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Dog Friday posted:At this point what do the Democrats have to lose by initiating impeachment proceedings? Senate will kill it sure but at least it could act as a rallying call to mobilize Dem voters in 2020... They have zero chance of swinging Trump voters anyway. According to the Democrats, there are a significant number of voters who will take a failed impeachment as proof of innocence and then not vote D in 2020 when they otherwise would have. According to others, there are few if any such voters. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:52
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Your Boy Fancy posted:If you believe this in your heart, you would be storming the Capitol. Or just riding it out because nobody expects that they’ll be the hero this moment requires, and the people most positioned to be that person aren’t up to the task There is no shame in coming to the realization that you have been defeated.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:52
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Dog Friday posted:At this point what do the Democrats have to lose by initiating impeachment proceedings? Senate will kill it sure but at least it could act as a rallying call to mobilize Dem voters in 2020... They have zero chance of swinging Trump voters anyway. I don't understand the Vichy's mindset, but I think the thing that the dems are afraid of is that a failure of impeachment would not only kill momentum and drive to vote, but also break decorum permanently. I think Pelosi believes that the only thing congress would ever do from then until forever would just be to attempt to impeach whoever the president was.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:52
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DandyLion posted:Rule of Law is a myth to begin with. well yeah it's used to protect the powerful and hurt the weak but even the facade of it is far gone at this point. admin officials are just going "lol" to congressional subpoenas and congress isn't doing anything about it. this is the most nakedly corrupt administration in history and we barely hear a peep from the committees that are supposed to deal with that. the gop tried to steal a house seat and get a do-over instead of it automatically going to the democrat like it should have. kemp straight up stole georgia. a majority of the supreme court will accept obviously bad faith arguments as long as the admin doesn't change those arguments midstream.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:52
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scuz posted:The republicans all sound like Glenn Beck with their lines of questioning. Just conspiracy theory bullshit. This timeline is so dumb. That *is* the Republican party now. it's always been an element of it since at least Goldwater but now its become the dominant part. Every single Republican is an insane conspiracy nutjob.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:53
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eke out posted:the lines of questioning by people like Hakeem Jeffries, who are close allies of Pelosi and have been in the "we must wait to decide on impeachment" camp, have been very interesting. There's a school of thought (mostly from the DeepSlate crowd) that the reason Mueller asked for Justice's letter on his testimony was to shortcircuit the GOP chaff cannon of ~Steele Dossier~ nonsense and that Barr leapt right in because he's Barr and a moron. The secondary value was to focus Dem efforts to what Mueller believed mattered (the report, which this theory holds Mueller designed as a roadmap for Dem investigation and impeachment). Grain of salt because the lawfare crowd actually believes the "Mueller will fix it all!" nonsense that gets turned into the strawman CB and others have spent the day bandying about, but they're also some of the few who actually understand Justice, house investigations, executive privilege, and how these interplay. (e: oh hey, this became relevant to the intervening discussion!) Towards Hakeem/Pelosi/Impeachment, this is where my own bias comes out. I can't help but notice their impeachment comments have been a variation on "we're not there, yet", and that squares with my belief that impeaching Trump today is only slightly less moronic than not doing so at all. So I see today (including/especially Hakeem's questioning) as another step down that road. Impeachment will reveal more damning info, motivate the base, create a media circus, and put the every Republican on record to cover for his crimes... and have zero chance of actually removing him from office. Given that, there's little reason to do it 15 months before the next opportunity for people to vote. Especially when the newsmedia is splitting its time between covering the Dem contenders and the administration's Crisis of the (infrastructure) Week. I'd love to hear the benefits of today vs March or July '20, but most of what I find are the benefits of now vs "never".
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Jul 24, 2019 16:55
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"Now that the Republicans have delivered their five minute uninterrupted closing argument, the remaining Democrats will be limiting their time so we can get outta here quickly." Very cool.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:56
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Has anyone made the joke #MuellerHearingAid yet
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Jul 24, 2019 16:57
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Ershalim posted:I don't understand the Vichy's mindset, but I think the thing that the dems are afraid of is that a failure of impeachment would not only kill momentum and drive to vote, but also break decorum permanently. I think Pelosi believes that the only thing congress would ever do from then until forever would just be to attempt to impeach whoever the president was. Which is so loving stupid because that's exactly what the Republicans did under Obama and Clinton and what they're going to do under every Democratic president until the end of time. "We can't impeach the guy who committed crimes because then the other team will keep trying to impeach our guys!"
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Jul 24, 2019 16:57
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Jesus Christ push back on the Steele Dossier attacks.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:57
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selec posted:
Yes actually, there is - depending on what is at stake. More than 2000 people were saved because people decided not to give up. So if you aren’t going to join the fight, if you aren’t going to support the fight, then shut up and get out of our way.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:58
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Mueller doesn't know who appointed him. lol
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Jul 24, 2019 16:58
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Running low on time, might as well give this guy a handjob.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:58
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Dog Friday posted:At this point what do the Democrats have to lose by initiating impeachment proceedings? Senate will kill it sure but at least it could act as a rallying call to mobilize Dem voters in 2020... They have zero chance of swinging Trump voters anyway. M4A arguments and other things that are at best indirectly rated to Our Big lovely Racist Clown President are poll-tested as winners. Impeaching the president potentially blows that strategy up. With Mueller refusing to give any actual recommendation--a serious mistake on his part whatever his intentions, as he resolved nothing and immediately allowed Barr to spin it--the impeachment issue is effectively dead, as he's robbed it of any momentum it had. Now we're in bunker mentality where everyone is just waiting for the Democrats to pick a nominee and get this over with one way or the other.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:58
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Remember when Mueller lied to Congress about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction lmao.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:59
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Tibalt posted:
laughs in The Comedian
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Jul 24, 2019 16:59
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selec posted:Or just riding it out because nobody expects that they’ll be the hero this moment requires, and the people most positioned to be that person aren’t up to the task 1-800-273-TALK Not joking, not referring specifically to you but a few of you are really worrying me this morning
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Jul 24, 2019 16:59
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The rule of law will prevail. The rule of law will prevail
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Jul 24, 2019 17:00
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Reflecting on the timidity of the report (despite what it says between the lines) and Mueller today, the overriding problem with Mueller is that he is a Republican.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:00
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Democrats keep falling for this trap that republicans listen to reason and logic lmao
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Jul 24, 2019 17:01
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Mueller isn't here to force the house to do their job, he's here to pretend everyone is arguing in good faith and that The System™ will save us.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:02
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Paracaidas posted:Towards Hakeem/Pelosi/Impeachment, this is where my own bias comes out. I can't help but notice their impeachment comments have been a variation on "we're not there, yet", and that squares with my belief that impeaching Trump today is only slightly less moronic than not doing so at all. So I see today (including/especially Hakeem's questioning) as another step down that road. while i broadly agree with you, the reason i said 'inquiry' is because obviously a vote to impeach is completely useless. but there's no shortage of witnesses to call before judiciary, subpoenas to issue, court battles, etc, that can keep an inquiry open for 15 months as far as I'm concerned - and it's far harder to dodge subpoenas when they are explicitly connected to one
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Jul 24, 2019 17:03
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Punk da Bundo posted:Democrats keep falling for this trap that republicans listen to reason and logic lmao At least the younger reps realize the Republicans never act in good faith.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:04
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HelloSailorSign posted:Yes actually, there is - depending on what is at stake. Basically this. As long as we’re breathing, there’s work to be done.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:05
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HelloSailorSign posted:Yes actually, there is - depending on what is at stake. What fight? What way? Where are you going? There is a grassroots insurgent left across the nation and the DNC and DCCC are their biggest opponents ably aided by the same media flogging this narrative that The System would be fine if it werent for the perfidious and wily Slav. Willie Tomg fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 17:05
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Ershalim posted:I don't understand the Vichy's mindset, but I think the thing that the dems are afraid of is that a failure of impeachment would not only kill momentum and drive to vote, but also break decorum permanently. I think Pelosi believes that the only thing congress would ever do from then until forever would just be to attempt to impeach whoever the president was. The painful thing is that the Republicans wouldn't hesitate for a second if they were in a position to impeach a Democrat president
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Jul 24, 2019 17:05
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lol owned on that point of inquiry
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Jul 24, 2019 17:06
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Calibanibal posted:The rule of law will prevail. The rule of law will prevail
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Jul 24, 2019 17:08
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Dog Friday posted:The painful thing is that the Republicans wouldn't hesitate for a second if they were in a position to impeach a Democrat president I am still shocked they didn’t seriously try with Obama.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:08
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Let's get the discussion back on track with the hearing please, rather than The System in abstract. We hear plenty on that point already and there's actively news going on.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:09
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Dog Friday posted:The painful thing is that the Republicans wouldn't hesitate for a second if they were in a position to impeach a Democrat president Like the 6 years they controlled the house and Senate under Obama?
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Jul 24, 2019 17:09
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Everyone trying to trick Mueller into saying the I-word
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Jul 24, 2019 17:10
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Mueller refusing to say the word impeachment like its fuckin Voldemort's name. "I believe I heard you mention it." "Impeachment. Is that correct?" "I'm not gonna comment."
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Jul 24, 2019 17:10
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They only controlled the Senate 2 years under Obama
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Jul 24, 2019 17:10
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bird cooch posted:Like the 6 years they controlled the house and Senate under Obama? They never had anything concrete like the Mueller Report. If it had been word for word about Obama, they'd have broken the land speed record racing back to Capitol Hill to begin proceedings.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:11
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Willie Tomg posted:What fight? What way? Where are you going? “Democrats are such controlled opposition and have such learned helplessness” *exudes learned helplessness whenever asked to put good into the world* You were just loving told that 2,000 families were targeted by ICE raids, and activism is universally credited for keeping the numbers down to 35 individuals. That fight, that way, and we’re going forward. Get into your community and do something you’ll be proud you were part of.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:12
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Your Boy Fancy posted:You were just loving told that 2,000 families were targeted by ICE raids, and activism is universally credited for keeping the numbers down to 35 individuals. That fight, that way, and we’re going forward. Get into your community and do something you’ll be proud you were part of. I do, specifically with families in Texas, and the Democrats have fuckall to do with it. The federal Dems abet the raids. Neighborhoods resist. Take your own goddamned advice.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:12
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bird cooch posted:Like the 6 years they controlled the house and Senate under Obama? "Conservatives didn't do bad thing X years ago therefore they won't do it" is exactly, and I mean exactly, the mentality that has crippled the progressive movement in the US for the last 70+ years. They openly stole a Supreme Court seat! They are operating concentration camps on US soil! There is nothing they won't do. The only thing constraining them now is tactics.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:12
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bird cooch posted:Like the 6 years they controlled the house and Senate under Obama? They didn't have Obama stone cold on obstruction though
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Jul 24, 2019 17:13
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Useful hearing. They’re laying the case down. It’s not happening at the speed we want, but it’s happening. They’re gonna drum impeachment proceedings through the House for a year, and vote to conclude in late October, and I’m going to laugh, and laugh, and laugh.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:14
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