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WampaLord
Jan 14, 2010

Ferrinus posted:

When people say “metaplot” do they mean the setting backstory with Caine and the Second Inquisiton etc or do they specifically mean the idea that the official setting will change as new books come out and inform us all that the Gangrel have rejoined the Camarilla or whatever?

I mean the setting backstory, like in my original Masquerade game we weren't waiting around for books to get released to tell us the updates to the metaplot, I just mean the entire idea of "this is the greater world of Kindred that the characters un-live in"

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The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

Post those mirror Nossies drat it

Bloodline: The Angle-Daughters

Short version of flavor: a Nosferatu mathematician discovered the occult math of mirrors and suffused it into her blood, creating a bloodline mostly seen in among physicists, mathematicians, and similar professions. They're drawn to places of learning and embrace rarely. Instead of more typical Nosferatu fare they are prone to visual "glitches", a perfectly symmetrical face, light falls across them incorrectly, their appearance bends like they're reflecting in a mirror, or they just plain old "drop frames". They have a unique discipline called Mirror-Math.

Their weakness is whenever a mortal can see the Angle-Daughter in a mirror their social rolls (besides intimidation and their nightmare disciplines) against that mortal are reduced to a chance die because the flesh cannot hide what lurks in the blood.

An important detail: Mirror here means 'something designed for looking at yourself'. It is the spirtual mirrorness of an object that makes it a mirror, not it's reflective properties. (Otherwise this bloodline gets stupid fast)

Unique Discipline: Mirror-Math

• The Light Of Other Days: Roll Intelligence+Science+Mirror-Math. The vampire may see what the mirror has seen up to success number of days ago. On exceptional success take the Informed condition on something or someone displayed in the mirror.

•• Just A Reflection: An angle-daughter can create illusions in any mirror she can see or a mirror she has seen in the last week using her Nightmare disciplines. These illusions can be seen by multiple targets. Can use The Light Of Other Days to remotely view what a mirror sees by spending 1 Vitae, as long as it qualifies for Just A Reflection.

••• The Path Of Bending Light: The Angle Daughter can spend one Vitae to travel between any two mirrors she's seen large enough to fit her shoulders and head through. She may not take other people or large objects with her. Only belongings on her person and small objects.

•••• Glass Hurricane: Spend 1 Vitae and 1 Willpower; roll Presence+Occult+Mirror-Math to detonate a mirror within LoS, even mirrors that would shatter harmlessly (such as polished copper or safety glass) explode into a lethal storm of shards. The storm deals 2L damage to anyone in radius (which is BP feet wide). On exceptional success either double the damage or inflict an appropriate tilt such as Arm or Leg Wrack or Blinded to anyone in the radius.

••••• Beyond the Edge: The Angle-Daughter may spend 3 Vitae to enter the illusion world of a mirror and stay therein for a number of hours equal to the Angle-Daughter's BP. Within the illusion world she may not leave the mirror's field of view (but may manipulate objects such as doors to change it). She may not take others with her, but may bring objects out - they function as they should (providing appropriate bonuses), but disintegrate into crumbled glass within a day.

---

I've been thinking about swapping Path of Bending Light and Glass Hurricane, and that Glass Hurricane might be too weak for what it does (given vampires degrade almost everything to bashing). Thoughts and feedback welcome.

The Unlife Aquatic fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Aug 1, 2019

Jhet
Jun 3, 2013

WampaLord posted:

I mean the setting backstory, like in my original Masquerade game we weren't waiting around for books to get released to tell us the updates to the metaplot, I just mean the entire idea of "this is the greater world of Kindred that the characters un-live in"

You can like metaplot in Requiem as much as you want, but I now love the nWoD/Chronicles because my metaplot doesn't have to be the same metaplot as anyone else's. I get to make my own characters who have their own goals in the world and the world changes over time. There's history that feeds into that. I just don't need to buy more books or novels regularly where people expect me to adhere to it. I can understand how that shared environment is a lot of fun and it's exactly what plenty of people want in their game. It's not for me and plenty of other people, and I would't expect everyone to agree and only like one way. It's good to have options. The first releases for the nWoD didn't have nearly as much of the world as you live in, but it definitely built up in a lot of different ways than Masquerade did.

I have a hard enough time getting people to sit down to play Awakening, I couldn't imagine trying to do it with Ascension (even though I have two players right now who both played Ascension years ago). The newest edition fits our lives and table a whole lot better.

I do like this idea of Loresheets, and I kind of did something to that effect when we sat down to start my Awakening game about three years ago. I gave the players themes and the recent activity of the area, and gave them a brief concept of what the metaplot in the city was revolving around. They had a chart of all the major players, and could pick up ties to NPCs or to the activity in the city. No one took a lot of connections, which is fine, and the ones they took have evolved with the characters. I'm not sure what else would be put on these loresheets that I didn't have, but it's a good idea and I wish more games did something like it so players could start invested in some way in the world.

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

WampaLord posted:

I mean the setting backstory, like in my original Masquerade game we weren't waiting around for books to get released to tell us the updates to the metaplot, I just mean the entire idea of "this is the greater world of Kindred that the characters un-live in"

Oh, well, Requiem has one of those and at this point it’s highly detailed. When nWoD developers/writers/fans talk about no more metaplot they mean precisely books coming out which move time forward and change the setting from other books, not the general concept of the setting having a history.

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011

#mood
Hat tip to Juggalo Baby Coffin, Chernobyl Peace Prize, Unlife Aquatic, and Gatornado Buddy for keeping this thread flowing with interesting new ideas.

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

What about, instead of making it where the base power buy-in is how the bloodline becomes an effectively playable PC, you make it where the default state is that, and that the first dot of Parasitism (or hell, the third dot, and make the first and second 'you can more efficiently take advantage of the benefits of not really being obligated to this body') is the body-hopper?

So like, their weakness would be the Ventrue one, plus I dunno, maybe some situational penalty to fine motor control or perception within X amount of time of waking up / assuming a new host, because the connections aren't warmed up properly yet with their vitae? The blanket STR/DEX penalty feels insanely bad unless I'm misreading it.

And then you could have like:
Parasitism 1 - Count your Blood Potency as (Parasitism) lower and your Humanity as (Parasitism) higher for purposes of sunlight damage and frequency.
Parasitism 2 - Ignore (Parasitism) worth of wound penalties from bashing damage passively, from lethal damage by spending vitae for the scene, by just shutting out that nervous system stimuli
Parasitism 3 - The bodyswap, etc.

That way, one dot in the bloodline discipline already takes a starting character's Blood Potency to 0, which takes the frequency of sunlight damage dealt to "nope" while preserving the flavor of lil bone snek piloting corpse mech into the light. And if they're keeping up on their bloodline discipline as their BP increases, they can effectively always be walking out into the sun. Maybe make it cost blood per turn/scene just to keep them from being the full solution to the daystar though, or make it a "half Parasitism, rounded up" subtraction to BP. Something.

Maybe the embrace involves swallowing a piece of the dominatrix's sire's bone marrow, which grafts itself to the skeleton and begins the conversion process? High levels of Parasitism could involve like "spawn Yeerk" abilities. I could see it working also that they can ONLY embrace from ghouls, because mortal humans aren't physically resilient enough to withstand the process.

Anyway I wanted my players to come across something Visually Wrong which isn't immediately hostile, as a way to condition them away from associating beauty with goodness, so I cooked up a variant on the jackalope and decided it's the totem of everything a forest kills before it can reach maturity:

Elkenghast posted:

Across an expanse of mist, you see a majestic elk stand framed against an oil painting of a sky, a massive expanse of antlery jutting out directly from it's torso. The mist clears as it pads closer, and you see that it's fur is greasy, and dotted over with bulging tick-like blisters. It moves silently, you notice, because it's six powerful legs end in calloused hands, whose yellow fingernails are caked under with dirt.
A massive crease lines the creature's neckless torso, between the eruptions of antlers. This monstrosity must be young, for it's antlers are still covered over with velvet. As you look closer, you realize the antlers are slowly moving in the breeze, twisting and crackling at disconcerting angles. Because they all terminate in feet, you surmise that each antler is in fact a dozen legs.
When the cleft between the leg-antlers parts, it makes a noise like unpeeling a loaf of spoiled ham. The skinless body of a hare emerges forth from the violently red flesh, its teeth chattering noisily.

If they don't immediately attack the thing it's going to ask them to fight off some hobgoblins who have been summoning a wall of thorns around a rich patch of goblin fruit in exchange for favors.

Chernobyl Peace Prize
May 7, 2007

Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

The Unlife Aquatic posted:

Bloodline: The Angle-Daughters
Thoughts and feedback welcome.
Ok so immediate takes:
- Idea is cool and I like it
- Is the weakness using the same definition for "mirror" as the powers? Because if so, using your definition it may never come up. On the other hand, if you use "reflective surface" for both you've got high risk, high reward. Especially if these folks hang out in labs, which are lots of stainless steel and glasswork.

I'm going to throw out a hot take and say you should get rid of Glass Hurricane completely as a power, and then fold it into what happens when someone leaves the 5-dot mirrorscape. It would fit in well with the weakness, thematically---this bloodline sounds like ultimately their deal is things are More Perfect, but if you look at them too closely, the whole illusion falls apart. Forcing Beyond the Edge to end explosively would do that.

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011

#mood
Hey, Changeling question: I'm likely to use Onieromancy and Hedgespinning for the first time in-game, ITT everyone seems agreed that these are Mathematically Problematic, anyone have any tips for smoothing it over? My players are new. I'm also new. Everyone's new and we're having a great ole time with it.

edit- Wait, hedgespinning is item creation? I thought changelings could exert will to physically alter the hedge around them, am I confusing it with the Pursuit rules?

The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

Ok so immediate takes:
- Idea is cool and I like it
- Is the weakness using the same definition for "mirror" as the powers? Because if so, using your definition it may never come up. On the other hand, if you use "reflective surface" for both you've got high risk, high reward. Especially if these folks hang out in labs, which are lots of stainless steel and glasswork.

I'm going to throw out a hot take and say you should get rid of Glass Hurricane completely as a power, and then fold it into what happens when someone leaves the 5-dot mirrorscape. It would fit in well with the weakness, thematically---this bloodline sounds like ultimately their deal is things are More Perfect, but if you look at them too closely, the whole illusion falls apart. Forcing Beyond the Edge to end explosively would do that.

Honestly, now that I think about it I think you have a point on the reflective property thing. I was worried about them being OP but as long as the weakness cuts the same way it might counterbalance it.

And yes, that's the idea. They're obsessed with mathematical perfection, almost all angle-daughters were the sort of people who just thought "golly gee, math is real neat" because the Daughters attach spiritual significance to their knowledge of it. The first draft of their weakness was actually they could only embrace someone by exposing them to said occult math and having them understand it (but I felt like that was boring and didn't come up in play enough)

That'd mean they need a new fourth power, but I really like the idea of folding Glass Hurricane into Beyond the Edge. Maybe they can temporarily make something into a mirror by smearing their vitae on it?

nofather
Aug 15, 2014

Ferrinus posted:

Oh, well, Requiem has one of those and at this point it’s highly detailed. When nWoD developers/writers/fans talk about no more metaplot they mean precisely books coming out which move time forward and change the setting from other books, not the general concept of the setting having a history.

Some of the edition warriors have been pushing the idea that nWoD has no setting at all for years (I guess for over a decade) now.

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011

#mood

The Unlife Aquatic posted:

That'd mean they need a new fourth power, but I really like the idea of folding Glass Hurricane into Beyond the Edge. Maybe they can temporarily make something into a mirror by smearing their vitae on it?

This might be too niche and low powered for rank 4 or 5 but what about being able to manipulate a real-world object by touching a surface it's reflecting in? Like, touch a puddle in a gutter to make a nearby spy camera turn the other way. Closing a door by touching a window.

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements



Regarding mirror powers, I think you want to make it more subtle, and then have subtle wrongness collapse painfully.

My suggestion would be having the glass shards explosion be a (mild) failure state for the various powers. Mild in the sense that it will hurt the user as well, but they're a vampire and it won't do much to them, while mortals get lacerated - so it becomes a potent hunting technique. In particular, that mirror transportation power is very strong due to just needing to have seen the mirror you exit once, so I'd recommend having it make the mirror explode if anyone outside the bloodline (or some other quality, like 'alive' or 'either alive or has lower BP than you' witnesses you entering or exiting; the impossibility of entering or exiting a reflective surface strains and breaks it. That would also fit well with the "can't let people see my reflection" set up, which lends itself to a certain kind of atmosphere - and a classic folkloric monster atmosphere, at that.

On the other hand I'd let the capstone power not explode the mirror, because it's both a capstone and pretty limited. You could also have a defensive trick in this suite, where you can put injuries or other bad effects on your reflection instead of yourself (which ends if the mirror is broken) if you want to replace the Storm.

You could also have, as a flavorful and very mild weakness, unify the various issues by stating that the Angle-Daughter's reflection is never identical to the thing casting it. So their Nightmares either appear only in the mirror, or only in the physical world, and eventually that's true of them as well with the capstone.

All in all, a really cool bloodline, and one that would absolutely work well as either a player or an antagonist!

The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars

PHIZ KALIFA posted:

This might be too niche and low powered for rank 4 or 5 but what about being able to manipulate a real-world object by touching a surface it's reflecting in? Like, touch a puddle in a gutter to make a nearby spy camera turn the other way. Closing a door by touching a window.

I'd agree with the impulse that it's too weak for a four dot power but I think it could be a possible thing to fold into the two or one dot.

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

nofather posted:

Some of the edition warriors have been pushing the idea that nWoD has no setting at all for years (I guess for over a decade) now.

Yeah it’s bull. The setting’s history was certainly very thinly sketched when the 1e books were first coming out but there was in fact a concrete history. For instance, Dracula was a real vampire who started a Covenant.

Chernobyl Peace Prize
May 7, 2007

Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Joe Slowboat posted:

You could also have a defensive trick in this suite, where you can put injuries or other bad effects on your reflection instead of yourself (which ends if the mirror is broken) if you want to replace the Storm.
Ok this one's a really cool idea, you could make this the 2-dot, move 2 up to 3, 3 up to 4. That way you break up a streak of "mess with mirrors to X" directly with a "mess with yourself AND mirrors" which then gets revisited at 4 dots for transportation and 5 dots for full conversion.

If you wanted to make it real fun/nasty, you could have a limitation on it: your reflection Dorian Grey's all your injuries for you unless someone sees it and sees you uninjured, at which point you have to roll to resist taking them all. Unless they've already been subject to your weakness.

So you end up making vampires with that power either force others to confront their monstrosity to really drive that poo poo home, OR they appear extremely strong, but it's a fragile strength, easily broken.

Which sounds like it fits with what you're going for.

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



I'd like to echo that exploding mirrors seems counter-theme.

What about inflicting mirror-image disorientation? Baffling the target's perception and senses as if everything were reversed, up looks down, left feels right, etc.

This would make it all but impossible to do ... a lot. Mechanically, I don't know how you'd implement it - the idea is it would be a stylish interpretation of the video game gimmick where the controller flips. Which seems about right as a four dot defensive.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

moths posted:

I'd like to echo that exploding mirrors seems counter-theme.

What about inflicting mirror-image disorientation? Baffling the target's perception and senses as if everything were reversed, up looks down, left feels right, etc.

This would make it all but impossible to do ... a lot. Mechanically, I don't know how you'd implement it - the idea is it would be a stylish interpretation of the video game gimmick where the controller flips. Which seems about right as a four dot defensive.

To me this sounds like some mix of action penalty and/or making any failure count as a botch.

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements



moths posted:

I'd like to echo that exploding mirrors seems counter-theme.

What about inflicting mirror-image disorientation? Baffling the target's perception and senses as if everything were reversed, up looks down, left feels right, etc.

This would make it all but impossible to do ... a lot. Mechanically, I don't know how you'd implement it - the idea is it would be a stylish interpretation of the video game gimmick where the controller flips. Which seems about right as a four dot defensive.

Just make it a Condition or Tilt like 'disorientation' that subtracts dice from physical actions, and maybe has some cool resolution mechanic.

E: Ok further thought, I recommend removing the between mirrors teleportation and moving 'enter the mirror' to 4, and making 'bring other people into the mirror world with you' 5. Make it possible to walk from mirror to mirror as long as their 'fields of view' overlap, and have any inhabitants of a mirror be ejected when it's broken (possibly taking some damage from laceration). This allows for very spooky travel and spying while also not creating the issues the teleportation power would, plus you can abduct victims into the reflection.

Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Aug 1, 2019

The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars
Moths: Luckily there's actually a Demon Exploit that does something very similar I can use as a base! (Two Places At Once)

Bloodline: The Angle-Daughters

Have you ever looked the mirror, beyond your facile reflection? Have you ever run your finger along it's edge, and realized in your blood and still heart that there is more there than you could ever understand? The Mother Of All-Angles did. She studied light, glass-blowing, the warp of angles held inside the reflection. And with that knowledge, she dove inside. When she came back, she was changed. By the curve of her fangs she showed others the wonders she'd seen, and they understood too. They call themselves the Angle-Daughters now, and gather in places of learning to study and practice their arts in honor of her.

In modern nights they embrace rarely, preferring those who already understand the beauty of mathematics. In the past it was strictly mathematicians and physicists, but younger Angle-Daughters have begun to embrace programmers, chemists, in a few cases even professional photographers or painters, or other visual artists. Angle-daughters can mostly be found in the Ordo but they move among the Carth and the Circle as well. They are known for being reclusive, even by Nosferatu standards, burying themselves in research and obsession with their fields. Angle-Daughters suffer from a distinctive form of their clan curse, instead of a more traditional rotting visage Angle-Daughters are prone to aberrations of perspective and light. One might have a perfectly symmetrical body, another never properly casts a shadow, and light warps strangely across their features. Still another might have seemingly jerky and erratic motions, as if they were being drawn by an overheating video card.

Any reflective surface can carry their power, any reflective surface can carry their curse.

Bloodline Weakness: When a mortal can see an Angle-Daughter in a mirror their social rolls beyond the use of Intimidation and their Nightmare disciplines on them are reduced to a chance die. In line with the Nosferatu curse this does not affect touchstones.

Unique Discipline: Mirror-Math

• The Light Of Other Days: Roll Intelligence+Science+Mirror-Math. The vampire may see what the mirror has seen up to success number of days ago. On exceptional success take the Informed condition on something or someone displayed in the mirror.

•• Scratching the Surface: For one vitae an Angle-Daughter can channel injuries she would take unto a nearby reflection of hers. As long as the Angle-Daughter does not look upon that reflection, they do not experience those injuries. But if they do, they must roll Stamina+Resolve. On success only a little leaks through, one injury or condition is put onto the Angle Daughter. On Exceptional Success, nothing leaks through. And on failure, it all crashes down on them at once. If someone else destroys the mirror the wounded reflection is being stored in it represents an automatically failed Stamina + Resolve roll.

••• Just A Reflection: An angle-daughter can create illusions in any mirror she can see or a mirror she has seen in the last week using her Nightmare disciplines. These illusions can be seen by multiple targets. Can use The Light Of Other Days to remotely view what a mirror sees by spending 1 Vitae, as long as it qualifies for Just A Reflection.

•••• The Path of Bending Light: The Angle Daughter can spend one Vitae to travel between any two mirrors she's seen large enough to fit her shoulders and head through. She may not take other people or large objects with her. Only belongings on her person and small objects. If any mortal or lower BP vampire witnesses her enter either end, the mirror explodes catastrophically as the paradox collapses behind them. The storm deals 2L damage and may inflict appropriate tilts (such as blinded or arm or leg wrack) on the Angle-Daughter or anyone caught in the blast radius which is BP feet wide.

••••• Beyond the Edge: The Angle-Daughter may spend 3 Vitae and declare immediately they are entering a mirror or dragging the mirror-world into the "real" world. When they enter the illusion world of a mirror and they may stay therein for a number of hours equal to the Angle-Daughter's BP and take up to BP number of persons with her. Within the illusion world she may not leave the mirror's field of view (but may manipulate objects such as doors to change it). She may bring objects out - they function as they should (providing appropriate bonuses), but disintegrate into crumbled glass within a day.

When they drag the Mirror world into ours actions taken in or against the mirror will reflect into the "real" world, and vice versa. Mortals with three or less dots of Wits suffer a -BP penalty to all actions within the field of view of the mirror and suffer headaches, disorientation, and confusion as they find their ability to interact with the world "mirrored". Humans with 4 Wits or more, and supernaturals, find the space might less disorententing, but still difficult to navigate. They take half the Angle-Daughter's BP as an action penalty, rounded up. Failures in this area involving motion or manipulating the area are automatically upgraded into dramatic failures. Any Angle-Daughter however finds this state perfectly natural, and suffers no penalties whatsoever.

---

New draft of Angle-Daughters!

The Unlife Aquatic fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Aug 2, 2019

Dave Brookshaw
Jun 27, 2012

No Regrets

Ferrinus posted:

Oh, well, Requiem has one of those and at this point it’s highly detailed. When nWoD developers/writers/fans talk about no more metaplot they mean precisely books coming out which move time forward and change the setting from other books, not the general concept of the setting having a history.

And even then, it’s more of a guideline. Requiem does have a metaplot, so does Awakening - it’s just that “New Orleans got hit by a hurricane” and “the Neman got deposed and is now on the run” are so minor compared to OWoD’s serialisation that most people miss it’s even there.

It’s a total fallacy to say that nod game’s don’t have settings. Awakening has a rather more detailed setting than Ascension does by this point.

Edit: hells, Promethean has a metaplot. Grandfather Crow achieved the New Dawn in second Ed.

Dave Brookshaw fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Aug 1, 2019

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



The Unlife Aquatic posted:

New draft of Angle-Daughters!

I like all of this!

Also congratulations on not (ab)using any Alice in Wonderland looking-glass references.

The Unlife Aquatic
Jun 17, 2009

Here in my car
I feel safest of all
I can lock all my doors
It's the only way to live
In cars

moths posted:

I like all of this!

Also congratulations on not (ab)using any Alice in Wonderland looking-glass references.

Thank you! Feel free to use them as antagonists, NPCs, or as a basis for your own supercool mirror-jumping Nosferatu math nerd.

e: I imagine they're reclusive even by Nosferatu standards, preferring the world of mathematics to Kindred politics. They approach their work with almost monastic focus and dedication and typically Embrace humans who share their passion. (You can probably find one or two among the professors of any university with a strong math department) But those that do get involved tend to be valued for their unusual tricks and gift for surveillance and theft.

The Unlife Aquatic fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Aug 1, 2019

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

Entrapta fucking loves robots




Grimey Drawer
So here's a challenge for you: after the pack finishes off the chuds next chapter, they're going to have to go clear out what started as a minor able azlu infestation way back when we started. I've got two questions, the first is, what sort of freaky things can I do with these spiders to mess with the pack.

The azlu'sterritory is on the waterfront where the the trade ships used to come before another dockside neighborhood had it's ports refurbished and the recession forced the consolidation of trade. Now it's mostly abandoned warehouses and run down residential property.

Already having increase gauntlet, I will have essence costs increase near the main lair, and I designed the fight through the warehouse into the sewers and further into the Earth as a gauntlet to drain their essence and willpower and even keep a few stacks of lethal damage in their health tracks with traps and some gimmick spider troops.

But what to do outside of that? With the gauntlet being strengthened, and the infestation having been allowed to go on so long, there are now going to be multiple azlu and it makes sense that they'll go after the uratha.

Also:. I haven't created a goal for the original azlu since the story seed kept getting pushed aside. Aside from strengthening the gauntlet, what could their plan be?

Chernobyl Peace Prize
May 7, 2007

Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Unless you've already got the plan for the back end sketched out already, instead of asking what their plan is, ask what they were trying to strengthen the Gauntlet to hold back. And after they've been defeated, probably decisively and potentially explosively, what's breaking through to chase the pack back out of the place they just fought their way into?

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Dave Brookshaw posted:

Edit: hells, Promethean has a metaplot. Grandfather Crow achieved the New Dawn in second Ed.

I had missed that and that's the most :unsmith: thing I've heard in a while.

Good ol' crow guy.

Did he become a human or a crow?

Soonmot
Dec 19, 2002

Entrapta fucking loves robots




Grimey Drawer

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

Unless you've already got the plan for the back end sketched out already, instead of asking what their plan is, ask what they were trying to strengthen the Gauntlet to hold back. And after they've been defeated, probably decisively and potentially explosively, what's breaking through to chase the pack back out of the place they just fought their way into?

I've got this throughline of, about a century ago when the city was doing well, there was a cross splat group called The Woven Band. This group did *~*something*~* to the spirit of the city that killed many of the members and allowed the pure to take control of the city and most of the surrounding area.

That said, I didn't want to directly tie this in because the search for the spirit of Santa Sangre and what the Woven Band did is basically the end point of the chronicle.

Three of the pack are itheuars so a pissed off brood of spirits is right up their alley, but what ties that to the azlu? Something from the void? (Currently reading the night horror book that just dropped). Some sort of deep see Cthulhu from the gulf of Mexico?

nofather
Aug 15, 2014

Soonmot posted:

Also:. I haven't created a goal for the original azlu since the story seed kept getting pushed aside. Aside from strengthening the gauntlet, what could their plan be?

If it's on the waterfront and you don't mind implying or leading to a larger scale situation (which, to be fair, could just mean that more azlu come at some point) you could have some azlu who were trying to avoid the Uratha situation entirely by working on the Gauntlet over the sea or waterways. It would be much more difficult for Uratha to notice this generally unless you had seagoing ones and a good alliance with waterborne spirits. Since the waterfront is now mostly abandoned, some of their works might be easing away, which could lead to the release of things that were caught up in their webs. Old spirits that fought the good fight, allies to the azlu who were screwed over by them. Maybe a planetary angel got caught in them and decided to make the place home, now resenting having to move. Basically since azlu can be pretty smart they could be using their webs to hold monsters they wouldn't want to fight but might not want to completely eliminate, since they could contain them until the time is right and the Uratha are after them.

There's some cool hints of sea stuff in the 2e core book (notably in the Bristol hunting ground, which has the Kraken idigam). Shunned has the lamprey hosts, powerful members of which might be locked away.

And obviously in an area mostly abandoned by humanity azlu themselves have time to make themselves fat and safe though it sounds like you've got the encounters planned really well already.

MoonKnight
Jul 14, 2018

Gobbeldygook posted:

That V5's basic combat mechanics require a developer Q&A and has open questions is an incredible red flag.

also re: linear char gen/geometric advancement discussion, another way to resolve it is to cut out the middleman and just directly award dots to the players. You could do so equally and arbitrarily("Background dot for everyone!"), randomly ("I roll the dice and...Chart says everyone gets a skill dot"), on a pattern ("Everyone got a background dot last time, so this time everyone gets a skill dot, and next time we advanced everyone will get a supernatural power dot"), or a bidding system ("There is a background dot, two skill dots, and a supernatural power dot up for auction").

Eh. Outside of the lovely example, everything else is pretty straightforward, and a lot of the vagueness is intentional to allow some ST wiggle room. A lot of the questions that were posed to the dev were due to...
1. The mad rush for the first run of the corebook to hit Gencon that did leave some things unfinished and requiring errata.
2. The book not repeating rules, so people not taking the book as a 'whole' product and thinking that because, for example, that you can't spend WP on a tracker roll wasn't repeated when it talked about tracker rolls for, say, diablerie, that it needed clarification.
and
3. WoD rules lawyers who, rather than understand that it's left somewhat open for the ST to do what fits their narrative, like most things in the game, they have to have everything spelled out for them.

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012
Rule lawyers are the worst

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011

#mood
This is the deliberation room in Twelve Angry Nerds. None of us are free of sin.

Oberst
May 24, 2010

Fertilizing threads since 2010

Ferrinus posted:

You have definitely written more than me on the topic, but you also compulsively hit the post button between every few sentences. Immediately resorting to ridiculous lies and exaggerations to pretend an obvious problem doesn’t exist is a sign of being extremely emotionally invested and defensive.

V5 has some novel mechanics and I appreciate that its combat system is simpler than Requiem 2E’s (but not than 1E’s, especially given all the mistakes and ambiguities that call for on the spot adjudication that neither 1E or 2E’s rules need) but its setting is much worse and less customizable and a lot of the wheels it reinvents don’t really need to be. Like, Hunger is cute but you could just do the same thing with Vitae without the clumsy construction of rolling to Rouse twice but taking the best result.

Nice meltdown

Roll frenzy

Oberst
May 24, 2010

Fertilizing threads since 2010
Imagine wanting vitae over hunger lmao

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Oberst
May 24, 2010

Fertilizing threads since 2010
Hunger is so elegant and awesome in game. So so much better than spending mana

Oberst
May 24, 2010

Fertilizing threads since 2010

WampaLord posted:

I mean the setting backstory, like in my original Masquerade game we weren't waiting around for books to get released to tell us the updates to the metaplot, I just mean the entire idea of "this is the greater world of Kindred that the characters un-live in"

Caine mythos is probably a better term than metaplot for this. Olds who desperately lapped up metaplot updates in then 90s are terrible

This is actually what V20 does perfectly. Metaplot agnostic

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012
sir you could have made all those posts in one posts

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Oberst posted:

Imagine wanting vitae over hunger lmao
Are you talking to anyone in particular or just trying to fill up the thread?

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011

#mood
Oberst if you're such a good ST would you mind posting some content to the thread? story ideas, plot hooks, stuff you've accomplished lately in game?

Oberst
May 24, 2010

Fertilizing threads since 2010

PHIZ KALIFA posted:

Oberst if you're such a good ST would you mind posting some content to the thread? story ideas, plot hooks, stuff you've accomplished lately in game?

I'd thought someone would never ask!

Yes I will summarize my yearlong v20 campaign that is quickly coming to a close. Tomorrow is the likely final battle and I have 2 epilogue sessions planned

Chronicle name: A Real Pain in the Neck

Theme: Hunt or Be Hunted

Main villain: Redlisters including the legendary Christopher Barrow

Final summary to be written

Oberst fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Aug 2, 2019

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011

#mood
cool i hope you have fun being alone with your imagination and your problems and nobody else

because of your shitposts





lmao got em

Oberst
May 24, 2010

Fertilizing threads since 2010
gently caress!

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Oberst
May 24, 2010

Fertilizing threads since 2010
Consider this a dot in enemy gained

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