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Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe Biden, the Inappropriate Toucher |
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18 | 1.46% |
| Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer |
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665 | 54.11% |
| Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker |
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319 | 25.96% |
| Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord |
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26 | 2.12% |
| Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Julian Castro, the Twin |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath |
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17 | 1.38% |
| Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino |
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3 | 0.24% |
| Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist |
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8 | 0.65% |
| Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen |
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86 | 7.00% |
| Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater |
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23 | 1.87% |
| Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool |
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32 | 2.60% |
| Eric Swalwell, the Insurance Wife Guy |
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2 | 0.16% |
| Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast |
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1 | 0.08% |
| Bill de Blasio, the NYPD Most Hated |
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4 | 0.33% |
| Tim Ryan, the Dope Face |
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3 | 0.24% |
| John Hickenlooper, the Also Ran |
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7 | 0.57% |
| Total: | 1229 votes | ||
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Gripweed posted:She called TPP "the gold standard" in her book, but then had that line removed from later editions during the primary when it was clear her support for it was going to be a problem Yeah, that's what I'm getting at with the 'nominally' qualifier. Sorry for being unclear!
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Jul 25, 2019 16:35
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mormonpartyboat posted:the best example d&d scholars could come up with to justify saying "nobody could have predicted the things trump is doing" was that a nazi pisshog president and his christofascist horse fucker vp, riding a wave of gamergate grifters into the white house, might not be an ideal trailblazer for trans rights That's not my argument, but good job reading. Being bad, and knowing the exact specifics of how someone will be bad, are two different things. We knew Trump was going to be a racist, kleptocratic, fash poo poo... not sure we knew how exactly that would play out in every sphere of politics (again, his foreign policy has been a combination of idiot belligerency and exceptional cowardice). Again, I'm agreeing with the opinion that everyone should have known that he was going to be as bad as he's turned out to be... but not that we could have figured out every twist and turn in advance.
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Jul 25, 2019 16:47
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maybe drop this word from your vocabulary, poindexter
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Jul 25, 2019 16:52
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While this is definitely an interesting discussion, the context of the quote makes clear that this wasn't really what Biden was talking about :quote:Biden and his advisers are convinced that the general election will mostly be a referendum on Trump and his fitness for office. “This is really about character and values as opposed to issues and ideology,” says Mike Donilon, Biden’s chief strategist. He acknowledges that Hillary Clinton tried and failed to make Trump’s suitability the pivotal question of the 2016 election. The difference this time, he says, is that Trump is now president and has demonstrated his inadequacy. Biden made a similar point. “Even when he was running,” Biden told me, “I don’t think anybody thought he would be as bad as he is.” In other words, when Biden says "I don’t think anybody thought he would be as bad as he is", he's not even talking about Trump's policies or positions. He's talking about Trump's personal behavior and mannerisms, his disrespect for bipartisan political norms like "say the racist part quietly and use euphemisms". He's saying that Trump isn't personally suitable to be the president, not because his policies are bad but because he himself is not a proper politician. When he says that "nobody thought" that Trump would be this bad, he's talking from the liberal bubble that thought crazy media-hating politician-insulting racism-spewing demagogue Trump was all just a campaign persona and that he would revert to being a normal GOP president just like Bush once he took office. That's the kind of "bad" Biden is thinking about.
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Jul 25, 2019 17:16
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Honestly Trump is up to some evil crap I could never have imagined. And I set the bar pretty low.
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Jul 25, 2019 17:18
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Oh thanks Biden, were you asleep during the 2016 election when the party tried to make Trump’s unfitness for office the main point and lost?
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Jul 25, 2019 17:23
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Eschenique posted:Honestly Trump is up to some evil crap I could never have imagined. And I set the bar pretty low.
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Jul 25, 2019 17:24
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twodot posted:What's an example? Because as best as I can tell Biden is saying he didn't realize Trump is such a dick that people would pretend not to speak English to avoid him, which was entirely predictable. The trans thing for one. Trump probably didn't even know what a trans person is. Ordering the justice department to investigate Hillary Clinton. Yeah I know "gently caress Clinton" but him trying to shift the US government to hunt his political opponents for revenge. I thought "lock her up" was just rhetoric but he did all in his power to try and make it happen.
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Jul 25, 2019 17:39
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Eschenique posted:The trans thing for one. Trump probably didn't even know what a trans person is. quote:Ordering the justice department to investigate Hillary Clinton. Yeah I know "gently caress Clinton" but him trying to shift the US government to hunt his political opponents for revenge. I thought "lock her up" was just rhetoric but he did all in his power to try and make it happen. twodot fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 17:46
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twodot posted:Ok that ignoring the fact that Mike Pence is a person that exists, you don't think Trump heard about the bathroom ban stuff in 2015? Anti-trans is an extremely normal Republican position. What can I say. I'm an optimist. I want to believe the best of people.
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Jul 25, 2019 17:50
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https://twitter.com/beyerstein/status/1154399271002759169?s=20
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Jul 25, 2019 17:50
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FlamingLiberal posted:Oh thanks Biden, were you asleep during the 2016 election when the party tried to make Trump’s unfitness for office the main point and lost? Personally, I think Biden is much better equipped to make that case. Affected or not, his folksy Scrantonism lets him actually connect with swing state voters who went for Obama and then Trump. That track failed in 2016 because of the candidate, imo.
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Jul 25, 2019 17:59
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lindsay beyerstein is great, long been a fan
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Jul 25, 2019 18:00
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Personally, I think Biden is much better equipped to make that case. Affected or not, his folksy Scrantonism lets him actually connect with swing state voters who went for Obama and then Trump. That track failed in 2016 because of the candidate, imo. His folksy Scrantonism doesn't exist. Biden is a very uncharismatic speaker, and he's not very good at appearing empathetic
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Jul 25, 2019 18:01
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Personally, I think Biden is much better equipped to make that case. Affected or not, his folksy Scrantonism lets him actually connect with swing state voters who went for Obama and then Trump. That track failed in 2016 because of the candidate, imo. Voters went from Obama to Trump for a variety of reasons. Pretty sure one of those reasons wasn't the "folksy Scrantonism" of Trump.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:12
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Flopsy posted:Do you genuinely think independents are going to turn out for somebody who openly identifies as a socialist which republicans are successfully using as a national boogieman? Like there's an incredible amount of purity wank in this thread and it's so extreme I can't tell what real and what's parody here. To return to this even though by all appearances Flopsy has moonwalked out the thread, there is no candidate the Democrats could run, or indeed even exist, that the GOP won't immediately and constantly scream is the most socialest socialist since Joseph Stalin.* The proper thing to do, and which Bernie is almost uniquely suited to do, is to blaze ahead embracing the idea that socialist policy is good and trumpet how it will make life better for people, without the cringing apology, servile bootlicking, or desperate handwaving Dems always loving try to do to make the imagined stink come off and get those magical moderate Republicans who are real and exist come over to their side. Gripweed posted:His folksy Scrantonism doesn't exist. Biden is a very uncharismatic speaker, and he's not very good at appearing empathetic His attempts so to do more often come off as condescending. *Rather than kick off the nth iteration of "was Stalin actually a true socialist," just imagine I cited some other historical leader of a communist nation here if that's put a bug up your rear end.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:14
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Personally, I think Biden is much better equipped to make that case. Affected or not, his folksy Scrantonism lets him actually connect with swing state voters who went for Obama and then Trump. That track failed in 2016 because of the candidate, imo. yeah but you're a loving nazi trumpist so
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Jul 25, 2019 18:23
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It's true, the mind is powerful, and love as a mindset can help with physical and emotional healing. Nice post of just a tweet without comment that you'd get probation for without being a thread pig cop though! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 25, 2019 18:27
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Eschenique posted:What can I say. I'm an optimist. I want to believe the best of people. crazy cloud posted:we are literally all going to die because neolibs can't stop jacking themselves into a frenzy long enough to acknowledge that they are wrong, they have always been wrong, the results they have gotten have paved the way for fascist ethnic cleansing and mass sexual abuse and murder, and the best thing you can say for it is, "we didn't mean for it to end up like this, we're sorry"
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Jul 25, 2019 18:28
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Gripweed posted:His folksy Scrantonism doesn't exist. Biden is a very uncharismatic speaker, and he's not very good at appearing empathetic This stump speech draws a pretty stark line between their speaking styles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHLSh_TC5Oo Or just watch from 30:00-35:00 for an example of what I mean.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:30
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Personally, I think Biden is much better equipped to make that case. Affected or not, his folksy Scrantonism lets him actually connect with swing state voters who went for Obama and then Trump. That track failed in 2016 because of the candidate, imo. Pembroke Fuse posted:Voters went from Obama to Trump for a variety of reasons. Pretty sure one of those reasons wasn't the "folksy Scrantonism" of Trump. "Swing voters" who went Obama-Trump are also irrelevant. There are far more people who voted in 2008 and 2012 who either stayed home or were blocked from voting in 2016 than there were who switched from Obama to Trump.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:35
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Eschenique posted:What can I say. I'm an optimist. I want to believe the best of people. The best of republicans probably looks a lot like George W Bush, honestly. Wanting to believe the best in people to the point of not seeing what Trump was going to be is more akin to delusion, than hope. crazy cloud posted:It's true, the mind is powerful, and love as a mindset can help with physical and emotional healing. ... Pardon? We're talking about AIDS here, man. Feeling love isn't gonna do a god drat thing. SKULL.GIF posted:"Swing voters" who went Obama-Trump are also irrelevant. There are far more people who voted in 2008 and 2012 who either stayed home or were blocked from voting in 2016 than there were who switched from Obama to Trump. Wish there was a drat thing to do about that second bit. Republicans aren't even hiding their suppression shenanigans anymore. Chilichimp fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 18:42
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SKULL.GIF posted:"Swing voters" who went Obama-Trump are also irrelevant. There are far more people who voted in 2008 and 2012 who either stayed home or were blocked from voting in 2016 than there were who switched from Obama to Trump. the olds are also dying and newer voters are coming into the fray, people forget how time works since we live in a highly anachronistic era where humans live longer, nostalgic popular culture is cyclical and the constant avalanche of information on a day to day basis in the information age that the brain can't stop to parse the relevant time stamps of what had happened to keep up. mormonpartyboat posted:maybe drop this word from your vocabulary, poindexter Many people are saying.... No, these neoliberals kept peddling Hillary Clinton in their smug bubble and had everyone convinced to take their vote for granted and were stunned when she lost since she offered no concrete change, constantly changing positions and cozying it up with big banks and the elite and the patronizing pokemon go to the polls and 3 emojis or less rollouts to minimize and gamify real issues people were struggling with. They were stunned. Absolutely stunned that she lost and now are trying to pretend that it didn't happen and it was a fluke. It was not. In a way it was good that she lost because it signifies a death knell of that kind of politics that was built upon in the last 40-50 years, its now approaching half a loving century of this kind of rote, path of least resistance "change is too hard" politics and people aren't buying it anymore especially when at a time and place where technology has taken off so fast, and that we have the most wealth and resources in the history of ever and somehow it is inadequate and inequal for all. Change is happening rapidly everywhere. Your politics are no longer relevant or timely enough to address and keep up with the fast paced world now. Of course people are going to keep repeating those points over and over, that's how insane it is. Something needs to be done, radically. Because something already is being done, radically on the right wing.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:48
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Chilichimp posted:
It absolutely is, and the western mindset of the body as a machine that will just function properly if you reset the gears and levers and grease everything up again is shortsighted, inhumane, and plain stupid and contrary to reality. Physical wellness depends on mental and emotional wellness, and people recently diagnosed with a terminal illness need therapy, counseling, and anahata meditation just as much as they need a trademarked prescription pill.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:49
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SKULL.GIF posted:"Swing voters" who went Obama-Trump are also irrelevant. There are far more people who voted in 2008 and 2012 who either stayed home or were blocked from voting in 2016 than there were who switched from Obama to Trump. Per this article more Obama voters went Trump than didn't vote.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:50
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Per this article more Obama voters went Trump than didn't vote. Nice editorial in the failing sad NYT on a data set that's definitely concrete and quantifiable and definitely not at all just made up to justify bad opinions ex post facto
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Jul 25, 2019 18:51
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crazy cloud posted:It absolutely is, and the western mindset of the body as a machine that will just function properly if you reset the gears and levers and grease everything up again is shortsighted, inhumane, and plain stupid and contrary to reality. Physical wellness depends on mental and emotional wellness, and people recently diagnosed with a terminal illness need therapy, counseling, and anahata meditation just as much as they need a trademarked prescription pill. People with AIDS need antiretroviral therapy, and the money to pay for it.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:56
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Chilichimp posted:People with AIDS need antiretroviral therapy, and the money to pay for it. Actually the company making the antiretroviral therapy needs to be nationalized and the patient treated for free and offered a holistic set of healing modalities including therapy, counseling, and meditation hth
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Jul 25, 2019 18:58
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crazy cloud posted:It absolutely is, and the western mindset of the body as a machine that will just function properly if you reset the gears and levers and grease everything up again is shortsighted, inhumane, and plain stupid and contrary to reality. Physical wellness depends on mental and emotional wellness, and people recently diagnosed with a terminal illness need therapy, counseling, and anahata meditation just as much as they need a trademarked prescription pill. I must once again admonish the poster, and remind him that the arch reactionary and peddler of superstition "mother theresa" also told many severely ill members of the Indian working class who came to her seeking help that they should love their pain and what god gave them. Yet those words hardly seem to have cured many diseases. Marianne Williamson is a self-proclaimed faith healer in the same vein promoting superstition, reactionary, unscientific, unmarxist and unmaterialistic ideas for her own capitalistic profits. I would hope that the poster would examine and reflect on his errors in supporting her in this regard.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:58
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crazy cloud posted:It absolutely is, and the western mindset of the body as a machine that will just function properly if you reset the gears and levers and grease everything up again is shortsighted, inhumane, and plain stupid and contrary to reality. Physical wellness depends on mental and emotional wellness, and people recently diagnosed with a terminal illness need therapy, counseling, and anahata meditation just as much as they need a trademarked prescription pill. Jesus Christ
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Jul 25, 2019 18:59
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Per this article more Obama voters went Trump than didn't vote. 4.4 + 2.3 > 6.0. Doesn't account for voter suppression, also doesn't account for 2008 voters (Obama had far higher turnout in '08 than he did in '12, before it was revealed he was a neoliberal with no intention of fulfilling his campaign promises) like myself -- I voted for Obama in '08 but third party in '12 (and Hillary in '16, for the record).
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Jul 25, 2019 19:00
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Typo posted:I must once again admonish the poster, and remind him that the arch reactionary and peddler of superstition "mother theresa" also told many severely ill members of the Indian working class who came to her seeking help that they should love their pain and what god gave them. Yet those words hardly seem to have cured many diseases. Marianne Williamson is a self-proclaimed faith healer in the same vein promoting superstition, reactionary, unscientific, unmarxist and unmaterialistic ideas for her own capitalistic profits. I would hope that the poster would examine and reflect on his errors in supporting her in this regard. marianne isn't mother theresa and if i wanted reheated bullshit penn gillette rear end libertarian pablum I'd read 2005 D&D instead of 2019 D&D but thank you for the retro nostalgia style post
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Jul 25, 2019 19:01
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Chilichimp posted:People with AIDS need antiretroviral therapy, and the money to pay for it. Nobody said they don't.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:01
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Lastgirl posted:No, these neoliberals kept peddling Hillary Clinton in their smug bubble and had everyone convinced to take their vote for granted and were stunned when she lost since she offered no concrete change, constantly changing positions and cozying it up with big banks and the elite and the patronizing pokemon go to the polls and 3 emojis or less rollouts to minimize and gamify real issues people were struggling with. They were stunned. Absolutely stunned that she lost and now are trying to pretend that it didn't happen and it was a fluke. It was not. there was definitely an attempt to like...frame trump's failings in the context of why he would be a bad democratic candidate. they saw him as a ~firebrand~, but in terms of someone like mccain. to say that trump was the id of america made flesh was to acknowledge that america is hosed up rather than temporarily misaligned, and to say that would have been to demand the populace either accept or try to fight against all the hosed up poo poo which is also exactly how the primary is being run today. every time biden says that some racist piece of poo poo was a good politician because they could sit down and discuss how best to keep america segregated, it's the exact same institutional energy as when hillary said trump is bad because america is already great they cannot conceive of a world with stakes larger than the dccc jobs program, and as such will always continue to fail those whose entire existence depends on an opposition party. there is no more historically accurate democratic ideal than that represented by kamala harris getting praise for attacking a segregationist by saying that busing should be a states' rights issue the party apparatus is a rotting manatee corpse floating under a tire swing and their voters are already airborne
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Jul 25, 2019 19:03
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crazy cloud posted:Actually the company making the antiretroviral therapy needs to be nationalized and the patient treated for free and offered a holistic set of healing modalities including therapy, counseling, and meditation hth Thanks for defining a method in which it could be paid for. Treatment choices are between doctor and patient and therapy/meditation are probably correct for many people, but they're not doing a god drat thing without medicine. And a gay person certainly doesn't have to LOVE the thing that's killing them, REGARDLESS. Colonel Taint posted:Nobody said they don't. Learn to love other posters, it'll allow you to be your best forum using self.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:04
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crazy cloud posted:marianne isn't mother theresa and if i wanted reheated bullshit penn gillette rear end libertarian pablum I'd read 2005 D&D instead of 2019 D&D but thank you for the retro nostalgia style post similarly, I would hope that the poster's positions on the matter of medicine and AIDS is closer to materialistic science of 2019 than spiritual superstition of 1976 or whichever year Marianne last gave her "faith healing" speech on AIDS, no doubt for a profit, before an audience who is probably no longer with us.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:04
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Chilichimp posted:Thanks for defining a method in which it could be paid for. Treatment choices are between doctor and patient and therapy/meditation are probably correct for many people, but they're not doing a god drat thing without medicine. The medicine's not doing a thing without love, either. The person doesn't have to love the thing that's killing them, no. Only if they want to suffer less, which, oh yeah, is the whole point of a doctor, therapist, or spiritual advocate
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Jul 25, 2019 19:08
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Typo posted:similarly, I would hope that the poster's positions on the matter of medicine and AIDS is closer to materialistic science of 2019 than spiritual superstition of 1976 or whichever year Marianne last gave her "faith healing" speech on AIDS, no doubt for a profit, before an audience who is probably no longer with us. Your language reveals your bias. Magick is not superstition, and your liberal sneering tone about it is just reheated Dick Dorkins materialisy nonsense hth
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Jul 25, 2019 19:09
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Colonel Taint posted:Nobody said they don't. lots of people believe in politics as aesthetic and as such can only actualize dialogue that fits within a well rehearsed us vs them framework so they can reheat and serve old takes they heard on a podcast years ago anything that doesn't fit is to be feared and distrusted
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Jul 25, 2019 19:11
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mormonpartyboat posted:there was definitely an attempt to like...frame trump's failings in the context of why he would be a bad democratic candidate. they saw him as a ~firebrand~, but in terms of someone like mccain. to say that trump was the id of america made flesh was to acknowledge that america is hosed up rather than temporarily misaligned, and to say that would have been to demand the populace either accept or try to fight against all the hosed up poo poo here's the hosed up part. Trump's actually a neoliberal, just a very disgruntled one because they didn't kiss his rear end enough and take him seriously so now he's pandering to fascists to spite them. Labels are very important to dweebs so they can have a semblance of normalcy and have a handrail to hold onto as they descend into the abyss of politics, but to the wealthy elites, labels are just convenient to wield as a tool and don't matter at all.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:13
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