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There is an anti-archvile script out there somewhere, I downloaded it once because gently caress archviles but I can't remember where I got it from unfortunately. edit: Repost for new page, make sure to let VideoGames know if you want the sweet WAD Club gang tag! VideoGames posted:I will request that this is uploaded and then once it is done, post again asking for people who wants tags to let me know and I will get them added on VideoGames posted:I will take the link to your new avatar and use it as a gangtag to request changes for anyone who would like one.
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Jul 31, 2019 18:05
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I don't want to make an entire post just to ask for a gang tag so I'll also offer this important piece of information: Revenants are also the best Doom enemy. Thank you for your time.
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Jul 31, 2019 18:09
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VideoGames posted:Ha! I could have gotten it uploaded to the servers for free, but this way is quicker. So I will take the link to your new avatar and use it as a gangtag to request changes for anyone who would like one. Plus I will put in a request your old avatar so you do not have to buy a new one. I would love a Wad Club gang tag.  Thank you!
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Jul 31, 2019 18:13
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Archviles are a very interesting and good enemy that sometimes gets abused for cheap tricks like chain gunners. I also tend to play very hard WADs where a lot of encounters wouldn't work without rear end in a top hat archvile placements, so opinions may vary. I'd totally take a DOOM WAD tag, please.
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Jul 31, 2019 18:17
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Turin Turambar posted:Yep. Archviles are the stuff of nightmares in Doom, much more than any other enemy that isn't a CD. Two Barons? ok. Two Mancubus? ok. Two revenants? ok. Archviles are the coolest enemy in doom so I'll be sad if they nerf the hell out of them/dilute their gimmick in the same way as like, new revs afaik not having homing rockets e; new revs look cool but someone's gotta teach today's gamers how to do the half circle back motion DisDisDis fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jul 31, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 18:21
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an_mutt posted:alternatively: Oh, it's one of the best enemies on the game. I hate them. But... I love to hate them. DisDisDis posted:Archviles are the coolest enemy in doom so I'll be sad if they nerf the hell out of them/dilute their gimmick in the same way as like, new revs afaik not having homing rockets I'm not even sure Pain Elementals spawn new enemies in Doom Eternal, I couldn't catch a glimpse of it in any of the videos. So, yeah...
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Jul 31, 2019 18:24
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site posted:i swear, if someone made a script or dehacked patch or whatever is just completely disables avs from being spawned in maps that use them i would use that poo poo in a heartbeat Would that make Plutonia MAP11 more or less spooky then? e: also I would like a DOOM CLUB gang tag please
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Jul 31, 2019 18:25
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There were some old WADs that exploited a fun engine quirk with Archvile resurrection to make "ghost" enemies that could clip through level geometry and could only be killed by splash damage. Icarus: Alien Vanguard intentionally used the bug in map 24 and back in the day it made for one of the biggest  Doom memories I can recall. There were probably some other maps out there that used it but they'd all be old since all source ports corrected the problem.As a tangent to monster infighting this was a fun goof that used to be possible: Monster suicide
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Jul 31, 2019 18:27
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How threatening an arch-vile is can vary wildly depending on the context of the encounter. They kinda feel like two enemies smashed together, their resurrection ability and their attack could work just fine seperately as a monster's only gimmick.
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Jul 31, 2019 18:33
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Arivia posted:Would that make Plutonia MAP11 more or less spooky then?
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Jul 31, 2019 18:38
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Fabulousity posted:As a tangent to monster infighting this was a fun goof that used to be possible: Monster suicide That's a super fun bug and I didn't know about that! But makes total sense. blakyoshi posted:How threatening an arch-vile is can vary wildly depending on the context of the encounter. They kinda feel like two enemies smashed together, their resurrection ability and their attack could work just fine seperately as a monster's only gimmick. Yeah that's how I feel. You could have a necromancer enemy and a magical blast enemy as two different dudes. Putting them all in one is just .. friggin mean !
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Jul 31, 2019 18:46
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blakyoshi posted:How threatening an arch-vile is can vary wildly depending on the context of the encounter. They kinda feel like two enemies smashed together, their resurrection ability and their attack could work just fine seperately as a monster's only gimmick. I think it's important since fighting them innately requires cover camping them in some capacity that they have an element that pressures you to be the aggressor, since if you sit around too long they may just rez a bunch of stuff. Also while it rarely works out this way in practice a monster that can shoot through other enemies having a way to build a wall of meatshields makes sense.
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Jul 31, 2019 18:47
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Turin Turambar posted:I'm not even sure Pain Elementals spawn new enemies in Doom Eternal, I couldn't catch a glimpse of it in any of the videos. So, yeah... This is a change I'm okay with. gently caress Lost Souls and especially gently caress Pain Elementals.
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Jul 31, 2019 18:48
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Personal pref: shotgun dancing with a Baron at point blank range is fun, once. Probably will skip the rest of Sigil if it’s a dang theme. I do like the Doom 1 purity for now, though. And I’m noclipping through crushers, and not feeling even a little bad about it. Also, gang tag, please! Unless my casual playing disqualified me.
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Jul 31, 2019 18:49
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doctorfrog posted:Personal pref: shotgun dancing with a Baron at point blank range is fun, once. Probably will skip the rest of Sigil if it’s a dang theme. I made the mistake of dancing with the baron at point blank range the first time.  you can just shoot him through the bars. Way easier.
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Jul 31, 2019 18:50
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doctorfrog posted:Personal pref: shotgun dancing with a Baron at point blank range is fun, once. Probably will skip the rest of Sigil if it’s a dang theme. i have bad news
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Jul 31, 2019 18:50
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For all of us that hate Archviles, just wait until we get to Glory Kill one in Doom Eternal. That's gonna be satisfying.VideoGames posted:I will request that this is uploaded and then once it is done, post again asking for people who wants tags to let me know and I will get them added on FPzero fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jul 31, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 18:51
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site posted:i have bad news I’m John Romero and I would like to talk to you about the good news of Hell.
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Jul 31, 2019 18:54
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FPzero posted:For all of us that hate Archviles, just wait until we get to Glory Kill one in Doom Eternal. That's gonna be satisfying. The archvile will soon learn that the only thing one should fear more than Doomguy running at you is Doomguy running at you while on fire.
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Jul 31, 2019 19:10
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VideoGames posted:I will request that this is uploaded and then once it is done, post again asking for people who wants tags to let me know and I will get them added on making a whole rear end post to ask for the gang tag Black Griffon fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jul 31, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 19:39
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CJacobs posted:The archvile will soon learn that the only thing one should fear more than Doomguy running at you is Doomguy running at you while on fire. It still won't help, he can rip and tear while panicked out of his mind. also the gang tag is cool and I'd appreciate it, if there's no requirement like "has to have posted some meaningful commentary on one of the chosen wads" because uh sigil yeah it's... sigil
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Jul 31, 2019 19:42
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90s Cringe Rock posted:also the gang tag is cool and I'd appreciate it, if there's no requirement like "has to have posted some meaningful commentary on one of the chosen wads" because uh sigil yeah it's... sigil You must post your original un-altered kill screen from E5M8 with 100% kills and secrets or you don't get the gang tag! Nah gently caress that.  I'll be posting a one-map bonus WAD for the weekend, as well as opening up voting for the next main club WAD soon, which will start next week. So you won't have to wait long to move past Sigil if its not your cup o tea.
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Jul 31, 2019 19:46
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Yeah, as annoying as they are I find Archviles to be one of my favorite enemies from a game design perspective, if not my favorite in the actual moment. They're fun because they make for a good extremely high priority monster that you have to find ways to get at while still dealing with other enemies. You need to kill the Archvile because he's just gonna keep bringing poo poo back, and they're extremely dangerous because you can't avoid them and have to find ways to break line of sight (which also might require you to stay in one place until he's finished, something that's dangerous when there's other enemies around). They're an interesting combat challenge. Less fun when 50 of them show up in a place you can't reach.
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Jul 31, 2019 19:46
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an_mutt posted:alternatively: And speaking of clubs, gimme dat wad club tag
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Jul 31, 2019 19:50
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I don't not like sigil, it's just a big chunky wad that I find hard to say anything about. I do not like archviles, but I'm glad they exist so that I can hate them. Pain elementals I just don't like and not in a good way - maybe if they looked different? Like a skeletal cacodemon instead of a rubbish brown one.
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Jul 31, 2019 19:50
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Glagha posted:Yeah, as annoying as they are I find Archviles to be one of my favorite enemies from a game design perspective, if not my favorite in the actual moment. They're fun because they make for a good extremely high priority monster that you have to find ways to get at while still dealing with other enemies. You need to kill the Archvile because he's just gonna keep bringing poo poo back, and they're extremely dangerous because you can't avoid them and have to find ways to break line of sight (which also might require you to stay in one place until he's finished, something that's dangerous when there's other enemies around). They're an interesting combat challenge. Less fun when 50 of them show up in a place you can't reach. I hate them, but I don't think they should be removed from the game. But as someone said before, a big part of it is how map makers place them. IMO there should be like, maybe one arch-vile per map. Having 20 of them in one room is just stupid, unless you're playing with Russian Overkill or some similarly game-breaking weapon mod. I do like the idea of a high priority but very tough enemy that you can't ignore because they can rez, and also an enemy that has a non-line-of-sight attack who can summon enemies to get in your way. Those both sound like things that do belong in doom. But how to balance that with how loving lovely they are? It has me curious to try playing with enemy designs in doom, since everything can be modded. Like what if you had a similar type of enemy, but it couldn't resurrect all enemies, just imps? Something like that. Doom is all about weaving through enemies and bullets in order to pick off targets based on priorities, so things that make you alter those priorities seem good. One thing I was thinking about recently, I was looking at the bosses in Duke Nukem, and trying to think of how you could make better FPS bosses for Doom. Its not an easy ask. FPS bosses are usually pretty garbage. Destiny has finally started to do the kind of RPG boss design which makes for really cool FPS bosses, but it takes a TON of work to actually design and implement the kinds of mechanics you need to make for a challenging and also fun boss fight. And that's with full 3D, being limited to a few sprites facing different directions makes boss fights in Doom/Duke feel even more funky than in Quake-onwards. And even Quake, like, they wanted to make boss fights but at the end of the day there's the one where you run in a circle and hit switches and the one where you jump in a portal to telefrag the boss... both are pretty lame. Designing a good boss fight for Doom is really hard. And I guess slaughtermaps kinda show that maybe its foolish, rather than try to make one big flashy tough enemy which doesn't play very well, better to just have 10,000 weak enemies that you get to blast one after another and at least get some satisfying feedback, compared to a giant cyberdemon with 10,000 hp who just sits there and tanks your shots for 10 minutes. 90s Cringe Rock posted:I do not like archviles, but I'm glad they exist so that I can hate them. Pain elementals I just don't like and not in a good way - maybe if they looked different? Like a skeletal cacodemon instead of a rubbish brown one. I'm with you, I've always despised Archviles, but the meatballs always just seemed dumb and annoying to me in a different way. Cacos look way cooler and loving lost souls suck dick. But I don't think the idea of a summoner enemy or spawner enemy is a bad idea per se. So I'm curious how you could like, "fix" the pain elemental. Like I was saying, maybe have them spawn imps instead of lost souls, something like that. Wouldn't work with how cacos can fly but IDK. Maybe instead of having a brown caco you have a purple hell knight that can summon imps? I could try modding something like that, see how it plays. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jul 31, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 19:55
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Actually, summoning imps only for them to fall into death pits sounds perfect.
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Jul 31, 2019 19:58
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an_mutt posted:alternatively: rf1024 was by far one of my favorite WADs until they stated pulling the archvile abuse. It came to a point where I bound a key to kill archvile and hit it every time I started a map.
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Jul 31, 2019 19:59
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90s Cringe Rock posted:Actually, summoning imps only for them to fall into death pits sounds perfect. I suppose that'd make them... ... lost souls 
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Jul 31, 2019 20:01
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let's post examples of good archvile use in maps. I'll start https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-57grr-71w&t=1233s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF9AoGXoWA0&t=757s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epncHR4fR5M
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Jul 31, 2019 20:11
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DisDisDis posted:let's post examples of good archvile use in maps. I'll start This looks awful personally He's just standing there firing like 60 rockets at a mosh pit of arch viles And then they see him so his screen is full of fire and he just ducks in and out of cover firing so he can cancel the arch vile attack. Pretty boring. I think the screen filling with fire is one of my biggest problems with the viles. You need something so you know they're attacking you with their range move, but it basically blinds you. The later part of that video where he's fighting a billion cacos and imps in a big open room looks rad as gently caress though.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:19
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Here's a map with an archvile surgically introduced to make you poo poo yourself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2ZAbgLfbz8 What are the next wad candidates?
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Jul 31, 2019 20:20
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SelenicMartian posted:What are the next wad candidates? I'm gonna make a big effort post on Friday. I'll select 4-5 of the WADs nominated thus far at random, post a short blurb and link to each of them, and then post a big weighted vote so everybody can say which they like and which they hate. And then I'll just do my best to pick the one that gets the most response. I've been collecting all the mentions in the thread so far into a sheet.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:22
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Archvilles are the only enemy in Doom that have made me shout "Oh gently caress you!" out loud at their placement so they'll always have a special place in my heart. Probably behind a pillar or on top of a plinth a mile away.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:23
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Zaphod42 posted:This looks awful personally That person has screen effects turned off which kind of obscures what's cool about that setup. They're fighting the viles on a 10 damage hurt floor and extra bio suits are on top of player lowerable pillars which are of course also what you're using as cover from getting instagibbed by 100 viles, so it's kind of a time pressure thing where you have to kill most of them before you run out of good ground. I think the player kind of trivialized it anyway by routing the map to come in with a full biosuit but I saw someone streaming it get stuck there a long time and thought it was pretty inventive. The possibility of just game overing there or otherwise trivializing it mighta been why it got rejected from Sunlust though. DisDisDis fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Jul 31, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 20:27
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DisDisDis posted:That person has screen effects turned off which kind of obscures what's cool about that setup. They're fighting the viles on a 10 damage hurt floor and extra bio suits are on top of player lowerable pillars which are of course also what you're using as cover from getting instagibbed by 100 viles, so it's kind of a time pressure thing where you have to kill most of them before you run out of good ground. I think the player kind of trivialized it anyway by routing the map to come in with a full biosuit but I saw someone streaming it get stuck there a long time and thought it was pretty inventive. The possibility of just game overing there mighta been why it got rejected from Sunlust though. Azuruish does their runs TAS including like rewinding and poo poo for perfect runs. They're fun to watch, but they are absolutely not representative of the real play experience. Conversely, that's why he's one of the only people with a recorded playthrough of okuplok.wad (I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THE 6000 MONSTER SLAUGHTERMAP FOR THE CLUB).
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Jul 31, 2019 20:30
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DisDisDis posted:That person has screen effects turned off which kind of obscures what's cool about that setup. They're fighting the viles on a 10 damage hurt floor and extra bio suits are on top of player lowerable pillars which are of course also what you're using as cover from getting instagibbed by 100 viles, so it's kind of a time pressure thing where you have to kill most of them before you run out of good ground. I think the player kind of trivialized it anyway by routing the map to come in with a full biosuit but I saw someone streaming it get stuck there a long time and thought it was pretty inventive. The possibility of just game overing there or otherwise trivializing it mighta been why it got rejected from Sunlust though. Ahh, okay. I didn't realize. Yeah, that's a cool mechanic. Although that video maybe not the best demonstration of it then. Still, that's too many archviles! I like the idea of the room of nukage and you have to lower the suits to get protection but in doing so you lose cover, but maybe have like 2-3 arch viles and a ton of imps to give them cover and that they can resurrect or something.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:33
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Arivia posted:Azuruish does their runs TAS including like rewinding and poo poo for perfect runs. They're fun to watch, but they are absolutely not representative of the real play experience. Conversely, that's why he's one of the only people with a recorded playthrough of okuplok.wad (I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THE 6000 MONSTER SLAUGHTERMAP FOR THE CLUB). Oooh. I'd seen other people's TAS UV Max's and figured they just knit saves together so they could post a smoothe "demo" like video even if they couldn't beat the map deathless. Maybe they just max damage rolled every rocket and that's why it looked so much easier than when I saw someone streaming it. e; yeah that's a fair take zaphod. I like "enough viles to probably oneshot you" but you could definitely manage the same setup with fewer pillars alongside fewer viles. DisDisDis fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jul 31, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 20:34
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I want to nominate a wad but I can't for the life of me remember what it's called; I want to say it's something like Return To UAC but that's turning up nothing. It's got a very atmospheric, slow opening, with (if I remember right) some time on a monotone planet surface before going underground to a UAC type base. Any ideas anyone? Also can I have a wad club tag please 
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Jul 31, 2019 20:36
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DisDisDis posted:Oooh. I'd seen other people's TAS UV Max's and figured they just knit saves together so they could post a smoothe "demo" like video even if they couldn't beat the map deathless. Maybe they just max damage rolled every rocket and that's why it looked so much easier than when I saw someone streaming it. I enjoy watching Doom playthrough videos on youtube (they're relaxing, I fall asleep to them), but outside of ones that are specifically listed as "I recorded a demo by j4rio or ancalagon" or something like that I would be skeptical that any of them are done deathless and that well. Azuruish just points out that they use all the tools in the TAS toolkit, not just stitching runs together.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:38
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