares for "death," "comedy" and "monster" which kinda put me on the wrong foot regarding how much of him you'd read vs. how much of him you'd read about on TVTropes. He's definitely guilty of recycling his fundamental plot but the fundamental plot hedges so close to the Campbell monomyth (including the General Nonsense Section) that I'm not convinced this is a Gaiman problem so much as it is a "these writers all kinda rehash the monomyth" problem. Neverwhere, his short story collections, Good Omens, The Graveyard Book, all of his comics twice, American Gods, and i followed his blog for a while until he made some bitchy comments about a joke I made conflating Thesbians with Thebians. His issue isn't with the monomyth, his issue is that he rehashes the same specific story beats and general mood in all of his books. His contemporaries, who are largely trying to ride his coattails, rehash the same poo poo he rehashes because they learned it from him. Gaimanning is an extremely noticable, specific trend in older/middle aged white writers who grew up as a counterculture nerd. Mieville grew up in the industrial rave scene. A fairly major plot point in one of his earlier works (King Rat) actually hinges on how people dance to industrial music. I think that's a neat detail. I don't have any final point to make. Post over. PHIZ KALIFA has a new favorite as of 03:46 on Jul 22, 2019 |
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Jul 22, 2019 03:40
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Ugh take it to bookbarn you nerds.ol qwerty bastard posted:ah, the two things the french hate most: mosquitoes, and their larger brethren, mosques
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Jul 22, 2019 04:01
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WalletBeef posted:Cut my steak into pieces
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Jul 22, 2019 05:26
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Screaming Idiot posted:HP Lovecraft was actually a biracial fishman who was trying way too hard to cover up his heritage in order to be respected by his contemporaries. Eventually it became too much, and he faked his death and returned to the ocean to be with his people. but he was trans! sorta well, he grew up with his mother dressing him as a girl and telling everyone he was her daughter, while his father was dying in an asylum
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Jul 22, 2019 05:40
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Thats...extremely hosed up and I did not know that.
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Jul 22, 2019 05:48
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Didn't China Mieville turn out to be an abuser?
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Jul 22, 2019 07:58
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I keep getting told good things about China Mieville's writing, haven't had a chance to read him. Perdido st station annoyed the poo poo out of me with its endless dreary miserabilism but the guy can def write. City and the city is supposed to be good.
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Jul 22, 2019 08:25
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sebmojo posted:Perdido st station annoyed the poo poo out of me with its endless dreary miserabilism but the guy can def write. City and the city is supposed to be good. I haven’t read Perdido Street but I’ve read The Scar and City and the City and they both suffered from the same problem, which was that he’s really good at worldbuilding but less good at plot, so you get a lot of really great setup and then it’s like he suddenly remembers he needs to resolve things and doesn’t quite pull that part off as well as the rest of it. However, I’ve also heard that Dabir posted:Didn't China Mieville turn out to be an abuser? which I think has been borne out; my understanding is that he isn’t necessarily accused of things that are easily provable crimes, but that he is accused of things that people generally understand to be Bad.
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Jul 22, 2019 08:46
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I've read Perdido Street Station and it's a D&D setting sourcebook without the rules mechanics.
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Jul 22, 2019 09:58
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I hadn't heard anything about China Mieville being an abuser before, and after searching it all I can find is a very vague piece that reads a lot like "he cheated on me". Which is still lovely as hell (especially if you're the one on the receiving end), but not really what I'd call "abuse".
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Jul 22, 2019 10:09
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Yeah I've also heard the accusation thrown around before but I could never find a source that details any abuse, so if anyone's got it please do share it.
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Jul 22, 2019 10:27
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I can’t find anything concrete but I learned he is British which lets face it is practically an admission of Guilt
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Jul 22, 2019 10:32
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My impression of the situation—which could be wrong—is that because the accusations aren’t necessarily of crimes and can’t necessarily be proven, people aren’t writing “China Miéville did these specific things to me” because it would open them up to legal action.
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Jul 22, 2019 10:40
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Truthfully saying that somebody did a lovely yet legal thing doesn't open you up to a lawsuit. Exaggerating things because you were legitimately in love with someone and are incredibly angry at them for cheating on you definitely could though.
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Jul 22, 2019 10:51
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Wasn't Theodore Dreiser an abuser? Or am I thinking of Hemingway?
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Jul 22, 2019 10:56
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