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reignofevil posted:The short answer is that you can hack anything in your specialist's line of sight. The long analysis is that hacking is relatively pointless because the only way to make it reliable is to spend money researching the skullhack some more to get a kinda insufficient bonus then use that bonus to succeed in some hacks on randomly selected missions with randomly selected hack rewards and then after wrestling with the RNG you get to spend some precious training points giving the specialist haywire mode. That's why I used the Hack Plus mod, you gain a little bit of hacking skill with every attempt.
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Jul 19, 2019 14:38
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Danaru posted:On a related note, how exactly does gremlin hacking work, because I thought as long as someone on the team could see the target, the specialist could send out Hackbot but lately I've been having issues where my specialist still cant hack or haywire despite having another troop basically sitting on it You’re not alone in this. I feel like it originally worked as you describe but changed when they did the update to make grenades snap to tiles—but that’s just murky anecdotal evidence on my end. There’s definitely an LoS component to it now, and it’s a bit fuckey because LoS can be hard to judge in this game for several reasons—it’s why they added the cross-hairs icon to targets you can shoot. It would be “okay” if they’d put something in there for hack targets at least. From what I can tell, it’s the same rule set that applies to squadsight. You’re squadsight hacking. Which is dumb in a way but  I guess. I also take issue with people suggesting this doesn’t matter because “hacking sucks”, as that doesn’t take into account that sometimes you’re on a tight timer and need to remotely hack an objective to not fail the mission; you can do everything you need to do, go to make the remote hack, and all of a sudden you aren’t standing on the correct square to do it—even though it visually appears like you should be able to, and there’s no other indicator the game gives you to inform a different decision. This is made worse by the game placing many of these objectives behind full cover a space away from an opening.
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Jul 19, 2019 15:09
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Gotcha Again has a little gear icon when you mouse over a tile you can hack from. It’s really incredibly useful.
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Jul 19, 2019 16:10
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My current game is on PS4 so mods are off the table 
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Jul 19, 2019 17:51
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Even without getting lucky with Enemy Protocol rewards, just bringing skulljack + a good gremlin gives you guaranteed shutdowns on many enemies, which is pretty drat good. Actually controlling enemies is a bit of a crapshoot though.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:09
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Jabor posted:Even without getting lucky with Enemy Protocol rewards, just bringing skulljack + a good gremlin gives you guaranteed shutdowns on many enemies, which is pretty drat good. It's worth bringing a dedicated hacker just for hacking lamp posts, because the risk/reward often makes even low-percentage hacks worthwhile. 10% chance to get a facility lead is bad, but if the punishment is an extra pod on a map you've already wiped clean of enemies, well...  Hail Mary hacks can also bail you out of really bad situations. The one that gives everyone an extra 2 moves for the turn is a game-winning play basically every time you roll it.
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Jul 20, 2019 18:00
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Well my hacking question got rendered moot by my specialist freaking the gently caress out during the rescue mission and unloading on a random guard, prompting a nearby Andromedon to deck her in the face  Thankfully Outrider and Jane Kelly are two of the most reliable people on the planet, Outrider grabbed the rescuee, then Jane shredstormed the facility and opened up the entire prison wing, making it so Outrider could just barely swooce into the evac zone.Our drinking game meant I had to take eight drinks for losing a colonel, plus another one for her initial panic though 
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Jul 20, 2019 18:24
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there are safer penalties than alcohol poisoning out there
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Jul 21, 2019 14:28
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Tollymain posted:there are safer penalties than alcohol poisoning out there He's actually even worse off than you think and takes a drink when they miss too. And has somehow reached lategame without a drunken death spiral.
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Jul 21, 2019 19:09
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Today I learned that a just because the mission difficulty says ‘moderate’ doesn’t mean that the viper king won’t show. Also you should never, ever leave the hunting weapons behind.
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Jul 21, 2019 23:14
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The frost bomb is glued to one of my grenadiers, even after those assholes are dead.
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Jul 21, 2019 23:22
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Always kill a ruler first time you fight it.  They're listed on the Advent factory sitreps, you should be bringing your A-team.
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Jul 21, 2019 23:22
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I still think it's impossible to fight the Archon Ruler without losing at least 2 of your guys.
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Jul 22, 2019 00:37
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The first time I fought the Berzerker Queen in my current game, I had a concealed person watching her while the rest of my squad took turns plinking at her, expecting her to take a few good hits while she hauled her way across the map. Apparently they changed it in WOTC where they only do Ruler Reactions if they see your dudes, but also they stop moving on Alien Activity, meaning we plinked away for like 45 minutes and killed her there  I felt a little guilty for neutering a major threat like that but also I was absolutely using the free instafix against the Archon King. His upgraded Blazing Pinions is the most horse poo poo thing in the game because you can only move one guy and the rest just have to eat it 
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Jul 22, 2019 00:51
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It's well established that the only way to beat the Rulers without nasty casualties is to cheat even harder than they do. But yes, cheating generally requires you to know what you're getting into... I would say the closest you can come to just being universally prepared for a ruler is to bring a Reaper. Banish, claymores, or simply providing a spot for a friendly out-of-LOS sniper is how I deal with those fuckers nine times out of ten.
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Jul 22, 2019 01:04
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Beamed posted:I still think it's impossible to fight the Archon Ruler without losing at least 2 of your guys. Does insta gibbing him with an expanded mag + repeater banish count?
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Jul 22, 2019 02:29
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FoolyCharged posted:Does insta gibbing him with an expanded mag + repeater banish count? i think my favorite campaign was where the same soldier with a repeater executed two different rulers on two different missions it really made things a lot easier
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Jul 22, 2019 02:41
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Danaru posted:The first time I fought the Berzerker Queen in my current game, I had a concealed person watching her while the rest of my squad took turns plinking at her, expecting her to take a few good hits while she hauled her way across the map. Apparently they changed it in WOTC where they only do Ruler Reactions if they see your dudes, but also they stop moving on Alien Activity, meaning we plinked away for like 45 minutes and killed her there gently caress, I had LOS on him thanks to the reaper - that might have worked. I consider myself lucky to have got away with a mere 4 guys in the hospital and a grenadier who now has a crippling fear of vipers.
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Jul 22, 2019 07:47
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Every time I've fought the archon king I've nailed him with a lucky repeater proc. Every time.
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Jul 22, 2019 13:18
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While it’s not always possible, if you know (or have good suspicion) you’re going to face the Archon King, bring grappling hooks (skirmishers/spidersuits/wraithsuits), or soldiers/items that allow you to conceal—both concealing and grappling don’t cost an action so don’t trigger his reaction to drop the pinions. Grappling hooks are superior since you might not be able to conceal and move without being revealed—but it does give you a chance to mitigate the damage from that attack.
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Jul 22, 2019 17:19
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if you know you're gonna fight the Archon King, bring a banishing repeater extended mag Reaper to scout for your Sniper, and pray that when it's down to escape range, Banish will take it down.
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Jul 22, 2019 19:40
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Maybe I'm misremembering how early you get a banishing repeater extended mag reaper but this thread sure loves to say "bring a banishing repeater extended mag reaper" as advice for every difficult challenge, including many that are not end-game or sometimes even late-game. Like, yes: Banish, especially with extended mag, is an insanely powerful skill. Saying "just have great equipment on an almost top-level faction unit in every tough mission and lean exclusively on that" seems like a pretty unreliable strategy, or at the least, a boring one.
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Jul 22, 2019 20:49
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Archon King will gently caress you if you give him the chance and all the ruler factories are avoidable if you’re continually expanding resistance contacts. What’s the best way to not wipe a squad? Not give him a chance to wipe you.
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Jul 22, 2019 20:59
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Just bring a Reaper of any rank and at least one sharpshooter when you first accost an alien ruler at one of the Avatar sites. It'll take forever, but if you sit the Reaper somewhere safe to spot for you and sit your squad in a corner taking potshots, that Sharpshooter can chew through like two-thirds of the ruler's health before it finally freaks out and pisses off. By the time you run into it again, odds are good you'll be ready to finish it off. Or you could just never do Ruler facilities until you have twelve Colonels with superior weapon mods, but that's foolishness. When Advent builds things, it's XCom's solemn duty to immediately and spectacularly blow them up
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Jul 22, 2019 21:31
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I repeatered down the archon before WotC.
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Jul 22, 2019 21:32
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you're not misremembering vibrib, but the truly 'big' problem with the advice is the inclusion of the extended mag. a reaper with banish and a repeater is the soul of it and even a basic repeater is fine for this purpose. the extended mag part is barely worth including until the late tier mag (where it's adding something like +3 or +4 bullets). like if you have one with +1 and the reaper's weapon has space for it sure fine go ahead, but the important part is to have banish and to have a repeater - not necessarily a top tier one, though.
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Jul 22, 2019 22:22
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You're missing the other half of Vibrib's point, in that maybe you shouldn't rely on Reaper banish cheese for a standard gameplay element. Or you shouldn't have to. I remember a cute moment (pre-wotc); a guy came in saying he just beat the game leaning nothing but his favorite grenadiers, including 6 of them in the final mission. He was asking if that was normal, and it's kind of a shame the game lets you do that. I pointed out that it's better that the game lets you play with your favorite unit/style rather than have 'gotchas' that artificially force certain things. So kinda the same here. Reaper/Banish is undeniably strong, but it'd be nice if there was a more organic approach to rulers.
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Jul 22, 2019 23:41
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6 grenadiers sounds like utter comedy. That map would be nothing but alien bodies sitting in smoking craters, and the mad laughter of the TF2 Heavy echoing in the background.
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Jul 23, 2019 00:27
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Icon Of Sin posted:6 grenadiers sounds like utter comedy. That map would be nothing but alien bodies sitting in smoking craters, and the mad laughter of the TF2 Heavy echoing in the background. That's what every city map looked like in the original X-COM anyway.
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Jul 23, 2019 00:30
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There’s a weird cult of personality around reapers in this thread lately and I honestly think that it undercuts open discussion on tactics that would benefit newer players.
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Jul 23, 2019 01:14
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By all means go and get your team killed with a Templar. You’ll come crawling back.
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Jul 23, 2019 01:22
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Honestly I recommend cheesing the Archon King asap because for real a sniper with the Icarus Suit is absolute bananas when used properly. He can leap just about anywhere on the map and still have the moves to bust a fat poo poo onto whatever is pissing you off.
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Jul 23, 2019 01:22
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I've still only beaten the game on Legendary with the skirmishers, though the templars obliterate from midgame on; just basic awareness means you won't pull what you don't want to
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Jul 23, 2019 01:24
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Bogart posted:By all means go and get your team killed with a Templar. You’ll come crawling back. I’m actually on my 6th month of a “no deaths” “no mission failures” dark horizons legend ironman run starting with skirmishers and rushing sparks...and I’m about at the point where I can’t lose. So maybe stow the smarm. I also haven’t disabled the lost.
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Jul 23, 2019 01:32
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wuffles posted:I’m actually on my 6th month of a “no deaths” “no mission failures” dark horizons legend ironman run starting with skirmishers and rushing sparks...and I’m about at the point where I can’t lose. nobody cares
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Jul 23, 2019 01:35
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Templars own and I really wish melee was more high risk high reward rather than high risk ehhhh reward. At least Templars can use parry and momentum, my Rangers havent slashed anyone in forever.
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Jul 23, 2019 01:44
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Bogart posted:nobody cares i care
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Jul 23, 2019 01:45
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yeah i don't see 'organic' (i'm reading the word as basically meaning 'fundamental' here) strategies and a repeater banish as mutually exclusive. there's lots of stuff you can do to wear down and tear down rulers if the repeater banish fails to deliver, and since reaper-banish requires only one squad member and one weapon mod you have lots of resources with which to do that other stuff. i'd feel weirder about the idea if the setup required like half of your squad and lots of strategic outlay to accomplish it, but the only thing to set up repeater-banish that you wouldn't do anyway is attach the repeater (you might slap on a scope instead or whatever). it isn't like theoretical advice to, for example, not pursue the proving grounds to instead chase psionics early. i'm sure that could work in certain situations but that cuts off a ton of good options. e: though, on a similar note: reapers are hands down the most mechanically powerful soldiers in the game, this is known and we just talked about it 'recently'. if we're talking about advice for newer players, being aware of that is pretty darned important imho. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jul 23, 2019 |
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Jul 23, 2019 02:49
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Rulers are a lot more fun with mods that allow stunning attacks and also the ones that make the Rulers their own "faction" that will fight anyone nearby. But that's just my preference. Banishing / Repeater killing them always feels good too, I think.
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Jul 23, 2019 02:56
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TK-42-1 posted:i care Thanks! I really only attempted this for my personal amusement, but I'm glad to share my experience for those that might be interested. I was intrigued by the gauntlet that had been "thrown down" wrt to a reliance on power-leveling reapers and thought there was probably at least one other way. I don't have a ton to say about it, only that I decided to leverage skirmishers' strategic advantages as opposed to reapers' tactical advantages. I started by skipping a lot of scanned rumors to use the scanning bonus at skirmisher HQ to quickly acquire the resources gained by excavation and to rush Sparks. The central gambit is that Sparks offer the following advantages: 1. no fatigue or real downside to entering combat injured 2. not susceptible to the incapacitating effects of the chosen which is what makes them most dangerous early on 3. more durable than humans at the most critical phases where trooper death is most likely 4. shredding attack and heavy weapons from the get-go I think my first spark rolled off the assembly line on like 4/15, but the first mission available to use it on was easy to remember as it was on 4/20  I feel like that was pretty quick, all things considered. Funny enough, I actually completed the GTS early enough and got Mox to Sargent without really trying before the first retaliation...only to gently caress it up by starting construction on the proving grounds and leaving myself without the cash to buy squad size 1.  My opening build went gts > rr > proving grounds. Its 7/22 and I have 2 sparks, mag rifles and shotguns (and mag weapons +1 damage), frost grenade, and next retaliation I'll have enough corpses for a mimic beacon. I have squad size 6 and the training center. I figured I'd be a little starved for resources for weapons upgrades so I've been training extra specialists and rangers. I only have 2 grenadiers, but all 3 faction soldiers. I have way too many sharpshooters because Similarly, the first 2 permanent dark events are "chance for lost on every mission" and "advent troops can re-animate as psi-zombies". I also have the warlock first but he's a bit of a bitch when you have robots and mind-shields. Its not quite "in the bag" yet and there's a lot that could still happen--but I'm at the point where I feel I've "passed through the breach" and the things that could kill this run could affect any attempt equally.
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Jul 23, 2019 02:59
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