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Mulva posted:The Lodge of the Screaming Moon, dedicated to brutalizing those that prey on people through fear and terror. They have magic powers that make them immune to such, and that deny creatures the ability to gain power off the death they cause. In *any* way that death might empower them. They also specialize in visions and divination, which ties into their totem. Speaking of, if everything related to the idea of a large group of werewolves that want to completely horrify and torture folks in a way that makes other werewolves nervous isn't enough to get you uncomfortable, there is this: Their Lodge Totem is a Lune. But wait you say, aren't werewolves told to never ever make a Lune a totem because the tie between the pack and the totem will drive you insane? The Screaming Moon gifts from the OPP blog are also goddamn amazing in this context. Cahalith-only, but extremely applicable. They can inflict Lunacy on non-Werewolf supernaturals. They can inflict Lunacy on Beasts. They can also cause the Beast's power stat, Hunger(?), to do weird collapses and loop-de-loops with their 'force a second integrity or equivalent track drop if you drop once' power - which means Beasts using their powers against a Screaming Moon Cahalith are going to find themselves starving in no time. Yeah, I feel like this lodge and the Screaming Moon lunar symbolism in general is aimed like a knife at the heart of Beasts, basically by accident as a side matter to their larger concerns. e: and the capstone Screaming Moon gift lets them scream a Beast's soul off, which frankly is a perfect gently caress you response to the Beast power that makes souls fall off. Because the Screaming Moon one feels so much more like a power that can and should be in the game, because it follows after a cascade of powers and requires significant involvement in hunting the target, rather than just 'hey I spent my power stat, your soul falls off permanently, gently caress you.'
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Jul 30, 2019 05:38
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Night Horrors 2e, you've got your hosed-up Ghost Wolves in a couple different flavors (turns out, not having a tribal totem to hide behind leaves you open to Some poo poo), you've got your hosed-up Pure tribes, you've got your hosed-up Bale Hounds for pretty clear left hand path analogues, and you've got bonus Hosts for hosed-up "not really shapeshifters but also, definitely were human and are now semi-spirit semi-animal Swamp Thing 90s cartoon antagonists" fun. hell yeah, thank you also the screaming moon lodge sound big dicked as hell, the ideal Beast wreckers. It would be a fun campaign to have a mixed group of supernaturals who have all realised that it's not natural for them to like the Beasts, and that it must be some kind of supernatual compulsion. So they team up to kill the poo poo out of every Beast they find and try to research how to overcome the supernatural friendship brainwashing. they go into the primordial dream and the dark mother ends up dying on the way back to her home planet, poochie style.
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Jul 30, 2019 05:54
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juggalo baby coffin posted:hell yeah, thank you
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Jul 30, 2019 08:05
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juggalo baby coffin posted:Thinking about loving around and writing a gangrel bloodine who specifically hunt Beasts. maybe their progenitor was a Hero who got embraced before he could kill his target. they're immune to whatever bullshit compulsion aura beasts have to make other supernaturals like them, and they can digest beast blood. you don't try to pick out the pickles and wash them off to save them from a literal poo poo sandwich
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Jul 30, 2019 08:36
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Nessus posted:I mean, you could also make a campaign that's actually fun, it's not like Beast: the Whatevering cares if you kill it in your home game. it could be a fun campaign and an excuse to bring together characters from different gamelines
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Jul 30, 2019 08:38
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So for people who have played V5 I've got two questions: are there rules for having animals as ghouls, and can someone explain the difference between the Animalism powers Feral Whispers and Animal Dominion? Is it that Feral Whispers lets you speak with animals, but only command one animal at a time, where Animal Dominion lets you command large numbers of animals at once?
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Jul 30, 2019 17:45
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Zereth posted:the best way to deal with Beasts is to pretend they don't exist, or throw them out entirely and start over with the elevator pitch if "you're an ancient creature of legend like a dragon or hydra or kraken or something" So what? "The Ancient creatures that heroes and hunters like Absimiliard did not die out, they merely slept within the blood of man until it was time. Awakened by a realigning of plains that calls the beasts to rise, feed and evolve into the pinnacle of creation"? Crabtree fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jul 30, 2019 |
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Jul 30, 2019 19:24
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Crabtree posted:So what? "The Ancient creatures that heroes and hunters like Absimiliard did not die, they merely slept within the blood of man until it was time?" You're less human than a Demon is, but you really like Cheetos or something and have decided to live incognito in human society. Or just out of self-preservation.
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Jul 30, 2019 19:29
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So a bunch of mythological creatures got together and said "Humanity and its monsters are gonna loving kill us, let's just pretend to be them and hope no one notices"? Octodad, but replace an octopus with a Dragon or Nature God.
Crabtree fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jul 30, 2019 |
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Jul 30, 2019 20:00
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That was sort of what Beast originally was. And the idea that you are literally born a monster and were never really human presents something of an interesting moral quandary as to what extent can you blame literal embodied instinct for feeding, to the extent that that instinct is also pretending to be a person. This also had a compelling core gameplay loop where if you didn't properly manage your hunger you'd start turning those around you into Heroes, which was explicitly treated as a monstrous thing. You know, until they started rather deliberately comparing Beasts to LGBTQ groups and saying that they should be exempt from persecution because of it. And then turning Heroes into acceptable targets opposed to LGBTQ groups.
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Jul 30, 2019 20:06
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Metapod posted:holy gently caress v5 is good Ye...yeah? Is it?
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Jul 30, 2019 20:17
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Mendrian posted:Ye...yeah? Is it? I like it? I've been running a weekly game with it since mid April. First time being a GM in a WoD game and before that I was a DM back in like 2007. We've been ignoring the blood resonance stuff. But combat is nice and straightforward, we all like the hunger die system and the uncertainty it creates. And Predator Styles are a nice way to abstract hunting except when people gently caress up the rolls.
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Jul 30, 2019 20:26
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Zereth posted:My idea is more "You are literally a dragon and have never not been a dragon, you've just crammed yourself into a human-shaped disguise because you like not getting shot down by fighter jets" This is Bravo-1. Unidentified target has been neutralized. Over and out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OPW-RdzStA
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Jul 30, 2019 20:35
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The unfixable core problem with Beast is that it's a game where the protagonists are the anthropomorphized rationalizations of real life predators and abusers. You're not an ancient dragon or kraken. You're "She deserved it" in a human suit.
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Jul 30, 2019 20:43
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Kurieg posted:That was sort of what Beast originally was. And the idea that you are literally born a monster and were never really human presents something of an interesting moral quandary as to what extent can you blame literal embodied instinct for feeding, to the extent that that instinct is also pretending to be a person. This also had a compelling core gameplay loop where if you didn't properly manage your hunger you'd start turning those around you into Heroes, which was explicitly treated as a monstrous thing. I remember folks trying to spin it so a kid in a coma - who I believe was put there by a Beast - who was a Hero but also, you know, a villain.
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Jul 30, 2019 20:46
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Dawgstar posted:I remember folks trying to spin it so a kid in a coma - who I believe was put there by a Beast - who was a Hero but also, you know, a villain.
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Jul 30, 2019 20:48
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:IIRC that was also the one that they singled out between the first draft and release and changed to "but maybe she could become a Hunter you know if you wantit would be cool maybe That was in the same paragraph as the part suggesting that she was actually a Beast who had fought back at the last moment of her devouring and the way to "save" her is to finish the job.
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Jul 30, 2019 21:06
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Kurieg posted:That was in the same paragraph as the part suggesting that she was actually a Beast who had fought back at the last moment of her devouring and the way to "save" her is to finish the job.
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Jul 30, 2019 21:22
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The main fault with Beast's early(Read: Kickstarter) development was that Matt took "you can't have your literal monsters be an otherness metaphor" as a challenge. The main fault with Beast's later development was that Matt then decided that Beast was the perfect place to opine about how hard it is to be a rapist in today's socially conscious times.
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Jul 30, 2019 22:10
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Crabtree posted:So a bunch of mythological creatures got together and said "Humanity and its monsters are gonna loving kill us, let's just pretend to be them and hope no one notices"? Octodad, but replace an octopus with a Dragon or Nature God.  Kurieg posted:That was sort of what Beast originally was. Or a kraken or hydra or something. MonsieurChoc posted:This is Bravo-1. Unidentified target has been neutralized. Over and out.
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Jul 30, 2019 22:22
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Zereth posted:No I am suggesting you are a dragon that hatched out of a dragon egg and then, later, put on a human disguise of varying quality. You weren't born biologically a human or anything like that. When Beast was first spoiled you basically had a Cuckoo soul in your body as a kind of spiritual life support until your body was strong enough to support your actual soul. At which point your actual soul eats the fake. e: not that I'm defending beast at all, more the fact that very early in it's development there was a compelling idea that could have been turned into something good. Instead Matt was at the helm and saw his chance to tell the true story about how hard it is to be an Ally AND a Rapist. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jul 30, 2019 |
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Jul 30, 2019 22:33
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I'd kind of like Nu Beast to be mostly true neutral to neutral Evil with severe consequences in tone like "You've lived long enough as a human that you don't need to specifically eat people or do anything to harm them - BUUUT, living too comfortably causes a sort of soul rot to come in that can eventually lock you out of your true self (and its vast power) forever without some certain 'activities'. Of course, doing these sorts of things too much will cause the mask to crack and you will become an obvious target that likely neither your human nor beast friends/families/etc will save you if you go too far down the path of Truth." And I guess no matter what sort of creature you are, the biggest super natural that is likely gonna be your enemy no doubt is a mage, because you are nothing but a laundry list of powerful and rare ingredients, reagents, raw magic free of any sort of consequences from Paradox to utilize. Crabtree fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jul 30, 2019 |
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Jul 30, 2019 22:59
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Zereth posted:My idea is more "You are literally a dragon and have never not been a dragon, you've just crammed yourself into a human-shaped disguise because you like not getting shot down by fighter jets" So, the plot of Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:02
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A Renaissance Nerd posted:So for people who have played V5 I've got two questions: are there rules for having animals as ghouls, and can someone explain the difference between the Animalism powers Feral Whispers and Animal Dominion? V5 ghouling is just for mortal humans. Animalism lets you do the animal ghoul thing, a famulus. That's basically a familiar that doubles as an emergency snack. Feral whispers lets you talk to one critter or summon potentially a lot of them. Free on your famulus. You don't have any control over the creatures you summon though. Animal Dominion gives you that control. So you would use Whispers to get a pack of wolves and Dominion to order them around. - I haven't played much V5, but I've been sitting in on a big discord game with like 30+ active players. That's been interesting, been able to see the system at work. There's also some really cool bots for v5 that let you learn the dice system. They handle Willpower expenditure as a reaction to rolls, too. Here's an example of a dice roll that resulted in a messy critical. Spent a point of willpower to reroll successes (to avoid the messy crit), and it ends up as a bestial failure instead. 
ritorix fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Jul 30, 2019 |
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Jul 30, 2019 23:07
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Kurieg posted:When Beast was first spoiled you basically had a Cuckoo soul in your body as a kind of spiritual life support until your body was strong enough to support your actual soul. At which point your actual soul eats the fake.  Except behind the mask is a literal dragon. Slimnoid posted:So, the plot of Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. 
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Jul 30, 2019 23:26
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Slimnoid posted:So, the plot of Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. I feel like a replacement for Beast should try and have less child molestation content.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:37
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ritorix posted:V5 ghouling is just for mortal humans. Animalism lets you do the animal ghoul thing, a famulus. That's basically a familiar that doubles as an emergency snack. I didn't see any rules about animals in the blood bonding section, but the famulus introduction mentions: "When Blood Bonding an animal, the vampire can make it a famulus, forming a mental link with it and facilitating the use of other Animalism powers." Which would seem to imply that you can blood bond animals without making them a famulus? ritorix posted:Feral whispers lets you talk to one critter or summon potentially a lot of them. Free on your famulus. You don't have any control over the creatures you summon though. Animal Dominion gives you that control. So you would use Whispers to get a pack of wolves and Dominion to order them around. Whispers mentions: "Persuading an animal to perform a service requires a Manipulation + Animalism roll; the Difficulty depends on the task required. Having a bird keep an eye out for anyone entering the park at night is Difficulty 3, while ordering any animal to defend a place with their lives is Difficulty 6." So you can order an animal to do things up to fighting to the death for you. But then Animal Dominion says: "Chose a type of animal and make a Charisma + Animalism roll with a Difficulty depending on the nature of the animals and the order given. Getting a flock of crows to disperse and look for a specific individual (given some means of identifying their target) is relatively easy (Difficulty 3), but getting a pack of dogs to give their lives in a suicidal attack on another vampire is more of a challenge (Difficulty 5)" So both of them mention commanding animals, but I guess the difference is between Whispers doing it one at a time, whereas Dominion lets you do it en masse? For as much as I like V5, the core book has some serious issues with unclear descriptions and layout of topics.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:45
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A Renaissance Nerd posted:I didn't see any rules about animals in the blood bonding section, but the famulus introduction mentions: You can ghoul an animal, and it gains the same basic conceits as a Ghoul (one dot of your highest Discipline and a power you have, etc.) A famulus is just a ghoul plus. A Renaissance Nerd posted:So both of them mention commanding animals, but I guess the difference is between Whispers doing it one at a time, whereas Dominion lets you do it en masse? LIterally yes, in the descriptive text. From pg. 247, the first paragraph of Animal Dominion's descriptive text. The power the vampire holds over beasts is now great enough to command flocks and packs as if they were extensions of their own body MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jul 31, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 00:31
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TheNamedSavior posted:if you like whitewashing and unironic fu manchu rip offs in the 21st century, sure. V5 chicago by night is a good book m8
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Jul 31, 2019 00:44
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ZearothK posted:Vampires don't need to breathe, so they can just fill themselves with water so their air doesn't turn them into a popping baloon. I dont think you understand how oceanic water pressure works??? I'm laughing at unironic puffy deepsea vampire looking like lovely blobfish Oberst fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jul 31, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 00:45
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Mendrian posted:Ye...yeah? Is it? Its better than V20 and requiem for sure
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Jul 31, 2019 00:55
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Oberst posted:Its better than V20 and requiem for sure Lol no.
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Jul 31, 2019 02:01
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Oberst posted:Its better than V20 and requiem for sure Requiem is really really good and I don't think they've ever come that close to enforcing the idea that RPGs should be about the players and their actions before or since gently caress metaplot
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Jul 31, 2019 02:17
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Oberst posted:I dont think you understand how oceanic water pressure works??? Laughing with delight, I hope. Respect the deep underlords.
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Jul 31, 2019 03:04
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Oberst posted:Its better than V20 and requiem for sure Okay lol now I know I'm being trolled, gj.
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Jul 31, 2019 03:41
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v5 is really good and the new chicago book owns
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Jul 31, 2019 03:42
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I mean it's cool, like what you like and welcome to the thread. I'm just curious where all these people are coming from who are hepped up on v5 when the thread has basically been, at best, "couple cool ideas, mixed execution" about the whole thing. Did something expose a bunch of new people to V5?
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Jul 31, 2019 03:54
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I also get extremely confused about people having different opinions
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Jul 31, 2019 03:55
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Mendrian posted:I mean it's cool, like what you like and welcome to the thread. I'm just curious where all these people are coming from who are hepped up on v5 when the thread has basically been, at best, "couple cool ideas, mixed execution" about the whole thing. Did something expose a bunch of new people to V5? LA By Night happened.
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Jul 31, 2019 03:59
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Sour Diesel posted:I also get extremely confused about people having different opinions I've been reading long screeds about why it's bad that I largely agreed with after my own reading. There's nothing wrong or ~confusing~ about that but I just saw a whole page of driveby posts about how much V5 owns and I mean, I'd like to know why people feel that way. They don't have to explain themselves to me but I certainly am curious what it is they like. Edit: Renaissance Nerd for instance gave some things they liked. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jul 31, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 04:04
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