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but how does Camacho factor in to this?
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Jul 31, 2019 06:01
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Alaois posted:but how does Camacho factor in to this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD2ZtJwRSiQ
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Jul 31, 2019 06:11
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Alaois posted:but how does Camacho factor in to this?
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Jul 31, 2019 08:03
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frankenfreak posted:Him as Sin Cara would have been something to see for sure. THAT'S WHY HE AND TAMA WEAR THOSE HELMETS! 
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Jul 31, 2019 15:41
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DLC Inc posted:"I will break your arms to provide my children with a better life" is a fantastic heel gimmick tbh
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Jul 31, 2019 16:20
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I don't know how this answers my question, Tanga Loa is clearly not the same person, he's not even Mexican!
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Jul 31, 2019 18:15
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Sidenote to all this Sin Cara-talk, it looked like he (Hunico) was getting to a good point when he and Kalisto had their NXT tag run, since Kalisto would do all the highflying and Sin Cara would be the stronger/power-guy, with his cool one-arm powerbomb move. Bummer that kinda went nowhere. Sort of related (and probably already asked, but this thread is huge): who is the biggest, most high-profile wrestler to get signed by WWE to end up being a HUGE flop? Like, tons and tons of hype, initial big push, then slumming it on the preshow rumble matches within a year or so? Sin Cara (1&2) definitely fit this, but anyone else come to mind?
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Jul 31, 2019 19:33
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Balor
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Jul 31, 2019 19:35
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Nakamura
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Jul 31, 2019 19:43
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Scott Steiner
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Jul 31, 2019 19:46
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Sort of related (and probably already asked, but this thread is huge): who is the biggest, most high-profile wrestler to get signed by WWE to end up being a HUGE flop? Like, tons and tons of hype, initial big push, then slumming it on the preshow rumble matches within a year or so? Sin Cara (1&2) definitely fit this, but anyone else come to mind? Tazz is in the conversation for sure. Maybe DDP.
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Jul 31, 2019 19:50
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KENTA might not be the biggest example but he’s probably one of the sadder ones
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Jul 31, 2019 19:51
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Not the biggest flop (though technically  ) but Paul Wight coming in was a big nothing for a while.
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Jul 31, 2019 19:52
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akebono
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Jul 31, 2019 19:54
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Not the biggest flop (though technically Big Show never felt as dangerous or as over as Giant did. The Chokeslam was over.
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Jul 31, 2019 19:57
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I can't say Nakamura because he won the Rumble and was huge in NXT, and Balor probably was on track to much more before Rollins murdered him. KENTA is up there but personally I feel like DDP was loving destroyed in WWE. Dude wanted to wrestle so bad he cut his AOL poo poo in half just to get in, only to be made an example of because WCW. Fantastic ring+promo talent, he could have done so much but because he was WCW they had to bury him harder than anyone else coming in. The whole InVasion angle was just a way to make everyone coming in look like poo poo except for RVD who got massively over.
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Jul 31, 2019 19:58
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Gavok posted:Maybe DDP.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:00
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would be easier to name pushes that did work
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Jul 31, 2019 20:01
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DLC Inc posted:I can't say Nakamura because he won the Rumble and was huge in NXT, and Balor probably was on track to much more before Rollins murdered him. KENTA is up there but personally I feel like DDP was loving destroyed in WWE. Dude wanted to wrestle so bad he cut his AOL poo poo in half just to get in, only to be made an example of because WCW. Fantastic ring+promo talent, he could have done so much but because he was WCW they had to bury him harder than anyone else coming in. The whole InVasion angle was just a way to make everyone coming in look like poo poo except for RVD who got massively over. Well the question included "big initial push" so 2018  2019  You don't get much bigger of a fall over the course of a year than Royal Rumble Winner to Royal Rumble Preshow. Same with Balor, he won their brand new world championship in his 3rd match on the main roster, got injured, and has been in boring 6 month feud after boring 6 month feud ever since, with that Brock match this year being the most exciting thing he's done since 2017.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:05
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It’s funny how we all used to be baffled by how they could have screwed up the Invasion so badly cause with the benefit of hindsight it’s obvious Vince was pulling the same poo poo he pulls now even back then. He didn’t like that they were over, didn’t want them over, and made sure they didn’t get over
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Jul 31, 2019 20:07
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Super No Vacancy posted:would be easier to name pushes that did work AJ's like the only guy in the last few years that comes to mind as someone from the outside who came in, was protected really well and consistently was kept in view. Everyone else---Nakamura, Devitt, Joe, Zayn, Owens--has at some point been booked like a geek or left off the map creatively. Aesop Poprock posted:It’s funny how we all used to be baffled by how they could have screwed up the Invasion so badly cause with the benefit of hindsight it’s obvious Vince was pulling the same shot he pulls now even back then. He didn’t like that they were over, didn’t want them over, and made sure they didn’t get over kind of a loving miracle that Chris Jericho came in with huge fanfare and was consistently utilized by the company in ways WCW never would have done for him. It's like a bizarro world thing.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:07
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I feel like WWE tried their best to sabotage Jericho immediately after his debut but he somehow got over in spite of his awful initial booking.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:16
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Yeah Jericho was booked awful for a while and only made it out because of his charisma and ability. Remember Mr. Hughes?
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Jul 31, 2019 20:18
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DLC Inc posted:I can't say Nakamura because he won the Rumble and was huge in NXT, and Balor probably was on track to much more before Rollins murdered him. KENTA is up there but personally I feel like DDP was loving destroyed in WWE. Dude wanted to wrestle so bad he cut his AOL poo poo in half just to get in, only to be made an example of because WCW. Fantastic ring+promo talent, he could have done so much but because he was WCW they had to bury him harder than anyone else coming in. The whole InVasion angle was just a way to make everyone coming in look like poo poo except for RVD who got massively over. It's kind of hilarious that the weed incident halted RVD's championship run. They let something relatively tame by today's standards basically ruin the relaunch of an entire brand. Who's to say he would've had a great championship run otherwise, but there were a ton of possibilities at the time. Plus he was capable of amazing ladder matches.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:26
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bartok posted:I feel like WWE tried their best to sabotage Jericho immediately after his debut but he somehow got over in spite of his awful initial booking. Trips had a personal dislike for him, which certainly didn't help
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Jul 31, 2019 20:26
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Aesop Poprock posted:Yeah Jericho was booked awful for a while and only made it out because of his charisma and ability. Remember Mr. Hughes? Or strapping Chyna to a chair and breaking her thumbs with a hammer.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:28
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aj was booked as an absolute dork for the first ~5 months in, it was only because he kept getting over in spite of his booking that they decided to treat him like a main event player.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:38
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do you think once Vince dies and AEW has been kicking their rear end for a while, the WWE is going to do Dominos Pizza-style commercials where Triple H explains how the product isn't bad anymore edit: i thought this was the WWE discussion thread, but it could also go in this thread too
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Jul 31, 2019 20:40
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STONE COLD 64 posted:aj was booked as an absolute dork for the first ~5 months in, it was only because he kept getting over in spite of his booking that they decided to treat him like a main event player. I remember them finding excuses every week to cut him off before he could actually deliver a promo for some reason, because he had a reputation from his TNA years as not a great promo despite improving massively near the end and while in New Japan. Same thing they're doing with EC3 basically, except he's not one of the best wrestlers on the planet so he can't brute force his way through the "they won't let me loving talk" stage of his career like AJ did.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:42
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AEW isn't competition yet, Vince will ignore it until it starts affecting the bottom line.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:42
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Randaconda posted:AEW isn't competition yet, Vince will ignore it until it starts affecting the bottom line. Vince is already trying to stomp them out before they become real competition. It makes TNA even funnier in retrospec as wwe's strat to combat them was to just ignore them and let them destroy themselves.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:44
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Randaconda posted:AEW isn't competition yet, Vince will ignore it until it starts affecting the bottom line. AEW isnt going to effect the WWE's bottom line for awhile cause of blood money and the TV deals but Vince is treating them like competition. See the comments to investors about not doing blood and guts and the 5 year deals
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Jul 31, 2019 20:49
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Drew McIntyre posted:do you think once Vince dies and AEW has been kicking their rear end for a while, the WWE is going to do Dominos Pizza-style commercials where Triple H explains how the product isn't bad anymore I had this same convo with my boss last week, loving weird
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Jul 31, 2019 20:50
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Sidenote to all this Sin Cara-talk, it looked like he (Hunico) was getting to a good point when he and Kalisto had their NXT tag run, since Kalisto would do all the highflying and Sin Cara would be the stronger/power-guy, with his cool one-arm powerbomb move. Bummer that kinda went nowhere. Sting
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Jul 31, 2019 20:53
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Sidenote to all this Sin Cara-talk, it looked like he (Hunico) was getting to a good point when he and Kalisto had their NXT tag run, since Kalisto would do all the highflying and Sin Cara would be the stronger/power-guy, with his cool one-arm powerbomb move. Bummer that kinda went nowhere. Caristico didn't even get the big push. They started feuding him with Chavo within a month because Chavo MUST know lucha (he didn't) and then moved onto Matt Sydal who he actually had a cool match. But he's definitely the most glaring example of how much their system sucks and the biggest star they've completely flopped with. His run in the mid 2000s is among the hottest in the history of the business and when he went back to Mexico he immediately went back to being a spectacular wrestler. But WWE completely dropped the ball. Much bigger star than Nakamura. Probably on the level as Vader but WWF got more out of Vader. Barry Windham was a big flop but was also past his peak. Randaconda posted:AEW isn't competition yet, Vince will ignore it until it starts affecting the bottom line. He's already offering longer contracts with bigger guarantees so he's not ignoring AEW at all. Along with taking shots at them personally.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:55
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Vince is already getting ready to start positioning himself as the victim. Seth's idiotic interview about Moxley "taking food off [his] table" may or may not be Vince's words being spoken by Seth's mouth (I sure loving hope they are because if Seth actually thought that himself with no prompting then 1: not surprised, 2: still yikes) but you should absolutely expect Vince and Stephanie to start saying more or less this exact thing about AEW within the next year.
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Jul 31, 2019 20:55
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So that's two that Rollins took out, along with Balor, anyone else?
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Jul 31, 2019 20:58
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oh god it's gonna be the 90s all over, where Vince portrays himself as an innocent victim again 
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Jul 31, 2019 20:59
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Randaconda posted:oh god I'm reminded of one of the WCW documentaries on the Network, perhaps the Monday Night Wars one, where Vince says something like "In business, you help yourself, not hurt the other person" with a completely straight face.
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Jul 31, 2019 21:03
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SatoshiMiwa posted:AEW isnt going to effect the WWE's bottom line for awhile cause of blood money and the TV deals but Vince is treating them like competition. See the comments to investors about not doing blood and guts and the 5 year deals Plus that Evolve show counter-programming.
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Jul 31, 2019 21:10
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