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After getting back into it these last few weeks, I have to agree. Everything from the genius design of the OG levels to the weapon feel to the challenge and enemy behavior (so simple, yet so fun) to the modability to the music... It's a loving masterpiece of masterpieces.
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Aug 1, 2019 06:41
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The fact that enemies have varying hit-stun properties and different weapons naturally slot into being able to keep them safely stunned is such a fundamental thing that's almost never talked about. Not only does it add depth to the combat, but it also provides an extra layer of feedback to the player that they're doing something right.
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Aug 1, 2019 |
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Aug 1, 2019 08:15
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Hot take, but I think Doom 2 is better than Doom.
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Aug 1, 2019 08:17
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It has some better elements, but
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Aug 1, 2019 08:30
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Mister No posted:Hot take, but I think Doom 2 is better than Doom. That's imo a tepid take. :P When asked which of the two is better,lots of fans fall back to the argument of 'well Doom 2 was almost an expansion so...' not noticing they aren't properly replying to the question. The question was what game is better, not what game supposed a bigger advancement over their predecessors (wolf3d to Doom or Doom to D2). Doom 2 had the best weapon (SSG) and better enemy variety, apart from the best enemies in general (Pain Elemental, Mancubus and Archvile). Most fans criticize Doom 2 maps from the middle of the campaign but imo they aren't so bad. In fact map-wise, I like D2 progression and vaiety better,from techbase to City to hell, and the last third is especially good. But really, the whole Doom 1 vs Doom 2 is something we nerds do when we are bored on Internet, usually when I think of classic Doom, I treat D1 and D2 as one entity on my mind.
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Aug 1, 2019 08:43
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IMO asking me which is better of Doom or Doom 2 is like asking me which of two lifelong friends I like better, but if I am playing custom levels I'd rather they were for Doom 2 because of the added stuff. The increased enemy variety makes a big difference.
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Aug 1, 2019 08:47
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Knee Deep in the Dead is virtually faultless, the latter Doom episodes are a lot more inconsistent (sorry Sandy). KDITD > Doom 2 > The rest of Doom
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Aug 1, 2019 09:52
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I want Tom Hall to announce his own version of Sigil, and for Sandy and Romero to finish all the maps for him
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Aug 1, 2019 10:03
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Doom and Doom 2 are one game, thats how I play them. Just when you think youve seen all there is to offer heres a whole new campaign with a completely gameplay redefining weapon and new enemies to mix it up. Also Knee Deep in the Dead is possibly the single greatest level set for any genre of game ever made
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Aug 1, 2019 11:48
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Barudak posted:Doom and Doom 2 are one game, thats how I play them. Just when you think youve seen all there is to offer heres a whole new campaign with a completely gameplay redefining weapon and new enemies to mix it up. I remember getting a magazine cover cd back in summer 1995 that had demos for Wolf 3D, Doom, Heretic, RoTT, Blake Stone, Descent and Dark Forces. That's basically two entire games worth of loving outstanding content for about £3. Additional bonus: the demos weren't signposted as adult games or age rated whereas my parents wouldn't let me play games rated 15+, so a handy loophole 
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Aug 1, 2019 12:00
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Playing through the Doom shareware on Chocolate Doom at night with all of the lights off is totally worth doing.
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Aug 1, 2019 12:13
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I finished RtCW. Lots of fun, although it got a bit "headshot them before they headshot you" at points. It amuses me that a 2001 fps still had a final boss that was basically "can you circle strafe."
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Aug 1, 2019 12:45
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Golden Souls 3 Demo 1 is out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfJAGY--giA Another, entirely unrelated recent release: Flipper is Mirror Mode for GZDoom.
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Aug 1, 2019 12:51
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Digitalfoundry did a review of the doom re-releases https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYTomYMAzYE
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Aug 1, 2019 15:57
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I definitely view doom 2 as an expansion pack, not a sequel.
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Aug 1, 2019 16:05
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I'm usually of the mind that Doom 2 > Doom, because it's literally just Doom with more stuff. However...I tend to replay Doom 1/Ultimate Doom more often because I really prefer the episodic structure instead of how Doom 2 just has 32 levels and the occasional text wall. Doom 1 also has the "you are here" screen, which does a lot to add to its sense of place. But Doom 2 has fantastic levels, even the lovely ones, it has the SSG, and it has a much wider and more diverse cast of enemies that require more precision in dealing with than anything from Doom 1. I'd almost always rather face a pair of CyberDemons than any Archvile combo out there.
chaosapiant fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Aug 1, 2019 |
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Aug 1, 2019 16:13
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chaosapiant posted:Doom 1 also has the "you are here" screen, which does a lot to add to it's sense of place. I called this out in the other thread, but I really think those screens add a lot to the atmosphere and I really miss them in doom 2. Even Heretic had them.  Warcraft 1 had similar CG map screens, and then War2 ditched them for little sprite art maps. Its interesting all the things the game industry was throwing at the wall back then.
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Aug 1, 2019 16:24
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Heretic is probably the one I like most, honestly. Other than the Firemace, I enjoy everything about the weapons, level design, art, etc. I replay it a lot more often than Doom or Doom 2. After that, I'd put Hexen as my next favorite, because of the level design and class system, though the low weapon count can make some campaigns feel a bit draggy. Then I'd say Doom 2 because I adore the city maps and their open style of exploration design. Then Doom 1 because it's still super solid.
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Aug 1, 2019 17:24
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Jupiter Hell is out in early access on Steam. It’s the spiritual successor to DoomRL and looks pretty fun. I haven’t tried the beta but I’ve heard good things.
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Aug 1, 2019 17:35
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Hell-Forged has a neat intermap, too:
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Aug 1, 2019 17:40
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Cat Mattress posted:Hell-Forged has a neat intermap, too: Oh man that's super rad
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Aug 1, 2019 17:44
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Mister No posted:Hot take, but I think Doom 2 is better than Doom. Linguica fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Aug 1, 2019 |
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Aug 1, 2019 17:46
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Has anyone ever modded, or anyone know of a mod that actually adds the "you are here map" into Doom 2? That'd be so coooool wouldn't it? I agree!
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Aug 1, 2019 17:47
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I agree, we need more wads with intermaps
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Aug 1, 2019 17:49
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Gloomy Rube posted:Heretic is probably the one I like most, honestly. Other than the Firemace, I enjoy everything about the weapons, level design, art, etc. I replay it a lot more often than Doom or Doom 2. After that, I'd put Hexen as my next favorite, because of the level design and class system, though the low weapon count can make some campaigns feel a bit draggy. Then I'd say Doom 2 because I adore the city maps and their open style of exploration design. Then Doom 1 because it's still super solid. heretic is probably my favorite, but Hexen really suffers from bland enemies. The wendigo is the one thing that really mixes things up, and it's nothing compared to the liches in heretic. The items system is also badly cluttered. Hexen's still the only one I've beaten at max difficulty with all classes (inc expansion) but the mechanics don't live up to the aesthetic Also Hexen 2 blows
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Aug 1, 2019 17:51
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Turin Turambar posted:That's imo a tepid take. :P Linguica posted:Absolute-zero take imo. Guys... I'm pretty sure 
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Aug 1, 2019 17:51
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Putting Heretic before Doom is heresy in itself.
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Aug 1, 2019 18:03
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Tulip posted:The items system is also badly cluttered. Between the Build holy trinity and Heretic I could just never quite get a handle on shooters with inventories. Though I suppose like 90% of the time you really only need to worry about healing. What's the ideal not-the-goddamn-brackets bind setup for being able to scroll through/use (I don't remember if you need a unique key for use item in those games) anyhow? Q + E would force Use to be somewhere else which feels wrong, R + F generally don't match the orientation. And no, I don't have any of your fancypants mice with extra buttons!!!! 
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Aug 1, 2019 18:10
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Gloomy Rube posted:Heretic is probably the one I like most, honestly. Other than the Firemace, I enjoy everything about the weapons, level design, art, etc. I replay it a lot more often than Doom or Doom 2. After that, I'd put Hexen as my next favorite, because of the level design and class system, though the low weapon count can make some campaigns feel a bit draggy. Then I'd say Doom 2 because I adore the city maps and their open style of exploration design. Then Doom 1 because it's still super solid. I like the enemy design and most of the weapons in Heretic but gently caress me, I hate the level structure. I rapidly lose patience with long and winding switch hunts and Heretic is infested with them - though it obviously has nothing on Hexen, which is Super Long Boring Switch Hunt: The Game. I much prefer Doom's punchier, faster level pacing. Maulotaurs are way scarier than Cyberdemons or the Mastermind ever were.
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Aug 1, 2019 18:16
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The multiple Maulotaur fight at the end of Heretic ep2 is the only really good bossfight in any of the 2.5D shooters imo
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Aug 1, 2019 18:20
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I'd rather replay they entire Catacombs series than Hexen. They've got enemies walking out of walls, statues and trees coming to life, and a time-stopping powerup in one of the later games.
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Aug 1, 2019 18:21
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Gloomy Rube posted:Heretic is probably the one I like most, honestly. Other than the Firemace, I enjoy everything about the weapons, level design, art, etc. I replay it a lot more often than Doom or Doom 2. After that, I'd put Hexen as my next favorite, because of the level design and class system, though the low weapon count can make some campaigns feel a bit draggy. Then I'd say Doom 2 because I adore the city maps and their open style of exploration design. Then Doom 1 because it's still super solid. God the Firemace was such a bad call. Instead of a BFG equivalent, let's shoot little bouncey balls that don't even have anything to do with fire and poop into nothing if they touch water. At least the Tomed Firemace was sort of fun to use, again, until you're near water. In a game where the third episode takes place under... Water. The Dragon Claw has the most annoying firesound in Doom history and the Tome upgrade is lame.
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Aug 1, 2019 18:22
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John Murdoch posted:What's the ideal not-the-goddamn-brackets bind setup for being able to scroll through/use (I don't remember if you need a unique key for use item in those games) anyhow? Q + E would force Use to be somewhere else which feels wrong, R + F generally don't match the orientation. And no, I don't have any of your fancypants mice with extra buttons!!!! I despise mousewheel weapon scrolling, I like using it for items instead when I have the chance. Wheel for items, middle click or something like F for item activation. Black Griffon fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Aug 1, 2019 |
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Aug 1, 2019 18:45
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T for use, weapons 1-6 on the buttons and everything else mapped to w z x etc. (I'm also of the superior ESDF movement set up)
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Aug 1, 2019 18:48
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I'm probably gonna try switching to ESDF when I dive into my annual Doom 16 Ultra Nightmare attempt soon. Need more ways to complicate what's already rending my mind asunder.
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Aug 1, 2019 18:54
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Okay, here’s a slightly more difficult question: what’s the best Build Engine game? Clearly it’s Tekwar but ignoring that obvious choice what do you guys think? I’d probably say that I think Blood is the best, but it’s honestly a bit tough as Powerslave is also great.
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Aug 1, 2019 19:52
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Console Powerslave doesn't use the Build engine and it's better there. Actually, what are decent PS1 shooters to check out? Disruptor is a bit Doom-y but with silly enemies. Brahma Force is nice in a stompy mecha way.
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Aug 1, 2019 20:03
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John Murdoch posted:Between the Build holy trinity and Heretic I could just never quite get a handle on shooters with inventories. Though I suppose like 90% of the time you really only need to worry about healing. I usually use z/x with left Alt as the 'use item' key. But I also use esdf for movement, so it might be a little too tight for wasd.
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Aug 1, 2019 20:06
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looking at my beta setup for testing out ESDF and regretting the choices I've made in life and the people I've wronged
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Aug 1, 2019 20:16
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that reminds me, i was watching a 100% speedrun of doom 16 and the runner was doing this thing where they would quickly flip between the rocket launcher, ssg, and...something else all within like 5 seconds for max damage and im still curious as to how they configured that. i dont even recall 16 having a console to make macros like that
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Aug 1, 2019 20:20
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