|
"Games no fun now that they nerfed all the grief gimmicks" is a pretty wild take imo.
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 13:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 14:27 |
|
|
Soldier main spotted
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 14:00
|
|
|
If you die to a pyro it's your own fault for letting them get close. Axtinguisher was never a ranged weapon.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 14:09
|
|
|
I think the general consensus is that the Sandman nerf was good, because being rendered helpless by a projectile during the course of normal play sucks, but the Flying Guillotine nerf was bad and unnecessary. It's Valve's trademark balance over-correction at work: fixing a powerful combo by removing their synergy and nerfing both items into the ground in the same update when one or the other would have sufficed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 14:14
|
|
|
I played pretty much exclusively Combo Pyro with degreaser/reserve shooter for like 5 years and I can barely play the class now without becoming the "look what they've done to my boy" guy. Now I spend my days in cp orange x3 lowgrav allcrit servers
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 14:17
|
|
|
To be fair, the axtinguisher would probably be fine now that airblast isn't an infallible stun. Scout is a supremely powerful class that doesn't need a zero risk projectile combo for huge damage. People liked these things because they were a way to bypass engaging with the game's mechanics and get a cheap kill now and then. Game's fun if you give it a try.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 14:18
|
|
|
Galaxander posted:Scout is a supremely powerful class that doesn't need a zero risk projectile combo for huge damage. the risk is that you have exactly one shot, need to line yourself up at mid range for it(where most other classes are better than you), and the sandman reduces your already trash health even more and what you get out of it is a combo that does like 170 damage, AKA slightly less than two close range shots from the stock scattergun which would be much easier to hit and not have a 30 second cooldown if you missed, and not enough to kill Soldiers or Heavies or people getting overhealed. Guillotine Sandman was a BAD combo, it sucked a lot, but it was also really fun.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 14:25
|
|
|
Yeah, I barely bothered with it myself but on the receiving end I think maybe 2% of the sandman/guillotine attempts that came my way managed to land both hits. And most of those were surprise attacks that would have killed me just as dead with 2 shots of anything anything else. I don't know that I've ever had a situation where I felt "I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for that meddling sandman+guillotine combo  "
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 14:37
|
|
|
Galaxander posted:Scout is a supremely powerful class that doesn't need a zero risk projectile combo for huge damage. People liked these things because they were a way to bypass engaging with the game's mechanics and get a cheap kill now and then. Game's fun if you give it a try. You could make the exact same argument for the Direct Hit, why does the Soldier need a weapon that can one shot light classes? Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Jul 29, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 14:38
|
|
|
Broken Cog posted:You could make the exact same argument for the Direct Hit, why does the Soldier need a weapon that can one shot light classes? I would love to see the Direct Hit changed in a lot of ways, but for sure get rid of its ability to one-shot lights. Also lol at the idea of 170 damage just not being that much damage at all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 14:43
|
|
|
Galaxander posted:Also lol at the idea of 170 damage just not being that much damage at all. the point isn't that 170 damage is a small amount of damage, it's definitely not that, that will kill most people. The point is that 2 shots from the stock scattergun do about the same amount while being much easier to land, and missing one of the two shots doesn't make the other shot do like no damage, and you have 6 shots total instead of functionally 1, and reloading from 0 to 6 takes like 10% of the time recharging your guillotine takes, and it doesn't inherently reduce your maxhp to have it equipped, and it's faster to shoot twice with the scattergun than to sandman, switch to guillotine, and then guillotine. And yet no one is clamoring for the scattergun to get nerfed, nor should they be.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 14:54
|
|
|
The direct hit is the weapon that makes you feel like a god for one shot then an idiot for another 5 when you miss every thing.Splash damage is incredibly useful. It's balanced, the stock is much better.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 14:56
|
|
|
Jippa posted:The direct hit is the weapon that makes you feel like a god for one shot then an idiot for another 5 when you miss every thing.Splash damage is incredibly useful. It's balanced, the stock is much better. Hmm, sounds familiar
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 14:57
|
|
|
much like the prenerf loch n load the theory behind the direct hit being a risk reward tradeoff where you need more skill to land direct hits and receive more damage in exchange is broken by the fact that they also get huge projectile speed buffs which make it 10 times easier to actually land hits, meaning that they just become the Scoutfucker 9000 of course soldier is never allowed to be nerfed ever so unlike the loch n load this will remain true forever even though the direct hit was actually the far more egregious example EDIT: that said I actually don't want them to nerf the direct hit because at some point I got really good at airblasting direct hit rockets and the fact that one reflected direct hit plus one flare/shotgun shot will kill a soldier means that I get to own everyone who uses the stupid thing, which i like cock hero flux fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jul 29, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:00
|
|
|
Sandman and Guillotine didn't replace your main weapon like the Direct Hit did. You don't lose nearly as much if you're bad with them compared if you can't use the direct hit worth poo poo, especially since as a scout you can easily get the gently caress out even with 0 ammo in everything and low health
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:05
|
|
|
cock hero flux posted:the point isn't that 170 damage is a small amount of damage, it's definitely not that, that will kill most people. The point is that 2 shots from the stock scattergun do about the same amount while being much easier to land, and missing one of the two shots doesn't make the other shot do like no damage, and you have 6 shots total instead of functionally 1, and reloading from 0 to 6 takes like 10% of the time recharging your guillotine takes, and it doesn't inherently reduce your maxhp to have it equipped, and it's faster to shoot twice with the scattergun than to sandman, switch to guillotine, and then guillotine. And yet no one is clamoring for the scattergun to get nerfed, nor should they be. Barrelling into a group of enemies each of whom can 2-shot you is more risk than tossing out a couple projectiles at range and then scampering away. Jippa posted:The direct hit is the weapon that makes you feel like a god for one shot then an idiot for another 5 when you miss every thing.Splash damage is incredibly useful. It's balanced, the stock is much better. It's balanced, or arguably underpowered. It's just not cool be able to oneshot people with a turbo projectile, no matter how hard you're handicapping yourself to do it. That doesn't bring anything good to the game. They could just negate its ramp-up.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:06
|
|
|
Also while we're complaining about nerfs gently caress i miss the old Baby Face Blaster. I understand it was actual bullshit due to outrunning your hitbox but it really loving fun running all over the place with it and being a menace that could be anywhere at any time if there were stairs available. I wish you didn't nearly slow down as much just from being grazed with how it works now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:08
|
|
|
ChaseSP posted:Sandman and Guillotine didn't replace your main weapon like the Direct Hit did. You don't lose nearly as much if you're bad with them compared if you can't use the direct hit worth poo poo, especially since as a scout you can easily get the gently caress out even with 0 ammo in everything and low health you literally would be more effectively being kind of good with the scattergun and literally never switching weapons than you would be by being incredible with the sandman/guillotine and using the scattergun sometimes like the amount of time you spend switching to and using them as a combo would, 100%, be better spent with the scattergun out either shooting people or reloading.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:09
|
|
|
Galaxander posted:
This argument started about the Sandman Cleaver combo, so are you saying that using that combo isn't handicapping yourself? I never saw anyone running it seriously Edit: Eh honestly, just ignore everything I'm ranting about. I'm just a bit salty that Valve always seem to be nerfing anything fun for any class other than the Soldier Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jul 29, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:10
|
|
|
Galaxander posted:Barrelling into a group of enemies each of whom can 2-shot you is more risk than tossing out a couple projectiles at range and then scampering away.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:16
|
|
|
Broken Cog posted:This argument started about the Sandman Cleaver combo, so are you saying that using that combo isn't handicapping yourself? I never saw anyone running it seriously Ok, guessing you saw this by your edit, but I specifically say that handicapping yourself doesn't make it ok. cock hero flux posted:which I can guarantee you will never, ever happen just flinging them out at range while running away.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:16
|
|
|
Galaxander posted:Ok, guessing you saw this by your edit, but I specifically say that handicapping yourself doesn't make it ok. but like, it's not a one shot it's a two shot you may recognize this number of shots as being the same number required by almost every primary weapon in the game to kill things that aren't heavies
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:18
|
|
|
ChaseSP posted:Sandman and Guillotine didn't replace your main weapon like the Direct Hit did. You don't lose nearly as much if you're bad with them compared if you can't use the direct hit worth poo poo, especially since as a scout you can easily get the gently caress out even with 0 ammo in everything and low health One hit kill on the scout. One hit. You just had to hit him one single time with a direct hit or shoot his feet twice in the time it took him to stun you at mid-range, which also means getting stunned never ever happened at close quarters unless you were dumb enough to chase the scout once he disengaged from you. If you can't use the direct hit well enough to hit the scout once and he CAN use his sandman and cleaver well enough to hit you twice, you deserved to lose! That HP downside to the sandman is huge because dying is a 15 second stun-lock AND you lose all your positional advantages in a game where controlling territory = victory, I was basically going around making it easy for people to remove me from the game in exchange for making them unable to shoot, sometimes, accuracy and location permitting. Finally, honestly? I don't really care if people didn't like losing to the sandman. I don't like losing to lots of things! I don't like pyro jetpacks! I'm not fond of the way bonk atomic punch lets laggy scouts run up to me as sniper and force-a-nature 2 shot me and I don't like how the way Valve arranged packets to reach your computer from the server that disconnects head-boxes from head location! I don't like the iron bomber because it really doesn't have a downside! It's bullshit that Demoman can blind charge around corners with the Tide Turner now and when your team isn't Johnny on the spot about chasing after him he can shut down your spawn-area in such a way that it takes ten tries to really dislodge him. Did I mention that class gets to have more HP based on how many morons such as myself they managed to kill? But you know what? Removing basically any of that makes for a worse game imo. Removing sandman cleaver combo made for a worse game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:24
|
|
|
cock hero flux posted:but like, it's not a one shot Used by a scout taking no risk at range, striking projectile hitboxes with 3000 hu/s projectiles.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:28
|
|
|
Galaxander posted:Used by a scout taking no risk at range, striking projectile hitboxes with 3000 hu/s projectiles. Hahahaha
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:29
|
|
|
Galaxander posted:Used by a scout taking no risk at range, striking projectile hitboxes with 3000 hu/s projectiles. You still have to hit both those projectiles though, this is like people complaining about Ambassador spies always hitting headshots, there is an additional variable here
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:30
|
|
|
The cleaver is really good still, too. Heck, why not give the cleaver+wrap assassin combo a try? I did once and felt like I was cheating almost. Heck of a lot more damage than pistol spam could ever manage.Broken Cog posted:You still have to hit both those projectiles though, this is like people complaining about Ambassador spies always hitting headshots, there is an additional variable here So what?
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:36
|
|
|
Galaxander posted:Used by a scout taking no risk at range, striking projectile hitboxes with 3000 hu/s projectiles. the risk is that they will shoot back at you with their weapons which also kill you in 2 hits and are either hitscan or have splash damage, and don't require them to switch weapons, and have more than 1 shot in them also the projectiles don't go in a straight line which renders their speed less helpful than you might think.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:36
|
|
|
Broken Cog posted:You still have to hit both those projectiles though, this is like people complaining about Ambassador spies always hitting headshots, there is an additional variable here Galaxander posted:So what? So it's good that the player who worked hard and practiced more and hit two shots with different range requirements with different arcs of flight won over the player who presumably did not. This is the basis for a game-system that attempts to reward players for spending time perfecting their skills in the game. In other words, a good game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:42
|
|
|
reignofevil posted:So it's good that the player who worked hard and practiced more and hit two shots with different range requirements with different arcs of flight won over the player who presumably did not. it's more like the player who worked hard and practiced more and hit two shots with different range requirements with different arcs of flight mostly lost to the player who presumably did not, but it was really funny on the rare occasions it worked
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:44
|
|
|
Straight White Shark posted:it's more like the player who worked hard and practiced more and hit two shots with different range requirements with different arcs of flight mostly lost to the player who presumably did not, but it was really funny on the rare occasions it worked It's all about knowing which way to run. If you could get them to chase after you (note how the enemy is in full control of this tactical mistake and unless you are a scout yourself chasing a scout is entirely pointless) you could get your kill.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:46
|
|
|
reignofevil posted:So it's good that the player who worked hard and practiced more lmao cock hero flux posted:the risk is that they will shoot back at you with their weapons which also kill you in 2 hits and are either hitscan or have splash damage, and don't require them to switch weapons, and have more than 1 shot in them They won't do jack to a scout at 100 yards. I'm familiar with the way the projectiles arc. I've used this combo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:47
|
|
|
Galaxander posted:lmao if you're far enough away that it's actually difficult for a soldier to splash you with rockets as you line your shots up you're far enough away for the person you're aiming at to just move out of the way
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:48
|
|
|
I just don't know what to say. A player couldn't hit the scout with a direct hit with a loch and load with a charged bodyshot with a magic shield that lets you run through scouts with a flamethrower with a scattergun meat shot or an ambassador shot. They didn't practice enough. End of story.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:49
|
|
|
The scout meanwhile dodged 11 of your team-mates and two-shot you. Probably while any of your other team members could have killed him while he focused on you. Pretty clearly he knows the map well enough to dodge fights he can't win so that he has time to reach you, after all he has severely reduced health and instead of a ranged pistol with like 12 shots he gets two. And they don't work on sentries. He pretty clearly worked harder.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:53
|
|
|
reignofevil posted:It's all about knowing which way to run. If you could get them to chase after you (note how the enemy is in full control of this tactical mistake and unless you are a scout yourself chasing a scout is entirely pointless) you could get your kill. lol now I understand why some people manage to have so much trouble with something apparently harmless, thank you for explaining friend 
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:54
|
|
|
I always felt like the loch n load was worse to play against than the direct hit just because grenades don't have fall-off damage like rockets do. You don't get one-shot by the direct hit if you're not in the right range, whereas you could get one-shot by the loch n load at ANY range. That's how I remember it at least, it's been years since I used that weapon. It was also good for spamming into enemies clustered on a cart/point etc. because it had more splash than the direct hit. Also I'm still sad they got rid of the AOE jarate perk the sydney sleeper briefly had.  I get it was a bit much and probably not super fun to play against but the sydney sleeper isn't supposed to be fun to play against
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 15:57
|
|
|
At this point I'm 100% beating a dead horse but it's worth noting that quick fix ubers entirely negate both sandman stuns and air blast. That plus rocket-jumping medic cements it as the best medigun.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 16:08
|
|
|
Butt Detective posted:
Completely forgot about this. It was the only time I ever played sniper aside from messing around with Huntsman. Boy, that was fun and OP.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 17:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 14:27 |
|
|
Butt Detective posted:Also I'm still sad they got rid of the AOE jarate perk the sydney sleeper briefly had. I didn't even realize they had gotten rid of this, but looking now minicrits on headshot are really loving powerful. Fully charged headshots will 1-hit everyone but heavy at base health, plus covering them in jarate, plus it charges faster.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2019 17:24
|
|
