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I dunno I feel like demon explores themes of identity more strongly than changeling tends to, and changeling is way more about the trauma survival aspects and rebuilding a life.
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Jul 23, 2019 04:03
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Promethean is right there.
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Jul 23, 2019 04:18
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My biggest problem with Demon is it's 2E and I'm a grog who prefers nWoD 1E.
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Jul 23, 2019 05:37
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I would love Demon if any of the powers were understandable. I love the set up, I love the backstory and so much of it requires a creativity of using rules I just don't have.
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Jul 23, 2019 08:13
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I would do terrible things for a total conversion of the ChroD setting and splat powers into a Nobilis-like system. You can build a ChroD-style vampire or mage in Nobilis pretty easily with the Superior Quality and magic Skill system and maybe one or two Gifts. They just wouldn't be PC-level.
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Jul 23, 2019 08:36
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The problem with treating Demon as similar to Changeling is that demons were never human to begin with. They were even more alien before the Fall. There is no normal life for them to compare with – for them, normal is being a barely sapient party of a great machine. They aren't even similar to fetches, because they don't think they are the person they replaced. If your family member is replaced with a fetch, what you get is a family member that is slightly different and will turn into trash after they die, but in most parts still thinks as the person you knew. If they make a Pact with a demon and it comes to collect, that person is gone. Instead, you get a doppelganger that can perfectly lie and whose ambitions and plans mostly involve a giant occult supercomputer.
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Jul 23, 2019 10:58
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If it's not too late, don't be a Setite. Be a Baali posing as a Setite.
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Jul 23, 2019 16:44
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Gantolandon posted:The problem with treating Demon as similar to Changeling is that demons were never human to begin with. They were even more alien before the Fall. There is no normal life for them to compare with – for them, normal is being a barely sapient party of a great machine. The Unlife Aquatic posted:A Demon's Fall is presented an equally traumatic event (even when, and especially if, it's undertaken knowingly), and there's a strong focus on the idea They'll Never Be The Same because they're amputating everything that can't be stuffed into their biomechanical horror of a body and how deeply their Fall ends up shaping their entire worldview. Yes, there's more focus on the trauma element in Changeling, but it's just as present in Demon. (Especially when Intergrators and Exiles come into play) EimiYoshikawa posted:I'm not saying Demon is bad, just to be clear. I just haven't been able to get over my annoyance in the sheer number of elements it lifted from Changeling, particularly after Changeling Pacts got neutered messily in 2e presumably because now it was a core element in Demon. These are all good points and you're right, these games are exploring humanity as a theme, just from different perspectives. Changelings represent a return or reclamation of humanity, Promethian is the genesis of humanity (an initial transformation rather than the changeling's return to form) and Demon represents the appropriation of humanity as a defense against inhuman factors. That last bit also applies to Changeling, but in this case the actors are outsiders posing as humans rather than humans who became outsiders. Yeah the more I play this out the more I see your points. Hmmmm. Did I just learn something from a discussion on the internet? I need to sit down.
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Jul 23, 2019 18:24
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:These are all good points and you're right, these games are exploring humanity as a theme, just from different perspectives. Changelings represent a return or reclamation of humanity, Promethian is the genesis of humanity (an initial transformation rather than the changeling's return to form) and Demon represents the appropriation of humanity as a defense against inhuman factors. I'd agree with your point all three explore trauma and its fundamental relationship with what it means to be human from a different angle.
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Jul 23, 2019 18:38
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I think one salient difference between Demon and Changeling is that it's totally acceptable to play a Demon who honestly doesn't give a gently caress about being human. You can play a Demon who only does Demon things and knows just enough about human life to not blow their cover, whose endgame is a triumphant return to being a useful cog in the god-machine. Changelings who have that relationship with humanity usually don't make their way back from Arcadia. In practice I think the vast majority of Demon PCs don't have that relationship with humanity, because that kind of character is most interesting as a foil, but it's a valid play style.
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Jul 23, 2019 18:45
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Digital Osmosis posted:I think one salient difference between Demon and Changeling is that it's totally acceptable to play a Demon who honestly doesn't give a gently caress about being human. You can play a Demon who only does Demon things and knows just enough about human life to not blow their cover, whose endgame is a triumphant return to being a useful cog in the god-machine. Changelings who have that relationship with humanity usually don't make their way back from Arcadia.
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Jul 23, 2019 19:09
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Wife just woke up and told me about her dream where King James had a drone strike policy. How do I use this in a game? Can he have been a Seer of the Throne?
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Jul 24, 2019 06:19
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Xinder posted:Wife just woke up and told me about her dream where King James had a drone strike policy. How do I use this in a game? Can he have been a Seer of the Throne? There is a simultaneously very traditional but technologically modern Dead Dominion.
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Jul 24, 2019 11:07
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Considering the current state of the world, do you think "awaken the Yellowstone Caldera" is an option in the Garou Nation's arsenal?
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Jul 24, 2019 16:26
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Considering the current state of the world, do you think "awaken the Yellowstone Caldera" is an option in the Garou Nation's arsenal? One of the Apocalypse scenarios had the Red Talons awaken a bunch of supervolcanoes around the world to wipe out humanity.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:30
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MonsieurChoc posted:One of the Apocalypse scenarios had the Red Talons awaken a bunch of supervolcanoes around the world to wipe out humanity. I really need to read Apocalypse.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:44
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Jonas Albrecht posted:I really need to read Apocalypse. The Tribe Falls scenarios were written while on only the finest Peyote. Judging by the CoG and Wendigo ones.
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Jul 24, 2019 16:48
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Jonas Albrecht posted:I really need to read Apocalypse. It's easily the best of the End of the World books.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:02
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Considering the current state of the world, do you think "awaken the Yellowstone Caldera" is an option in the Garou Nation's arsenal? Probably only the Red Talons consider it seriously. There's a thing in Rage Across Egypt where absolutely none of the tribes think blowing up the Aswan Dam is a good idea... except for the Talons.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:05
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I admire Werewolf's dedication to having a PC faction whose whole thing is that they're evil and really stupid.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:07
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The best part is that they aren't really "evil" per say, it's just that their culture has demonized problem solving, empathy, and critical thinking skills to the point that they don't behave like wolves anymore, they behave like caricatures of evil predator wolves because that's how they think wolves are.
Kurieg fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 17:16
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Halloween Jack posted:I admire Werewolf's dedication to having a PC faction whose whole thing is that they're evil and really stupid. Isn't "Really Stupid" the common thing with all the Apocalypse tribes anyway? Like these dumb assholes wouldn't be in the spot their in if they weren't superpowered hammers dealing with every problem like a nail.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:19
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Yeah as anti-industrial as they are woofs map fairly perfectly as a metaphor for the hubris of white capitalism. That's probably intentional? Either way it's hard to play a mixed breeds game without running into Historical Oppressor Syndrome.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:24
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joylessdivision posted:Isn't "Really Stupid" the common thing with all the Apocalypse tribes anyway? Like these dumb assholes wouldn't be in the spot their in if they weren't superpowered hammers dealing with every problem like a nail. Yeah and I honestly think it's really dumb and unnecessary. Like, the Garou Nation has enough conflict without a history of being trashfire dullards.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:32
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Kurieg posted:The Tribe Falls scenarios were written while on only the finest Peyote. Judging by the CoG and Wendigo ones. Its been a while since I've read it, but I remember my takeaway was that they really really wanted every tribe to have a way to fall, and weren't going to let anything including story coherence get in the way of that.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:39
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Kurieg posted:The best part is that they aren't really "evil" per say, it's just that their culture has demonized problem solving, empathy, and critical thinking skills to the point that they don't behave like wolves anymore, they behave like caricatures of evil predator wolves because that's how they think wolves are. You have to hand it to the tribe who (mostly) thinks sapience needs to be kicked right in the dick.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:45
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Kurieg posted:The best part is that they aren't really "evil" per say, it's just that their culture has demonized problem solving, empathy, and critical thinking skills to the point that they don't behave like wolves anymore, they behave like caricatures of evil predator wolves because that's how they think wolves are. Which is doubly hilarious because this is the tribe that only accepts members if they come from actual wolf stock. No humans allowed.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:53
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Dawgstar posted:You have to hand it to the tribe who (mostly) thinks sapience needs to be kicked right in the dick. It always amazes me that the Predator Kings have more nuance than the tribe they were based on.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:03
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And they have a camp that's basically "Yeah we know that's not how wolves work, but good luck explaining that to the leadership, and they'd be even worse if we weren't here trying to mellow them out."
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Jul 24, 2019 18:06
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Mors Rattus posted:It always amazes me that the Predator Kings have more nuance than the tribe they were based on.
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Jul 24, 2019 18:08
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To be fair if I were a normal wolf who suddenly gained sapience when I matured into an adult, and I found out the world was the way it is in the World of Darkness (or the real world in 2019), I'd be pretty pissed off about my entire situation too
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Jul 24, 2019 20:15
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Hey, nothing wrong with being The Amish But With Spirit Friends when spirits are demonstrably real and strong and your friends No, that’s the Ivory Claws of Ohio. The Predator Kings are the ones whose mandate is respect for the hunt and whose primary goal is to reject modernity and the ways of men in order to return the world to the primal state of pure predator and prey that characterized ancient Pangaea.
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Jul 24, 2019 20:29
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Mors Rattus posted:No, that’s the Ivory Claws of Ohio. And yeah: rejecting modernity. Amish. It was also a joke dude.
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Jul 24, 2019 20:38
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Mors Rattus posted:The Predator Kings are the ones whose mandate is respect for the hunt and whose primary goal is to reject modernity and the ways of men in order to return the world to the primal state of pure predator and prey that characterized ancient Pangaea. I think I liked it referred to as the 'ancient cycle of life and death,' but having them as boogeywolves who go after Forsaken that don't respect the Sacred Hunt is a nice hat for them.
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Jul 24, 2019 21:34
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:The Ivory Claws are more Mormons: Familyfamilyfamily eugenics ancestry dna lineage familyfamilyfamily Oh, no, you don't understand. the Ohio Ivory Claws are literally Mennonites and Amish e: like this is an actual local setting written up in the 2e core e2: also I bring them up compulsively whenever possible because I think they own Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 24, 2019 |
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Jul 24, 2019 22:19
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It was the Fire-Touched who infiltrated the Amish, corrupted some of the more extreme factions, then began poisoning wells and skirmishing with Forsaken. The Ivory Claws stepped in when things got so bad that they thought all werewolves might be driven out of the area (and, later, when the government came calling to force the draft) but otherwise seem to be more focused on their bloodline and aren't called out as Amish or Mennonites.
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Jul 24, 2019 22:38
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Oh, hell yeah then. I'm still sad the only mixed-splat game I ever played in only went like 2 sessions, playing some real Howling Commandos poo poo as a Predator King ripping open tanks in WW2 because the war was so bad for the spiritual ecosystem of Europe.
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Jul 24, 2019 23:10
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Man, Orpheus really is my favorite gameline from cWOD.
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Jul 24, 2019 23:15
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I just got a big ole box full of old Werewolf and Kindred of the East splatbooks, is anyone looking for anything in particular? There's a hardbound Wraith book that I think I'm going to hang onto.
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Jul 25, 2019 00:15
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I could use most of Werewolf and Resplendent Cranes.
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Jul 25, 2019 00:22
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