|
420 Gank Mid posted:the Trostkyist -> Neocon pipeline serious but probably off topic question: why does this happen?
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 03:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 01:00 |
|
|
I think more trot -> neocon orgs should
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 03:28
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:serious but probably off topic question: why does this happen? money
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 03:32
|
|
|
Autism Sneaks posted:I think more trot -> neocon orgs should I thought this was all of them?
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 03:40
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:they’re still a sex cult that deifies Maryam. Oh absolutely, I was just pointing out how becoming a Sex Cult is not actually a default part of the trot-neocon pipeline
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 03:40
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:serious but probably off topic question: why does this happen? Trotskyist: "Invading other countries to install socialism by force is good and necessary" Neocon: "Invading other countries to install the free market by force is good and necessary" Mostly its just people that have massive war-boners and will use any socially convenient camouflage to hide it https://twitter.com/VoxPVoxD/status/1134506846809677824
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 03:43
|
|
|
trots and prayers for iran
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 03:49
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:serious but probably off topic question: why does this happen? when you're defined by opposition to the ussr you take the side of any force opposing it, which inevitably puts you in bed with the us
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 03:59
|
|
|
420 Gank Mid posted:https://twitter.com/Seamus_Malek/status/1154778365460545538 moonies go all in on fellow cult Darkman Fanpage has issued a correction as of 04:03 on Jul 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 04:00
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's incredible that we're threatening sanctions against the most strategically important member of NATO because they want to buy Russian SAMs. makes sense as nato is just a grift to get member countries to buy American weaponry
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 04:05
|
|
|
hey, there was a time they were to be bullet/nuke sponges for the US too
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 04:11
|
|
|
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/260264824473124865/604881166482407434/qD4hZVyRDQr_GZcX.mp4
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 05:12
|
|
|
Tag yourself I'm the indomitable will
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 05:25
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:serious but probably off topic question: why does this happen? Trotskyism holds onto a fairly schematistic theory of how societies should evolve (the limit to the flex is that societies may simultaneously develop faster or slower on a predetermined axis) and a huge betrayed revolution obsession. This easily leads them to conceptualize liberal capitalism as the superior alternative to any system with obvious faults that doesn't neatly fit any conceptual stage in their schema, like the main U.S. trot to neocon pipeline theorized the whole Eastern Bloc as representing "bureaucratic collectivism" that was to be understood as a huge threat to the development of the world not entirely unlike fascism. Basically defense of an ideal liberal capitalism (that the U.S. happens to represent to most of them) is defense of a future socialism to them so long as no party exists that they would recognize as representatives of a living socialism. And when you're deep enough in the schematism (not all trots), you don't recognize that the USA doesn't actually sculpt its semicolonies in its own image, so its influence must necessarily represent an advance over the influence of Iran's clerical bloc. Of course money and position doesn't hurt, but people still need to produce explanations for themselves about why they represent truth and justice rather than base opportunism.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 08:31
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:serious but probably off topic question: why does this happen? To offer a slightly different take: this is less about Trots in general and more about the specific path of a generation of New York Jewish intellectuals who came of age in the 1930s during the Great Depression. The future neocons started out as adherents to Trotsky who became very well acquainted with debating and arguing against the Marxist-Leninistist and other tendencies. These debates left them with certain habits of mind and insights that persisted long after their politics changed - in particular, they actually hated the Soviet Union on a much deeper level than the superficial fear of regular conservatives, and perhaps even more importantly they were much better equipped to debate Marxists than the more traditional conservative intellectuals who were honestly too dumb, backward and slow witted to really respond in detail to a dialectical argument. Conservatism has generally always struggled to attract as much intellectual sympathy as leftism. Lionel Trilling, who was part of this generation, famously said in the 1950s that: quote:In the United States at this time Liberalism is not only the dominant but even the sole intellectual tradition. For it is the plain fact that nowadays there are no conservative or reactionary ideas in general circulation. This does not mean, of course, that there is no impulse to conservatism or to reaction. Such impulses are certainly very strong, perhaps even stronger than most of us know. But the conservative impulse and the reactionary impulse do not, with some isolated and some ecclesiastical exceptions, express themselves in ideas but only in action or in irritable mental gestures which seek to resemble ideas. The Neocons played a crucial intellectual role in justifying the mainstream turn against the New Deal and Great Society. They took a lot of older conservative arguments about how the welfare state destroyed private initiative, created dependency and wrecked families and put a more intellectual and academic gloss on those arguments. They refurbished conservative arguments and gave them some intellectual heft and were actually able to hold their own in arguments where the average conservative had very little to say. Their background arguing with the MLs in the 1930s basically gave them an ability to hold their own that previous conservatives had mostly lacked so they proved very useful to their new paymasters. It helped that this was all happening in the period when American corporate leaders were becoming way more self conscious about the need to push back against leftist ideas and perspectives. As for why the New York Intellectuals went from Trot to Neocon, its kind of an overdetermined phenomenon. Part of it is just the natural changes of attitude that come with age and a successful career, part of it is that if you were on the top in the 1950s and 60s then it might genuinely seem like capitalism was working pretty well compared to communism. Also, they really hated the New Left and int he more populist stirrings against Vietnam and the establishment they claimed to detect some of the same ugly undercurrents that lead to the third reich and holocaust. Not to mention the fact that from the 1970s onward they were more and more concerned about the specific fate of Israel and turned to America as the best guardian of Israeli interests.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 17:40
|
|
|
McCarthyism was as defining a moment as any for the New York intellectuals, and coming out as part of an anti-communist left (that slowly shifted rightward over time) was a big deal -- Irving Kristol, father of always-wrong pundit Bill Kristol -- led the pack in the intellectual magazines at the time. It didn't hurt that vital centre liberalism was becoming the dominant mode of political thought in the United States, with both secular (Arthur Schlesinger Jr.) and sacred (Reinhold Niebuhr) champions. But there were other similar movements in other parts of the anglosphere and even in francophonie. Chris Hitchens and others coming out of Oxbridge shifted hard to the right, although Chris is now dead and his brother seems to be deeply entrenched in a kind of Christian conservatism. From what I understand, in France the postmodern turn against a fairly robust Marxist left in the 1950s and 1960s has led to a general ambivalence towards neoliberal capitalism, which is, to be fair, an extremely French way to go about it. There were a few Jewish New York intellectuals who didn't heel turn, like Irving Howe, as well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 18:32
|
|
|
The war the liberal interventionists forgot about seems to be escalating: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/libya-s-grim-civil-war-escalates-a-1277817.html
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 19:11
|
|
|
mila kunis posted:The war the liberal interventionists forgot about seems to be escalating:  edit lol this article quote:Libya now has two governments and has long since ceased to be a state. One in the east, in Tobruk, supports Haftar, a 75-year-old former colonel who once helped Gadhafi organize the coup that brought him to power. After falling out of favor with Gadhafi, Haftar lived in the United States for nearly two decades and is rumored to have occasionally worked for the CIA. After Gadhafi's fall, Haftar returned to Libya and since 2016 has given himself the title of field marshal. quote:It is the tragedy of a country that could be the richest on the continent, with the world's ninth largest oil deposits. But after Gadhafi bled the country dry for 42 years, he left behind a power vacuum that imploded after he was killed, and an ongoing struggle erupted among cities, tribes and their militias over power and access to wealth. i say swears online has issued a correction as of 20:21 on Jul 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 20:14
|
|
|
It's a nice gun, I'll give you that. But the engravings give you no tactical advantage whatsoever, unless you were planning to auction it off as a collectors item.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 20:19
|
|
|
golden guns are OHKs in any location
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 20:29
|
|
|
the stacks of cia cash are great, but being the crazy muthafuck with a golden gun is one helluva recruiting tool.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 20:30
|
|
|
Hafter spent those two decades living in Langley.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 22:50
|
|
|
is there some reason someone or some entity who claims to care about human rights has not just bought all the slaves for sale in libya and freed them to live in better environs? like surely bill gates or the clinton foundation or the u.n. or something could just buy them all and put them up on some land somewhere to live in peace *touches earpiece* im being told no one who claims to care about human rights and has money actually cares about human rights and its all grift welp
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 23:36
|
|
|
Addamere posted:
they bought all the kids
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 23:44
|
|
|
Stairmaster posted:they bought all the kids lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 23:45
|
|
|
Stairmaster posted:they bought all the kids Rough Chuckles
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 23:49
|
|
|
i say swears online posted:
RUMOR HAS IT
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2019 23:51
|
|
|
Addamere posted:is there some reason someone or some entity who claims to care about human rights has not just bought all the slaves for sale in libya and freed them to live in better environs? I would posit that the reason is because if someone consistently paid for slaves that would be a very good incentive for the slavers to find more to sell them Also idk if you've been keeping up with goings on in the world lately but you might want to do a quick Google on how easy it is to find places to put displaced peoples these days and the effects of doing so even without your "dump billions into the slave trade" idea
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 00:33
|
|
|
That was literally the premise of a Jack Posobiec tweet lmao
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 00:34
|
|
|
LastInLine posted:I would posit that the reason is because if someone consistently paid for slaves that would be a very good incentive for the slavers to find more to sell them its not hard to find places to put people, we just choose to not want to do that because we are monsters
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 00:37
|
|
|
There was another boat that left Libya with over a hundred migrants thought to have died last week too. https://twitter.com/IOM_Libya/status/1154383880075583488 https://twitter.com/IOM_Libya/status/1154447855098241024
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 00:38
|
|
|
yea see above if anyone who claimed to give a poo poo about human rights actually did we would not be getting those stories we would instead have the press constantly giving blowjobs to some billionaire who saves thousands and buys them homes but billionaires do not do that because they are evil
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 00:40
|
|
|
i’ll start the wiki
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 00:45
|
|
|
do you think billionaires got all their wealth from cutting migrants checks
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 00:47
|
|
|
Rated PG-34 posted:do you think never think only post
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 00:49
|
|
|
I think they pay them in cash
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 00:49
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/evanmcmurry/status/1155947641248686080?s=21 what a loving cucked nation
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 23:01
|
|
|
Taintrunner posted:It's a nice gun, I'll give you that. But the engravings give you no tactical advantage whatsoever, unless you were planning to auction it off as a collectors item. psh, it's a sweet DLC skin. and Darkman Fanpage posted:what a loving cucked nation
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 23:10
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2019 01:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 01:00 |
|
|
that filename 
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2019 01:58
|
|