Jaxyon posted:

Almost half of Michigan votes Republican. Trump's base is "white people".

Trump won Michigan by a tiny tiny margin and the biggest upset came from increased turnout of white people. There are plenty of "economically anxious" voters in Michigan, but for some reason the ones who bought into Trump were almost entirely white.

Must be his populist messaging, huh.

MrFlibble posted:

A lot of people stayed home because Clinton sucked harder than a turbo powered vacuum cleaner, hth.

Marxalot posted:

Well, kinda?

Jaxyon posted:

Man it's wierd that mainly white people heard that message on trade.

Lycus posted:

https://twitter.com/MattLaslo/status/1156613134272126978?s=20

MrFlibble posted:

Are you suggesting that no non-white people heard the messaging on trade and sat out as a result of it?

Genuinely curious if you're that loving racist and dumb.

Jaxyon posted:

I'm suggesting that white people who were drawn to Trump for "economic reasons" were also there for "racism reasons", probably more so.

And my evidence is that poor people went for hillary. Even poor whites, just by the smallest margin.

HootTheOwl posted:

For the same reason I don't vote for a third party in the general election? If my choices are Evil (won 24 states) and Lesser Evil (also won 24 states) and Best Candidate (hasn't performed above 10% in any primary) I'm going to vote for Lesser Evil.

HootTheOwl posted:

It's really not.

Jaxyon posted:

Man it's wierd that mainly white people heard that message on trade.

We must have genetically different ears or something.


Yeah and most of those were people who weren't going to get targeted by Trumps bigotry, white people gonna white.

Marxalot posted:

Well, kinda?

Uglycat posted:

Many of you know me, but for those that don't...

I'm an antifa super-soldier from South Bend, Indiana. I'm tight with many of the local BLM and New Black Panther folk. I occupied here, in 2011, and our local occupy built a hell of a local politics machine. Pete was elected in nov 2011, just as the cold ran us off from camp. At the time, I worked as a concierge at the hotel on Notre Dame campus - I was the first person someone visiting the campus would encounter, if they were staying at their expensive fancy full-service independent hotel. While I was there, I got really good at customer service because I wanted people to walk away from the desk happy so I could get back to this forum. I studied philosophy and psychology at the public state university's local satellite campus, graduating in '05. In '08, #OpChanology became a thing, and (for my involvement, where two other goons and I created enturbulation.org and established functioning moderation policies, while engaged in high-level strategizing on how to defeat a cult) I was recruited to the hacker team #Marblecake by Gregg Housh. When I stepped down from marblecake (where I would have been described as 'writefag' and 'strategist'), Barrett Brown took over the role.

After occupy, I quit my job. I was given a camera and a bicycle. I spent half a decade living in this city (with Pete as mayor) couch surfing, photographing *everything*, posting it all public on FB, and building the culture here (and weaving the social network here as tight as I could get it, so everyone knows everyone).

further backstory - I graduated from St. Joseph High School in '98 (just before joining SA). Pete graduated in '00 - he mentions my brother's commitment to service in his valedictorian address. This is the same high school that produced governor Joe Kernan - who lives about a block from the food co-op I'm typing this at. Kernan was groomed for a possible run for President, as was Mitch Daniels and Mike Pence. Kernan never ascended beyond governor, but Pete was raised in his legacy.

Pete's parents were both professors at Notre Dame. One of the cool things about South Bend is that it's a place for people to solve the 'two body problem.' If you haven't heard of it, there's this thing where people find their passion in undergrad, get accepted to a top-tier grad school, meet a mate that shares their peculiar and specific passion, the 'two bodies' graduate, and post-doc work is the next thing on their list. At this point, it's extremely difficult for the (now married) post-docs to find work in the same geographic location. Often, one partner drops out of academia.

In South Bend, we have the University of Notre Dame, we have IU South Bend (my alma mater), we have Bethel College, we have St. Mary's college, we have the parochial school system, a decent(ish) public school system, a variety of community colleges and trade schools, etc - to say nothing of our top-of-the-line library system. It's a place for academicians to eke out a family life together. Pete is from this background. I am too.

When he took over as Mayor, it was on him to appoint a new chief of police. He chose a black man from the South Bend Police ranks, a man born not far from here, a man that has lived here much of his life. Chief Boykins.

When Chief Boykins took over, it was his prerogative to change the police station's wiretaps. Boykins did nothing with the wiretaps, leaving them just as they were before he was made chief. One of those existing wiretaps - on outgoing calls from the police station - is extremely illegal in a 'feds will investigate your deparment' sort of way.

Karen DePape, the communications director for the SBPD, had access to the tapes the machine was gathering. Some white pd were racist toward some black pd (and toward the chief). A tape was recorded of white officers referring to boykins (allegedly?) as a 'monkey' and a 'friend of the family.' Those tapes were brought to DePape's attention, and she sent them to the FBI (without talking to Pete's office). The FBI looked 'em over and said 'holy poo poo, that's hugely illegal, you can't tap the outgoing calls from the police station, if you don't fire the chief of police we will begin a federal investigation.' It was made clear at the time that if Pete ever listened to those tapes, he'd be subject to the federal investigation, and it would be bad enough for him to be removed from office in disgrace and his political career would be over. He has never listened to the tapes.

After Pete fired Boykins (I was there on the million hoodie march in south bend the morning Boykins was fired, and Boykins gave his final address to the crowd at the end of the march - I drove home, looked up the news coverage, and boykins' resignation had just hit the news then).

Then the Feds told pete he had to fire DePape too, and that if he does the investigation will be put to bed.

Obviously, this outcome is not in the least bit satisfying to the many brilliant, politically active african american residents. Efforts were made by some people - not all acting in good faith - to use this to attack him as he ran for re-election. He was re-elected with overwhelming support.

I've been an advocate for homeless rights in this town, and spent a good amount of time homeless in this town before I went travelling. I've lived in tents. Right now, I live on a bus that's operated by an OG Zuccotti Park occupier - the bus is parked in view right now, as I look out from the Purple Porch Food Co-op.

I first met the operator of this bus at the DNC in Philly - where I chalked 'KaineButtigieg2020' on the sidewalk following Hillary's nomination. Since then, I spent 3 months at Standing Rock, 2 months in Flint, some time in the Black Hills, the Inauguration (where I tore off my clothes and took a face and dick full of pepper spray to stop a line of riot cops from advancing) and I've helped with a dozen or so intentional communities.

Pete has flaws, for sure. But he's one of the most progressive mayors in the country as well. And mayors in the country are nowhere near progressive enough. He employs the very latest in 'evidence-based best practices', but best practices for mayors still involves some really dumb turn-of-the-century bullshit like bulldozing homeless camps and having a police force /at all/.

Oh yeah, Pete's dad - who recently passed away - taught marxist literature at Notre Dame, and was often the first signature (alphabetically) on protest letters to the Administration from Tenured professors.

He is a troop. I don't care for troops. He's a statist (obvs), I'm an anarchist. He's not perfect. I participated in the 1000-homes-in-1000-days thing, nobody bulldozed black people's homes while they lived in 'em. I lived in that part of town growing up - I was the poor white kid that got to go to parochial school for free. My paper route was in the heart of the blighted west side. When we began the program, we identified the thousand blighted abandoned houses, and efforts were made to reach out to the owners. I place signs outside each of those structures (well, there was a team, and I covered a chunk of the city) with yard signs that said 'hey this house seems to be abandoned if you have any interest in it or want to take it over get at us' and each house had a unique 2-d bar code. That part of town was immensely improved for the efforts.

Downtown is a story of gentrification, and I've been a voice in the ear of the administration and the land developers warning against the consequences of gentrification. I saw what's happening in Flint, and the horrible natural progression of gentrification in a capitalist city is playing out a lot less horribly here than there. And it's horrible.

The problems being put at Pete's feet are real problems. Cities are divided. Racism is real. Black Lives Matter. Gentrification sucks. There's the Combined Sewer Overflow problem. There's homeless folk hanging about on the south side of downtown, sleeping under awnings and using the library's internet while asking workers for spare change. There's a heroin epidemic.

Pete hasn't solved any of this, but he's keenly aware of them and seeking creative solutions. Ideologically, he's not anti-capitalist anarchist - but I think he's sympathetic to antifascism. He still fails to see Chelsea Manning as a hero, and thinks Snowden is the same flavor of awful person that Julian Assange is. If there's anybody that knows that Trump is bad for American cities, it's him. If there's anybody intimately familiar with the challenges of running a city government, it's him. And he's looking to do good, and to change the status quo.

He's definitely not a sociopath. He is a white dude with a mostly white cabinet. Which, again, is a cultural thing that must be challenged and changed. The Police here sucks - but they suck anywhere. In truth, having been a homeless man in a variety of cities over the last 2 years, South Bend is one of the nicest (which isn't saying much), and I'm presently squatting a 34-foot schoolbus (painted at Standing Rock) in the middle of the city, and nobody's giving me /poo poo/ for it. 'course, me an' the crew are all white.

So, yeah. I'm as intimately familiar with Pete the man, and the city of south Bend, as you'll /ever/ meet. And I've spent the last 8 years working to build him up as a viable candidate for the presidency - so in a sense he does have someone on this forum whispering in his ear, insofar as I post a lot on FB and he sees all of my (very radical) posts.

If Bernie were not in the race, Pete would be my man - but I did make a pledge (when it was hillary v. trump) not to endorse any candidate for president that doesn't regard Chelsea Manning as a hero. I'm still firm on that resolve - but it does matter to me which way the wind blows. I know that Pete would be a much better president than Biden, much much better than Trump. They say 'never let the perfect be the enemy of the good', and pete's imperfect for sure (though not deserving of the weakly-informed vitriol in this thread). But so far as dem candidates goes, he's one of the 'good' ones.

Bernie 2020! (still wish /he'd/ call Chelsea a hero :-/)

Helsing posted:

America is a very racist country and the overwhelming majority of American whites are racist. Their anxiety about various issues like the economy is mediated through their culture and for most Americans that means economic anxiety is inseperable from racial anxiety. This is all elementary enough that I don't even think it needs to be said.

Despite their racism the voters of Michigan voted for Obama over Romney by more than 10% in 2012.

Unoriginal Name posted:

I'd love to see some breakdowns by county for MI in 2012 and 2016. I deeply suspect that the (black) Detroit population turned out for Obama and the (white) rural and Grand Rapids folks turned out for Trump.

I imagine that Obama giving GM a few billion federal dollars and saving Detroit's last lifeline probably earned him a few %

Jaxyon posted:

Yeah and most of those were people who weren't going to get targeted by Trumps bigotry, white people gonna white.

AsInHowe posted:

I will do this later, along with my bad memories from 2016. Essentially, the Clinton campaign went out of their way to keep people from campaigning in Michigan because the state was already won, and they knew better. They were incredibly angry at anyone trying to rally or GOTV in Michigan, including towards President Obama and Detroit's mayor.

Glasses Optional posted:

So i was doing research on what other goons said, and then this post comes and makes me call into question the other negative stuff being said about Bootlejugs.

Marxalot posted:

tHe MeDiA iSn'T bIaSeD

tylersayten posted:

The media sure as gently caress does, and you’re a fool if you believe their denial of it.

Majorian posted:

Clinton seriously underperformed among black and Latino voters, actually - to a degree where it can't be entirely explained by voter suppression. Indeed, there was evidence of this before the election.

e: Also 2016 voters were whiter than non-voters, so the whole premise of your argument here is pretty suspect.

e2: And here's a piece showing that voter suppression efforts can't fully account for Clinton's low turnout among POC voters.

Jaxyon posted:

I'm not sure how the election being whiter when trump is blowing the racism horn undercuts my argument, but Trump won Michigan by 10k votes and that's well within what voter suppression can do.

Ethiser posted:

Whatever happened to Bernie’s crazy Supreme Court Judge rotation strategy from the first debate?

SKULL.GIF posted:

I'm all in for Bernie but Warren did exceptionally well last night and I think a lot of internet leftists aren't allowing themselves to recognize that.

Unoriginal Name posted:

I'd love to see some breakdowns by county for MI in 2012 and 2016. I deeply suspect that the (black) Detroit population turned out for Obama and the (white) rural and Grand Rapids folks turned out for Trump.

I imagine that Obama giving GM a few billion federal dollars and saving Detroit's last lifeline probably earned him a few %

AsInHowe posted:

I will do this later, along with my bad memories from 2016. Essentially, the Clinton campaign went out of their way to keep people from campaigning in Michigan because the state was already won, and they knew better. They were incredibly angry at anyone trying to rally or GOTV in Michigan, including towards President Obama and Detroit's mayor.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Pete . . . not bad?

Thanks for posting first-person on the ground direct experience, Uglycat. Keep on keepin' on.

SKULL.GIF posted:

I'm all in for Bernie but Warren did exceptionally well last night and I think a lot of internet leftists aren't allowing themselves to recognize that.

Uglycat posted:

Helsing posted:

As far as explaining it all with a strictly racial explanation, I'm not sure how well that works.

Jaxyon posted:

Man it's wierd that mainly white people heard that message on trade.

We must have genetically different ears or something.

Jaxyon posted:

The explanation is NOT strictly racial.

It's just not strictly NON racial.

Or NON gender.

Uglycat posted:

Many of you know me, but for those that don't...

I'm an antifa super-soldier from South Bend, Indiana. I'm tight with many of the local BLM and New Black Panther folk. I occupied here, in 2011, and our local occupy built a hell of a local politics machine. Pete was elected in nov 2011, just as the cold ran us off from camp. At the time, I worked as a concierge at the hotel on Notre Dame campus - I was the first person someone visiting the campus would encounter, if they were staying at their expensive fancy full-service independent hotel. While I was there, I got really good at customer service because I wanted people to walk away from the desk happy so I could get back to this forum. I studied philosophy and psychology at the public state university's local satellite campus, graduating in '05. In '08, #OpChanology became a thing, and (for my involvement, where two other goons and I created enturbulation.org and established functioning moderation policies, while engaged in high-level strategizing on how to defeat a cult) I was recruited to the hacker team #Marblecake by Gregg Housh. When I stepped down from marblecake (where I would have been described as 'writefag' and 'strategist'), Barrett Brown took over the role.

After occupy, I quit my job. I was given a camera and a bicycle. I spent half a decade living in this city (with Pete as mayor) couch surfing, photographing *everything*, posting it all public on FB, and building the culture here (and weaving the social network here as tight as I could get it, so everyone knows everyone).

further backstory - I graduated from St. Joseph High School in '98 (just before joining SA). Pete graduated in '00 - he mentions my brother's commitment to service in his valedictorian address. This is the same high school that produced governor Joe Kernan - who lives about a block from the food co-op I'm typing this at. Kernan was groomed for a possible run for President, as was Mitch Daniels and Mike Pence. Kernan never ascended beyond governor, but Pete was raised in his legacy.

Pete's parents were both professors at Notre Dame. One of the cool things about South Bend is that it's a place for people to solve the 'two body problem.' If you haven't heard of it, there's this thing where people find their passion in undergrad, get accepted to a top-tier grad school, meet a mate that shares their peculiar and specific passion, the 'two bodies' graduate, and post-doc work is the next thing on their list. At this point, it's extremely difficult for the (now married) post-docs to find work in the same geographic location. Often, one partner drops out of academia.

In South Bend, we have the University of Notre Dame, we have IU South Bend (my alma mater), we have Bethel College, we have St. Mary's college, we have the parochial school system, a decent(ish) public school system, a variety of community colleges and trade schools, etc - to say nothing of our top-of-the-line library system. It's a place for academicians to eke out a family life together. Pete is from this background. I am too.

When he took over as Mayor, it was on him to appoint a new chief of police. He chose a black man from the South Bend Police ranks, a man born not far from here, a man that has lived here much of his life. Chief Boykins.

When Chief Boykins took over, it was his prerogative to change the police station's wiretaps. Boykins did nothing with the wiretaps, leaving them just as they were before he was made chief. One of those existing wiretaps - on outgoing calls from the police station - is extremely illegal in a 'feds will investigate your deparment' sort of way.

Karen DePape, the communications director for the SBPD, had access to the tapes the machine was gathering. Some white pd were racist toward some black pd (and toward the chief). A tape was recorded of white officers referring to boykins (allegedly?) as a 'monkey' and a 'friend of the family.' Those tapes were brought to DePape's attention, and she sent them to the FBI (without talking to Pete's office). The FBI looked 'em over and said 'holy poo poo, that's hugely illegal, you can't tap the outgoing calls from the police station, if you don't fire the chief of police we will begin a federal investigation.' It was made clear at the time that if Pete ever listened to those tapes, he'd be subject to the federal investigation, and it would be bad enough for him to be removed from office in disgrace and his political career would be over. He has never listened to the tapes.

After Pete fired Boykins (I was there on the million hoodie march in south bend the morning Boykins was fired, and Boykins gave his final address to the crowd at the end of the march - I drove home, looked up the news coverage, and boykins' resignation had just hit the news then).

Then the Feds told pete he had to fire DePape too, and that if he does the investigation will be put to bed.

Obviously, this outcome is not in the least bit satisfying to the many brilliant, politically active african american residents. Efforts were made by some people - not all acting in good faith - to use this to attack him as he ran for re-election. He was re-elected with overwhelming support.

I've been an advocate for homeless rights in this town, and spent a good amount of time homeless in this town before I went travelling. I've lived in tents. Right now, I live on a bus that's operated by an OG Zuccotti Park occupier - the bus is parked in view right now, as I look out from the Purple Porch Food Co-op.

I first met the operator of this bus at the DNC in Philly - where I chalked 'KaineButtigieg2020' on the sidewalk following Hillary's nomination. Since then, I spent 3 months at Standing Rock, 2 months in Flint, some time in the Black Hills, the Inauguration (where I tore off my clothes and took a face and dick full of pepper spray to stop a line of riot cops from advancing) and I've helped with a dozen or so intentional communities.

Pete has flaws, for sure. But he's one of the most progressive mayors in the country as well. And mayors in the country are nowhere near progressive enough. He employs the very latest in 'evidence-based best practices', but best practices for mayors still involves some really dumb turn-of-the-century bullshit like bulldozing homeless camps and having a police force /at all/.

Oh yeah, Pete's dad - who recently passed away - taught marxist literature at Notre Dame, and was often the first signature (alphabetically) on protest letters to the Administration from Tenured professors.

He is a troop. I don't care for troops. He's a statist (obvs), I'm an anarchist. He's not perfect. I participated in the 1000-homes-in-1000-days thing, nobody bulldozed black people's homes while they lived in 'em. I lived in that part of town growing up - I was the poor white kid that got to go to parochial school for free. My paper route was in the heart of the blighted west side. When we began the program, we identified the thousand blighted abandoned houses, and efforts were made to reach out to the owners. I place signs outside each of those structures (well, there was a team, and I covered a chunk of the city) with yard signs that said 'hey this house seems to be abandoned if you have any interest in it or want to take it over get at us' and each house had a unique 2-d bar code. That part of town was immensely improved for the efforts.

Downtown is a story of gentrification, and I've been a voice in the ear of the administration and the land developers warning against the consequences of gentrification. I saw what's happening in Flint, and the horrible natural progression of gentrification in a capitalist city is playing out a lot less horribly here than there. And it's horrible.

The problems being put at Pete's feet are real problems. Cities are divided. Racism is real. Black Lives Matter. Gentrification sucks. There's the Combined Sewer Overflow problem. There's homeless folk hanging about on the south side of downtown, sleeping under awnings and using the library's internet while asking workers for spare change. There's a heroin epidemic.

Pete hasn't solved any of this, but he's keenly aware of them and seeking creative solutions. Ideologically, he's not anti-capitalist anarchist - but I think he's sympathetic to antifascism. He still fails to see Chelsea Manning as a hero, and thinks Snowden is the same flavor of awful person that Julian Assange is. If there's anybody that knows that Trump is bad for American cities, it's him. If there's anybody intimately familiar with the challenges of running a city government, it's him. And he's looking to do good, and to change the status quo.

He's definitely not a sociopath. He is a white dude with a mostly white cabinet. Which, again, is a cultural thing that must be challenged and changed. The Police here sucks - but they suck anywhere. In truth, having been a homeless man in a variety of cities over the last 2 years, South Bend is one of the nicest (which isn't saying much), and I'm presently squatting a 34-foot schoolbus (painted at Standing Rock) in the middle of the city, and nobody's giving me /poo poo/ for it. 'course, me an' the crew are all white.

So, yeah. I'm as intimately familiar with Pete the man, and the city of south Bend, as you'll /ever/ meet. And I've spent the last 8 years working to build him up as a viable candidate for the presidency - so in a sense he does have someone on this forum whispering in his ear, insofar as I post a lot on FB and he sees all of my (very radical) posts.

If Bernie were not in the race, Pete would be my man - but I did make a pledge (when it was hillary v. trump) not to endorse any candidate for president that doesn't regard Chelsea Manning as a hero. I'm still firm on that resolve - but it does matter to me which way the wind blows. I know that Pete would be a much better president than Biden, much much better than Trump. They say 'never let the perfect be the enemy of the good', and pete's imperfect for sure (though not deserving of the weakly-informed vitriol in this thread). But so far as dem candidates goes, he's one of the 'good' ones.

Bernie 2020! (still wish /he'd/ call Chelsea a hero :-/)

Majorian posted:

But no one even remotely suggested that it was strictly non-racial or non-gender. You objected to people suggesting that it was even partially economic/trade-influenced.

Jaxyon posted:

No, I didn't.

Jaxyon posted:

Man it's wierd that mainly white people heard that message on trade.

We must have genetically different ears or something.


Yeah and most of those were people who weren't going to get targeted by Trumps bigotry, white people gonna white.

Majorian posted:

She did well, and the fact that it wasn't just Bernie up there defending leftist proposals was A Good Thing. She'll never be as good as he is, but I'm glad she was there. I think most leftists would agree.

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

it's also pretty fascinating to watch the effect on centrist psychology. One person in a room talking progressive policy is an extremist, who needs to be shut up immediately. Two people talking progressive policy is a consensus, that they all start to instinctively triangulate towards.

Majorian posted:

Yeah, you kind of did: