Stellaris: a second Astral Planes has hit the game

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Stellaris: a second Astral Planes has hit the game

SniperWoreConverse: Mar 20, 2010; Gun Saliva

Taear posted:

I know that mods sort of provide it but it'd be nice to get an official massive blast of new colours. I do wonder why right now the variety is quite small.

pick starting species with better sensory organs or get into genemods

# ? Jul 23, 2019 12:00

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# ? May 25, 2024 03:50

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Relevant Tangent posted:

Only if it can get stolen/be built by everyone. Psychic Gestalt Consciousnesses selling themselves to the Entity that randomly mutates species. Determined Exterminators slamming the EoC button so hard it breaks. AI making incredibly terrible deals as the xenophilic unionists sell their species to the Eater of Worlds.

I was actually thinking it would be neat if it could be stolen but acts even weirder than usual because you don't have the psychic chops. Obviously the original buldiers could just build a new one.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 12:25

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Serephina posted:

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:
An important note here is that if/when Diplomacy mechanics are reworked to be brought to 2019 standards my opinion on the matter may change.

Out of curiosity, which games have the modern standards that you speak of? The most recent batch of 4X games that I've played (Stellaris Civ ES2) have all suffered from awful AI and player interactions with them have been limited as a result.

I meant that in a "Travel methods and planetary management have been upgraded in Stellaris because their original iteration was so bad" not "I have seen a game with improved standards marked for this year".

Taear posted:

I know that mods sort of provide it but it'd be nice to get an official massive blast of new colours. I do wonder why right now the variety is quite small.

Devs have higher priorities would be my guess.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 13:59

Deuce: Jun 18, 2004; Mile High Club

scaterry posted:

God, that sounds hilarious. Picture please?

I swapped out for a dude with 25% faster excavation and it didn't change the days remaining but I think they count down faster?

# ? Jul 23, 2019 15:56

Gort: Aug 18, 2003; Good day what ho cup of tea

So what are the current power strategies for this game? I'm curious as to how broken you can get.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 15:57

Deuce: Jun 18, 2004; Mile High Club

Gort posted:

So what are the current power strategies for this game? I'm curious as to how broken you can get.

Just watched a video where a dude does a One Planet Strategy. Picks that pop-stealing ascension perk, steals everyone's pops and works them to death on his homeworld. Pretty hilarious. Relies on forever war.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 15:58

Cynic Jester: Apr 11, 2009; Let's put a simile on that face
A dazzling simile
Twinkling like the night sky

Gort posted:

So what are the current power strategies for this game? I'm curious as to how broken you can get.

Assimilators and their near vertical early game growth curve is incredibly hard to compete with over time. Exterminator/Purifier/Swarm rushes can mulch them early but can't compete into the mid and late game as they kill pops. Regular Empires are so-so and have a few builds that can sort-of compete with robots. Megacorps rely on other Empires having lots of pops to be effective. That's never a good position to be in.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 16:20

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

What�s the best tiny outliner mod? I searched and there�s like 600 of them all called some variation of �tiny outliner�

# ? Jul 23, 2019 16:54

Taear: Nov 26, 2004; Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Devs have higher priorities would be my guess.

I guess. I always just think they could shove some money at a mod maker and implement it in the game that way. Guess that's not as easy as it sounds though.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 18:09

Big Hubris: Mar 8, 2011

PittTheElder posted:

The UI list really needs Tiny Outliner v2, it's the most important one.

This is the best one.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 19:45

Mr Snips: Jan 9, 2009

Is there a way to view the production of every planet in one list? I want to see which of my planets has the highest research output but the planet and sectors view in the navigation bar doesn't show any planets in the frontier sector, which makes it basically useless

# ? Jul 23, 2019 20:07

CainsDescendant: Dec 6, 2007; Human nature

I say this without a hint of irony this game needs way more spreadsheets

# ? Jul 23, 2019 20:24

Leal: Oct 2, 2009

Cynic Jester posted:

Megacorps rely on other Empires having lots of pops to be effective. That's never a good position to be in.

I do regret getting megacorp, maybe its better in multiplayer but my megacorp runs go 1 of 2 ways:

1: I start as a normal megacorp, end up in universes full of robots, hive minds, other megacorps, purifiers and the remaining aliens just don't want to enter commercial pacts cause of the drat distance modifiers. I end up reforming my government. Then I realize I used an ascension slot on universal trade and I have to decide to stick with large empire sprawl penalties and not do the main gimmick of my authority, or squander the slot and go to something else.

2: I go criminal cause gently caress these people and their distance penalties and wanting an arm and a leg for 1 or 2 buildings on their capital. Then the AI imposes a police state and build 4 precincts on every planet, ensuring my stuff gets shut down in time. I decide to reform my government, and realize I cannot remove criminal syndicate and I have permanently wasted a civic slot.

Its a shame, it sounded interesting on paper.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 20:44

scaterry: Sep 12, 2012

Totally agree with everything said above.
Megacorp also has the dubious distinction of being the only dlc to disable content. It removes corporate dominion as a possible civic and prevents nomads from spawning.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 20:58

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Here's something I found worked. Wait until they've built out.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 21:44

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

scaterry posted:

Totally agree with everything said above.
Megacorp also has the dubious distinction of being the only dlc to disable content. It removes corporate dominion as a possible civic and prevents nomads from spawning.

Wait what?

# ? Jul 23, 2019 21:45

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Oh my god.

The default habitat district build logic does not take population into account. At all.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 21:53

CainsDescendant: Dec 6, 2007; Human nature

Megacorps work best if you're like me and make a bunch of empires with a decent rear end in a top hat/good guy ratio. I really don't like how a totally random galaxy spawns empires 90% of the time so I've developed a few different mixes of different empires, particularly since the random empire generator doesn't seem to take advantage of all the different mods I have very well.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 22:24

Aethernet: Jan 28, 2009; This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!; Grimey Drawer

I find megacorps work really well if you lean hard into trade value: fan xen, relevant civics etc. It makes it easier to get commercial pacts as the value you offer is a modifier, and you can get just tonnes of cash.

One thing I want to be able to do is to specialise really hard as a megacorp: the fast food building you can build in foreign empires should give +1% to the value of the food you sell on the galactic market, enabling you to ultimately focus hard on food and just buy everything else. Ditto for minerals, consumer goods and alloys: megacorps should really be about specialising production. Let me be Space MaccyDs, plz Paradox.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 22:36

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Splicer posted:

Oh my god.

The default habitat district build logic does not take population into account. At all.

They felt a little wonky to me the first two times I tried to use them. Most games even if I try I dont get the tech early enough for it to matter though so :shrug:

# ? Jul 23, 2019 22:46

IPlayVideoGames: Nov 28, 2004; I unironically like Anders as a character.

Aethernet posted:

One thing I want to be able to do is to specialise really hard as a megacorp: the fast food building you can build in foreign empires should give +1% to the value of the food you sell on the galactic market, enabling you to ultimately focus hard on food and just buy everything else. Ditto for minerals, consumer goods and alloys: megacorps should really be about specialising production. Let me be Space MaccyDs, plz Paradox.

I really like this idea.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 22:47

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

They felt a little wonky to me the first two times I tried to use them. Most games even if I try I dont get the tech early enough for it to matter though so

No I mean the AI weighting doesn't check if you've any workers for them before it starts slamming down districts. And it will only build housing if you have negative housing districts built. Not negative housing, negative housing districts ~~actually I'm not 100% what this is saying. It might mean negative housing districts available?~~ No I was right the first time, you need negative housing districts built in order to build housing districts.

Splicer fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jul 23, 2019

# ? Jul 23, 2019 23:12

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

Splicer posted:

No I mean the AI weighting doesn't check if you've any workers for them before it starts slamming down districts. And it will only build housing if you have negative housing districts built. Not negative housing, negative housing districts

Is there a good reason Paradox doesn't license GlaviusAI for redistribution with the base game?

# ? Jul 23, 2019 23:16

ZeusJupitar: Jul 7, 2009

Splicer posted:

Wait what?

The caravaneers replace the basic nomads.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 23:19

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Potato Salad posted:

Is there a good reason Paradox doesn't license GlaviusAI for redistribution with the base game?

It's like pulling a loose thread on a sweater. Oh hey the AI builds infinity habitats and never uses them, I'll fix that. Oh look they're colonised but not building districts, I wonder OH MY GOD. Well that's bad but not the end of the world. Wait, if they're this bad what does the Ringworld district AI look leeeeeugh

I am refusing to look at regular districts.

# ? Jul 23, 2019 23:42

Shugojin: Sep 6, 2007; THE TAIL THAT BURNS TWICE AS BRIGHT...

The only AI I have encountered that actually used its habitats was an Inward Perfectionist

And then I assimilated them. Which is how a lot of my Stellaris stories end.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 00:00

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Shugojin posted:

The only AI I have encountered that actually used its habitats was an Inward Perfectionist

And then I assimilated them. Which is how a lot of my Stellaris stories end.

Yeah this is all because I made a mod to make habitat and megastructure placement less awkward. I made it so you don't need to demolish any stations first by making the megastructure do it for you and setting ringworlds and habitats to kick off the colonisation process as soon as they complete. Then while digging I found something silly about how the AI decides to build habitats so I fixed that too. Now the AI is building habitats like gangbusters and actually putting pops on them but that's now exposed even more problems with vanilla which were non obvious before because the AI wasn't even getting that far.

e: OK it looks like all districts get some sneaky free resources if you're an AI even if there's nobody working the district.

Splicer fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jul 24, 2019

# ? Jul 24, 2019 00:12

Shugojin: Sep 6, 2007; THE TAIL THAT BURNS TWICE AS BRIGHT...

Splicer posted:

Yeah this is all because I made a mod to make habitat and megastructure placement less awkward. I made it so you don't need to demolish any stations first by making the megastructure do it for you and setting ringworlds and habitats to kick off the colonisation process as soon as they complete. Then while digging I found something silly about how the AI decides to build habitats so I fixed that too. Now the AI is building habitats like gangbusters and actually putting pops on them but that's now exposed even more problems with vanilla which were non obvious before because the AI wasn't even getting that far.

e: OK it looks like all districts get some sneaky free resources if you're an AI even if there's nobody working the district.

I was just sort of wondering aloud what it was about the Inward Perfectionist that made them actually colonize their habitats.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 01:10

Jabarto: Apr 7, 2007; I could do with your...assistance.

Leal posted:

I do regret getting megacorp, maybe its better in multiplayer but my megacorp runs go 1 of 2 ways:

1: I start as a normal megacorp, end up in universes full of robots, hive minds, other megacorps, purifiers and the remaining aliens just don't want to enter commercial pacts cause of the drat distance modifiers. I end up reforming my government. Then I realize I used an ascension slot on universal trade and I have to decide to stick with large empire sprawl penalties and not do the main gimmick of my authority, or squander the slot and go to something else.

2: I go criminal cause gently caress these people and their distance penalties and wanting an arm and a leg for 1 or 2 buildings on their capital. Then the AI imposes a police state and build 4 precincts on every planet, ensuring my stuff gets shut down in time. I decide to reform my government, and realize I cannot remove criminal syndicate and I have permanently wasted a civic slot.

Its a shame, it sounded interesting on paper.

I'm really disappointed with trade strategies in general. Trade income never amounts to more than a rounding error in the early game, and unless you're a megacorp or very specific brand of authoritarian, it never will.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 02:42

Aethernet: Jan 28, 2009; This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!; Grimey Drawer

Jabarto posted:

I'm really disappointed with trade strategies in general. Trade income never amounts to more than a rounding error in the early game, and unless you're a megacorp or very specific brand of authoritarian, it never will.

By endgame I find a large proportion of my income, and especially consumer goods production, is down to trade. What approach are you using to it?

# ? Jul 24, 2019 09:59

Vavrek: Mar 2, 2013; I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

Splicer posted:

Oh my god.

The default habitat district build logic does not take population into account. At all.

Speaking of, an update on my Megastructures QoL mod testing game:

Went spiritualist inward perfectionist, because I hadn't done that in a while and it wasn't in my set of plans for my next game with friends. Got the Baol precursor chain, whose relic bonus goes well with my founder species being non-adaptive. After using it, I stared at the nu-Baol for a bit, thinking about how I didn't really want to purge them ... and they did look very tasty. Grunur Prime is currently a (Gaia) Thrall World holding 146 nerve-stapled delicious Nu-Baol. Along the way, I figured out that if you take Arcology Project first, then add Agrarian Idyll, it works and you can have ecumenopoleis and bonus housing for your resource districts. (Of course, I replaced all my farming districts with livestock, so I'm kind of missing the point of the civic.)

Somewhere in the mid-2300s I finally remembered the point of the campaign and began building habitats. The player-facing side of it, of having habitats instantly begin colonization, is a godsend. Giving the habitats names based on the empire namelist is a very nice touch. Haven't built a ringworld yet.

Since I'm not going out on wars of conquest, I realized I wouldn't see how well or poorly the AI was dealing with habitats, so I built a Sentry Array. Looking at my neighbors, they seem to be spamming habitats (not unlike myself), and since they're autocolonized, they don't end up with a bunch of empty habs. This is good! However, uh. Well, you're seeing now what AI building logic is like.

So: An improvement! This mod is definitely going into my regular rotation for as long as it's up to date and compatible with the game. If you somehow end up fixing AI building logic one insanity at a time, you will be a god among goons. I wish you all the luck in the world.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 11:07

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

I consider the Consumer Good trade policy the best now because if you stack Clerks and Merchants, they do triple duty creating Consumer Goods, Energy, and Amenities, and you basically free up building slots for more alloys, research, or what have you.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 11:43

Digital Osmosis: Nov 10, 2002; Smile, Citizen! Happiness is Mandatory.

Yeah, I always hate needing to build consumer good factories when I have the consumer trade benefit. Feels like I've done something wrong - which to be fair is probably true, I probably should have just built more trade buildings.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 15:22

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Jabarto posted:

I'm really disappointed with trade strategies in general. Trade income never amounts to more than a rounding error in the early game, and unless you're a megacorp or very specific brand of authoritarian, it never will.

What kind of strategies have you tried? I really love the flexibility that trade adds and I never shy away from adding Clerk jobs and actively build my space stations so I can collect trade the most efficient way possible.

Digital Osmosis posted:

Yeah, I always hate needing to build consumer good factories when I have the consumer trade benefit. Feels like I've done something wrong - which to be fair is probably true, I probably should have just built more trade buildings.

Half of my planets are CG worlds in most of my games :negative:

AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jul 24, 2019

# ? Jul 24, 2019 15:25

Nuclearmonkee: Jun 10, 2009

Digital Osmosis posted:

Yeah, I always hate needing to build consumer good factories when I have the consumer trade benefit. Feels like I've done something wrong - which to be fair is probably true, I probably should have just built more trade buildings.

Works best with slaves and/or stratification to minimize your own consumer goods needs. Run militarized economy and you shouldn't need too many consumer goods factories, if any. Make up the shortfall that trade doesn't cover for w/ a monthly buy order on the market.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 16:19

Splicer: Oct 16, 2006; from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Vavrek posted:

Speaking of, an update on my Megastructures QoL mod testing game:

Went spiritualist inward perfectionist, because I hadn't done that in a while and it wasn't in my set of plans for my next game with friends. Got the Baol precursor chain, whose relic bonus goes well with my founder species being non-adaptive. After using it, I stared at the nu-Baol for a bit, thinking about how I didn't really want to purge them ... and they did look very tasty. Grunur Prime is currently a (Gaia) Thrall World holding 146 nerve-stapled delicious Nu-Baol. Along the way, I figured out that if you take Arcology Project first, then add Agrarian Idyll, it works and you can have ecumenopoleis and bonus housing for your resource districts. (Of course, I replaced all my farming districts with livestock, so I'm kind of missing the point of the civic.)

Somewhere in the mid-2300s I finally remembered the point of the campaign and began building habitats. The player-facing side of it, of having habitats instantly begin colonization, is a godsend. Giving the habitats names based on the empire namelist is a very nice touch. Haven't built a ringworld yet.

Since I'm not going out on wars of conquest, I realized I wouldn't see how well or poorly the AI was dealing with habitats, so I built a Sentry Array. Looking at my neighbors, they seem to be spamming habitats (not unlike myself), and since they're autocolonized, they don't end up with a bunch of empty habs. This is good! However, uh. Well, you're seeing now what AI building logic is like.

So: An improvement! This mod is definitely going into my regular rotation for as long as it's up to date and compatible with the game. If you somehow end up fixing AI building logic one insanity at a time, you will be a god among goons. I wish you all the luck in the world.

Thanks, I really appreciate this. I've been running tests with mature_galaxy and fast_forward but they have limitations. I'd like to take credit for the naming but it's an ~~unintended bug~~ emergent feature of the start_colony command bypassing a lot of the player facing colony setup, including asking you for a name. And yeah, every time I find one weird AI logic thing it leads me to another. For example, as I said earlier the AI will never build habitat city districts. Eh, fine, I can see the logic. It will only build trade districts if your empire has negative consumer goods income or you have already built a trade district. Again, fine, maybe not what I would have done but I see the logic. But:

code:

ai_weight = {
		weight = 0
		modifier = {
			weight = 1000
			owner = { has_valid_civic = civic_machine_servitor }
			NOT = { planet = { has_district = district_hab_cultural } }
		}
	}

That's the entire vanilla AI weighting for if you want to build a leisure district on a habitat. Are you a rogue servitor? Do you have zero built already? Build one. Everyone else? Nah. So if an AI has positive consumer goods and builds a habitat on a no-deposit planet it will never build districts on that habitat. Ever.

Shugojin posted:

I was just sort of wondering aloud what it was about the Inward Perfectionist that made them actually colonize their habitats.

The colonisation logic for non-robots requires them to have positive food income and a bunch of food stockpiled before the AI even considers saving up for a colony ship. Maybe the inward perfectionists are somehow running more food than everyone else? Maybe they're running less alloys or influence so they're building less habitats and are able to keep pace with construction? The big issue with vanilla (apart from user convenience) I'm trying to sort out was that "Can/will I build a habitat" and "Can/will I build a colony ship" are two completely unrelated AI actions.

Splicer fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jul 24, 2019

# ? Jul 24, 2019 18:04

Vavrek: Mar 2, 2013; I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

... huh. Maybe I should build leisure districts, ever. I'm not really sure what I want to be doing with all these habitats I have. Maybe leisure districts is it.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 18:12

RedSnapper: Nov 22, 2016

toasterwarrior posted:

I consider the Consumer Good trade policy the best now because if you stack Clerks and Merchants, they do triple duty creating Consumer Goods, Energy, and Amenities, and you basically free up building slots for more alloys, research, or what have you.

My last Despoilers run was four city-worlds packed full with commercial zones and armies of slave clerks, crunching numbers in their tiny cubicles

# ? Jul 24, 2019 18:39

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

My issue with trade is kind of the opposite, where it ends up so high in the late game that it's impossible for me to use passive suppression on piracy without like, dropping a starbase in every sector along a route and loading it up with hangers. I really feel like piracy suppression effectiveness of starbase modules should scale with tech. Adding +10 per module kind of doesn't cut it anymore when you've got 600+ trade flowing through a route.

I mean yeah I could just patrol but giving patrol orders is awkward since you can't queue up a route manually so you need multiple fleets to hit all the trouble spots usually, plus it clutters up my already very crowded outliner with a bunch of fleets that are otherwise pretty useless.

I tend to end up with a lot of trade just because after a while I can't really figure out what to build outside of commercial zones. They employ the most pops of any individual building and I don't really NEED anything except for people to stop bitching about being unemployed.

The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jul 24, 2019

# ? Jul 24, 2019 19:21

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# ? May 25, 2024 03:50

Aethernet: Jan 28, 2009; This is the Captain...

Our glorious political masters have, in their wisdom, decided to form an alliance with a rag-tag bunch of freedom fighters right when the Federation has us at a tactical disadvantage. Unsurprisingly, this has resulted in the Feds firing on our vessels...

Damn you Huxley!; Grimey Drawer

The Cheshire Cat posted:

My issue with trade is kind of the opposite, where it ends up so high in the late game that it's impossible for me to use passive suppression on piracy without like, dropping a starbase in every sector along a route and loading it up with hangers. I really feel like piracy suppression effectiveness of starbase modules should scale with tech. Adding +10 per module kind of doesn't cut it anymore when you've got 600+ trade flowing through a route.

I mean yeah I could just patrol but giving patrol orders is awkward since you can't queue up a route manually so you need multiple fleets to hit all the trouble spots usually, plus it clutters up my already very crowded outliner with a bunch of fleets that are otherwise pretty useless.

This is where you build gates on your HW and every trade starbase, and presto no more piracy because trade never passes through an unprotected system.

# ? Jul 24, 2019 19:24

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