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So I guess this is a good time to practice slight of hand or whatever now. Either to get good at spotting it or just rack up the free wins due to no judges being around to catch you cheating (everyone will do this one btw). Honestly theres more reasons to cancel paper tournaments than to have them. Pretty much the only thing in favor of them is nostalgia. People can still have conventions about games that are entirely online and I think that's what will take the place of the biggest tournaments.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:19
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The mid-level paper events were a huge headache and mostly resulted in an extermely diffuse prize pool that got almost no benefit for anyone except grinders so i think WOTC would prefer it just be SCG/CFB doing the mid-level stuff so WOTC can run big, showy events and small-scale marketing-friendly FNM/prerelease stuff. The big pool of L1 judges don't really fit in that ecosystem and that's probably why they're getting the axe.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:20
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quote:Renewal cost of a license to practice law is $430 in the State of California, comparable to your L3 certification at $400. That license allows an attorney to continue practicing law, which allows for a salary that will typically provide around $50,000 (or much more depending on experience) and allows for the many privileges of being a lawyer and creatively interpreting or possibly influencing public policy. quote:JA: This is an interesting way of framing this idea in a way that honestly we had not considered before reading it here.  oh my god this just keeps getting better.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:21
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axeil posted:
you just loving know that's the sound of the brainworms going "WOW this makes our judges just as legitimate as EMTs, lawyers and engineers!!"
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Jul 30, 2019 23:24
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I said like 2 weeks ago that it seemed like paper Magic was on it's way out and eas mocked for it.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:25
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Oh, hah, it wasn't just some SCG rando, it was their general manager. This is sure something alright. 
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Jul 30, 2019 23:25
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Wasn't the entire value of the judge foils that A) they were good cards and B) the supply was quite limited? This seems to mitigate B entirely
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Jul 30, 2019 23:27
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:I said like 2 weeks ago that it seemed like paper Magic was on it's way out and eas mocked for it. WotC/Hasbro continuously loving up competitive Magic doesn't equal phasing out paper Magic.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:28
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AceClown posted:you just loving know that's the sound of the brainworms going "WOW this makes our judges just as legitimate as EMTs, lawyers and engineers!!" One of the replies is gold too. quote:How can that possibly be? They absolutely did not research other accrediting organizations because the entire point of this is to put  into WoTC's pockets while killing off the competitive paper magic scene.quote:Question: Are you seriously, with a straight face, claiming that Judge Academy has more administrative costs than the organization which certifies and staffs EMTs? If you don't even exist as a corporate entity yet and you already are faced with such administrative bloat, I shudder to think what you'll look like in a year or two or five. 
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Jul 30, 2019 23:28
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Kyrosiris posted:Oh, hah, it wasn't just some SCG rando, it was their general manager. lol, wonder if there's anything stopping people just registering randos from the phonebook or just all your family and friends as judges to get the foils? (assuming the foils are worth more than the fees)
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Jul 30, 2019 23:30
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Elyv posted:IANAL, but the one thing that isn't clear to me is that I don't understand why this would protect them from past labor violations. agreeing they’re now employees and paying them would be a bad fact when it came to any future lawsuits. no idea how completely winning the previous lawsuits foreclosed new ones though.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:31
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so what happens when this totally-not-affiliated-with-WotC judge company gets sued for wage theft? Even a smattering of lawsuits seems more than sufficient to completely drain any coffers they have.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:35
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AceClown posted:lol, wonder if there's anything stopping people just registering randos from the phonebook or just all your family and friends as judges to get the foils? (assuming the foils are worth more than the fees) Considering you pay $100 for a set of 8 foils, no matter what level you're at, I'd say they cost exactly $12.50 each to buy directly from the manufacturer. And if the resale price is too high, hell, just go be a judge and get your own at wholesale rates! Making a bunch of fake L1 accounts seems a lot easier than getting to L3.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:35
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AceClown posted:lol, wonder if there's anything stopping people just registering randos from the phonebook or just all your family and friends as judges to get the foils? (assuming the foils are worth more than the fees) To get certified as an L1, you need an L2 to put you forward for it, after an in-person interview. Theroetically, if you get an L2 to start doing fraudulent certifications, that L2 will get decertified themselves, but who knows, since that would be directly profiting this new company.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:38
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A big flaming stink posted:so what happens when this totally-not-affiliated-with-WotC judge company gets sued for wage theft? Even a smattering of lawsuits seems more than sufficient to completely drain any coffers they have. Ah, but you see, they do not provide employment services - that is on you, the
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Jul 30, 2019 23:38
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axeil posted:WoTC was staring down the very unpleasant prospect of having to pay for possibly decades of unpaid wages to their judges. Rather than just...paying them they came up with this system. It also has the added benefit of effectively being a massive cut to the existing number of judges out there. Pretty soon you'll see events either cancelled ("Sorry, we couldn't get enough judges to do this tournament") or the quality of play will drop well below what you get on Arena because the judging will be inadequate. This whole time they're making money from the remnant of old judges that decide to pay for the privilege of working for WoTC. Seems insane to risk the future of a game that's been successful in paper for 26 years by pushing those players towards a program that's been successful for like a year. I still have trouble justifying playing Arena at all since mtgo has real drafts and a secondary market so I'm not stuck with these rotating standard cards. Also has the formats I'm actually interested in. I'd think it'd be ideal to want both arena and paper to be successful since there's a massive chunk of the playerbase that has no interest in Arena or only uses Arena to get additional testing for paper events.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:40
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freeman posted:Seems insane to risk the future of a game that's been successful in paper for 26 years by pushing those players towards a program that's been successful for like a year. I still have trouble justifying playing Arena at all since mtgo has real drafts and a secondary market so I'm not stuck with these rotating standard cards. Also has the formats I'm actually interested in. I'd think it'd be ideal to want both arena and paper to be successful since there's a massive chunk of the playerbase that has no interest in Arena or only uses Arena to get additional testing for paper events. I don't think wotc is trying to get rid of paper, but more to try to get the OP for paper into a more promotional mode, so it's cutting out the mid-tier events that don't really have a lot of purpose in that regard.
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Jul 30, 2019 23:44
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A big flaming stink posted:so what happens when this totally-not-affiliated-with-WotC judge company gets sued for wage theft? Even a smattering of lawsuits seems more than sufficient to completely drain any coffers they have. Nothing to Wizards or Hasbro which seems to be the whole point?
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Jul 30, 2019 23:57
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Panzeh posted:I don't think wotc is trying to get rid of paper, but more to try to get the OP for paper into a more promotional mode, so it's cutting out the mid-tier events that don't really have a lot of purpose in that regard. That's an interesting situation; if your only options were to play FNM (with rules advisors) or to try and qualify online for the Mythic Championships, does the entire GP circuit just go away at that point? And if it does, that basically permanently kills off Modern and Legacy doesn't it? It's Standard, Limited, and all-cards-on-Arena basically for good.
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Jul 31, 2019 00:01
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:That's an interesting situation; if your only options were to play FNM (with rules advisors) or to try and qualify online for the Mythic Championships, does the entire GP circuit just go away at that point? And if it does, that basically permanently kills off Modern and Legacy doesn't it? It's Standard, Limited, and all-cards-on-Arena basically for good. I think WOTC wants them to survive just because the big secondary market is part of the history and marketing of the game, but they don't want to pony up to run a huge GP circuit for people to grind modern/legacy when SCG and other third parties will do it.
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Jul 31, 2019 00:08
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WotC doesn't want to kill of Modern because Hasbro specifically called out Modern Horizons as one of the growth driving products during their earnings report. I have literally no idea what their goal actually is though.
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Jul 31, 2019 00:11
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I'm following along but still don't quite understand something; what exactly was the issue and outcome of the previous lawsuit? Why are they "facing" paying judges retroactively, apparently, based on this lawsuit, but not actually? It looks like there were two suits, one of which (by one guy) was dismissed but the other one (many plaintiffs) I can't find the result of. Did they win, but fear more related lawsuits?
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Jul 31, 2019 00:20
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lol are they really encouraging L2s and L3s to recruit lower-tier
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Jul 31, 2019 00:27
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Afaik the outcomes haven't been disclosed, other than that if they don't change things by Oct. 1 then there are unacceptable repercussions to Hasbro.
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Jul 31, 2019 00:34
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ItBreathes posted:Afaik the outcomes haven't been disclosed, other than that if they don't change things by Oct. 1 then there are unacceptable repercussions to Hasbro. Ok, that makes a ton of sense, slamming this bullshit into place as quickly as possible.
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Jul 31, 2019 00:36
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ItBreathes posted:Afaik the outcomes haven't been disclosed, other than that if they don't change things by Oct. 1 then there are unacceptable repercussions to Hasbro. Toby Elliott posted that the alternative was a "smoldering crater".
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Jul 31, 2019 00:40
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LifeLynx posted:Toby Elliott posted that the alternative was a "smoldering crater". A "smoldering crater" being "paying judges for the illegal labor we extracted from them plus damages" most likely.
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Jul 31, 2019 00:54
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LifeLynx posted:Toby Elliott posted that the alternative was a "smoldering crater". Judges would have been better off
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Jul 31, 2019 01:03
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A Moose posted:So I guess this is a good time to practice slight of hand or whatever now. Either to get good at spotting it or just rack up the free wins due to no judges being around to catch you cheating (everyone will do this one btw). Honestly theres more reasons to cancel paper tournaments than to have them. Pretty much the only thing in favor of them is nostalgia. People can still have conventions about games that are entirely online and I think that's what will take the place of the biggest tournaments. Just do the double nickel, it’s not at all hard to do and if the judge hasn’t heard of it it looks totally innocent. best effort/reward/risk ratio
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Jul 31, 2019 01:05
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LifeLynx posted:Toby Elliott posted that the alternative was a "smoldering crater". I'd pay 2 and cycle this program too, tbh.
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Jul 31, 2019 01:16
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Just do the double nickel, it’s not at all hard to do and if the judge hasn’t heard of it it looks totally innocent. best effort/reward/risk ratio Do six piles of ten to count your opponent's cards.
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Jul 31, 2019 01:21
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"mana-weaving is fine, I do it all the time. Can I borrow $100 for the next set of foils?" - Judges, 2020
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Jul 31, 2019 01:21
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Make JA a "forgotten cave" by deleting posts about it and hoping we forget, and instead just paying judges like you fuckin should've, before paper magic becomes a "blasted landscape".
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Jul 31, 2019 01:24
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I mean, if this Judge certification protocol is now something that ANYONE can do, related to WotC or not, then I mean, aren't the floodgates just going to start opening? What I'm saying is, can anyone help me set up a Kickstarter for Doobie's Judge House?
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Jul 31, 2019 01:25
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Make JA a "forgotten cave" by deleting posts about it and hoping we forget, and instead just paying judges like you fuckin should've, before paper magic becomes a "blasted landscape". Can we also send Hasbro's entire board of directors to a remote isle?
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Jul 31, 2019 01:26
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Abhorrence posted:I mean, if this Judge certification protocol is now something that ANYONE can do, related to WotC or not, then I mean, aren't the floodgates just going to start opening? There are no protocols. The new thing has set up (is setting up, as they dont appear to have any details yet) their own standards and levels, but there's no structure or system they tie into. What the new thing does have is judge foils, and implied exclusivity to them.
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Jul 31, 2019 01:29
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JerryLee posted:Can we also send Hasbro's entire board of directors to a remote isle? They'd turn that "lonely sandbar" into a "polluted mire" before you could tap the sol ring and raze them. I'd rather drown them in "fetid pools" by which I mean drowning them.
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Jul 31, 2019 01:31
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Magic as a whole was way closer to dying from BFoZ block to Kaladesh block, during that string of really bad standard formats. Yes, the new judge academy is bad and lovely for paper tournament players and absolutely reeks of WotC or Hasbro trying to dodge paying 26 years worth of wages for judges, but there are a ton of players out there this won't affect.Sampatrick posted:WotC doesn't want to kill of Modern because Hasbro specifically called out Modern Horizons as one of the growth driving products during their earnings report. I have literally no idea what their goal actually is though.
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Jul 31, 2019 01:42
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In WotC's defense, setting up judges as employees when labor laws vary between the many different countries Magic is played in and even within just the United States has got to be difficult. But gently caress them because they had at least 20 years and millions of dollars to figure it out, and instead they just blissfully ignored it and benefited from "volunteer" labor until enough people caused enough of a problem for their corporate overlords that they were forced to take drastic action.
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Jul 31, 2019 01:50
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As long as Hasbro is making $infinity by selling paper cards, they will continue to support paper events.
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Jul 31, 2019 01:51
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