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Wow that Ooblets dev comes across as a huge twat
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Aug 2, 2019 15:28
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zer0spunk posted:Reasons why EGS doesn't invoke any particular response from me one way or the other: Personally I'm ok with them funding timed exclusives and giving indie devs the funding to be relatively safe, but I'm still going to wait out the exclusivity. That way Epic are throwing Fortnite money at devs who need it while getting no benefit in return; I can wait.
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Aug 2, 2019 15:31
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zer0spunk posted:This industry is horrible at PR. "Game dev reacts in a completely insane manner to criticism on public forum" is like so common at this point that I'm never surprised anymore. I blame Phil Fish for normalizing being an abusive twat to your audience. It's not PR, it's not being an rear end in a top hat. Gamedev is such a lovely, nerve-wrecking job that it literally breaks peoples' brains. We've had people on these dead gay forums who got their game kickstarted and then defended anticonsumer KS practices like that Shenmue dlc fiasco.
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Aug 2, 2019 15:32
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zer0spunk posted:This industry is horrible at PR. "Game dev reacts in a completely insane manner to criticism on public forum" is like so common at this point that I'm never surprised anymore. I blame Phil Fish for normalizing being an abusive twat to your audience. To their credit, the Industries of Titan devs were trying to take a friendly approach to announcing that they'd be an EGS exclusive - starting that they did, in fact, take the deal because they needed the cash. They were even apologizing to the people freaking out in the Community Hub comments and Steam forums, and from what I saw were just avoiding hostility or becoming defensive stating for the most part "we're sorry you feel that way, hopefully you'll change your mind later". I removed the game from my wishlist and haven't looked back since so I don't know what's gone on in the meantime. So it looks like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. But being a colossal dipshit isn't going to win you any favours - most games that go EGS exclusive will probably just vanish after a time and maybe see the devs try and resurrect it later on Steam. If Sweetcheeks and his fat sacks of cash aren't there for their next release they'll be stuck trying to market the game as "from the creators of that other game you've never heard of" before going under. These guys though? The next game they make, even after this has all blown over, will never be able to escape the reputation they've created because some one who remembers will always come back and remind people of it, starting the drama all over again. So have fun. Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Aug 2, 2019 |
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Aug 2, 2019 15:34
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Nah. Platform exclusives are to capture the initial high demand. By a year later, you're on the tail of most games' revenue. Sure, which is why extending the deal would cost less.
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Aug 2, 2019 15:37
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I think there's some sort of beautiful irony in the biggest threat to Steam comes from a company copying Valve's strategy to a tee- Be a moderately successful game dev that creates an all-ages friendly version of the current gaming trend which then rockets you to insane margins aka Fortnite/TF2. You can't even be mad at it...I'm going to laugh when the next trend is like fps hide and seek and Starbreeze makes a cartoony hit and opens Payday Mall or whatever as the next EGS. e: the parallels are kinda wild...half life/unreal, unreal engine as a product/source as a product, etc etc zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Aug 2, 2019 |
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Aug 2, 2019 15:40
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zer0spunk posted:But...it is? If your examples of “games that wouldn’t exist” are “games you could hold in your hands and play before the epic game store existed,” maybe we need to establish your English speaking proficiency before continuing
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Aug 2, 2019 15:42
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El_Elegante posted:If your examples of “games that wouldn’t exist” are “games you could hold in your hands and play before the epic game store existed,” maybe we need to establish your English speaking proficiency before continuing Since being a pedantic rear end in a top hat is the route you chose..yeah, those PC GAMES didn't exist before being funded to come to pc, he said, in the STEAM thread..a platform that only exists on PC. Did that work for you? 
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Aug 2, 2019 15:44
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Even then, Sony has a streaming service to let you play PlayStation exclusives on pc
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Aug 2, 2019 15:45
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Psychotic Weasel posted:But being a colossal dipshit isn't going to win you any favours - most games that go EGS exclusive will probably just vanish after a time and maybe see the devs try and resurrect it later on Steam. If Sweetcheeks and his fat sacks of cash aren't there for their next release they'll be stuck trying to market the game as "from the creators of that other game you've never heard of" before going under. These guys though? The next game they make, even after this has all blown over, will never be able to escape the reputation they've created because some one who remembers will always come back and remind people of it, starting the drama all over again. So have fun. It would be interesting to see some quantitative research on the effect of, I guess "social media drama" or "controversy" on indie games, because while I'm always suspicious of that kind of thing really having a noteworthy impact, maybe it may happen in games where the sales volumes are lower and word of mouth is a key factor. Like if you burn your bridges like this, you reduce the odds of becoming a sleeper hit, but on the other hand that's a massive gamble compared to the sure thing of taking the money and running. However, why not have the best of both worlds - take the money without the "go worry about climate change instead" post.
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Aug 2, 2019 15:46
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El_Elegante posted:Even then, Sony has a streaming service to let you play PlayStation exclusives on pc Really stretching to disprove the point I made for..whatever reason. Sure, let's say playing at 720p30 streaming compressed with input lag is the same thing as a native port. You seem to really want to hate EGS so, enjoy that.
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Aug 2, 2019 15:47
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El_Elegante posted:Even then, Sony has a streaming service to let you play PlayStation exclusives on pc And it sucks supermassive balls
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Aug 2, 2019 15:51
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The EGS seems like a pretty safe and secure platform to buy my games from.  I'm fine with Epic paying devs a lump sum for a guaranteed amount of sales, that's great for as long as it's sustainable. But, the real question is what happens after the exclusivity runs out? Will the devs essentially just use the EGS as a one year "early access/beta test" period or actually work to make a complete game during that time? What will re-launches look like on other platforms? How will the EGS fare once their timed exclusives actually all run out? Will the EGS ever actually implement basic features that were in the Steam storefront not long after it came out because they keep missing road map goals... and not even Randy Pitchford's holy grail Borderlands 3 is enough to kick them into high gear.  I don't know, I just don't trust their storefront enough to want to buy anything from them and I'd rather not get sucked into any potential hassles that come with a store with lax security features.
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Aug 2, 2019 15:52
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So we’ve gone from games that wouldn’t exist, to games that wouldn’t exist on pc, to games that wouldn’t exist on pc in HD. How much further can those goalposts go?
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Aug 2, 2019 15:52
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El_Elegante posted:So we’ve gone from games that wouldn’t exist, to games that wouldn’t exist on pc, to games that wouldn’t exist on pc in HD. How much further can those goalposts go?  keep tryin' you're almost there!
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Aug 2, 2019 15:54
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Sulphagnist posted:It would be interesting to see some quantitative research on the effect of, I guess "social media drama" or "controversy" on indie games, because while I'm always suspicious of that kind of thing really having a noteworthy impact, maybe it may happen in games where the sales volumes are lower and word of mouth is a key factor. Like if you burn your bridges like this, you reduce the odds of becoming a sleeper hit, but on the other hand that's a massive gamble compared to the sure thing of taking the money and running. However, why not have the best of both worlds - take the money without the "go worry about climate change instead" post. Acting like a sociopath is a bad idea for indie creators because one of the intrinsic values of the (let's say) artistic independence is the direct contact with audience, without going through publishers or PR. It's one of the reasons I'll always buy stuff from Spiderweb Soft., Matt Thorston, Tom Francis, etc. - all of those guys engage their audience and speak through their games. There's this sense of knowing the artist, however stupid that may sound. Alienating your audience in a market as volatile and the field so niche as indie games is a ticket to failure. Black Griffon posted:supermassive balls Do not doxx me
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Aug 2, 2019 15:56
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Deakul posted:The EGS seems like a pretty safe and secure platform to buy my games from. That said, I'm a pretty patient guy. Epic hasn't snagged anything I had my eye on yet, but if they did, I'd wait it out. *In a vacuum, at least; sniping pre-funded Kickstarter campaigns is kinda scummy, though that's not what happened here. Here it's just the devs being self-sabotaging.
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Aug 2, 2019 16:13
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Look man he's not wrong. I guess if you'd said "helped fund the porting of console games that might not have gotten a port", but even that's doubtful with the general ramping up of port-jobs across the industry. I mean, was anyone expecting Octopath Traveler, a loving SWITCH game no less, from ever getting a port? It feels like pretty much every major release that isn't somehow tied at a conceptual first-party level with a console is getting a port these days, and even old console-exclusive series like Final Fantasy are getting their entire back-catalogue ported.  I'll say this much, I'm happy Supergiant Games got some of that Epic cash though, idk how well Pyre did for them and so far SG are doing what I feel like is the most uncriticisable take on a EGS exclusivity deal. Didn't generate that much ill will either.
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Aug 2, 2019 16:15
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My only real problem with is EGS is the lousy storefront. Can't epic use a pittance of the millions of dollars they reserve for buying exclusivity rights to instead make a launcher that isn't offensively dogshit in functionality compared to its biggest competitor? Doesn't make any sense to me.
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Aug 2, 2019 16:24
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ah_shit_here_we_go_again.wmv edit: butts 
Black Griffon fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Aug 2, 2019 |
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Aug 2, 2019 16:26
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The most appropriate response to that Ooblets post (and the Discord logs) is "alright, I get your point, but theres no need to be such a dick about it".
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Aug 2, 2019 16:29
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Ooblets looks awesome, I hadn't heard of it before today.
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Aug 2, 2019 16:30
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Actually, nix that last bit, or part of it. They did get the Outer Worlds, though I'll still wait 'em out, which is probably the better choice for that style of game anyway (bugs and whatnot).
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Aug 2, 2019 16:33
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Outer Wilds looks interesting, I'll have to check it out next year
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Aug 2, 2019 16:36
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Broken Cog posted:But Baba is You is on Steam? I actually do think Outer Wilds is better than Baba is You
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Aug 2, 2019 16:42
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Some of the folks screeching about EGS make me second-guess my stance on it, but I can't support what Epic is doing. I'm concerned about what happens to these developers that take the money, burn their PR, and then get left in the cold if Epic decides not to offer the same deal for their next game. I'm concerned about what happens if a dependency builds up in the indie community on Epic support only for them to shut it down. And I'm concerned at how all of their business practices are specifically targeted at consuming and replacing Steam, including their few good ideas like higher revenue splits for devs. That won't solve any of the problems Steam caused, and it won't grow or strengthen the industry in any way. It's not a positive force for anyone except developers taking their deals, and I'm not convinced it's a wise move in the long term. Also I have a real reason to hate their lack of community features, because without Steam's (admittedly terrible) review and curation systems I would have a fraction of the audience I do now. So yeah, I'll take "poorly designed but functional" over "actively hostile to what I do". Also also, I played Monster Prom!    Despite carefully skipping around the edges of the visual novel genre, I’ve found a lot to like in the ones I’ve played. It’s certainly because my experiences are with titles like Long Live the Queen and Monster Loves You!, titles that are about as big on game mechanics as they are on evocative writing. Monster Prom is snuggled right in with this crowd, a bold explosion of colorful characters and preposterous prose. It’s built for a lot of things most visual novels aren’t, mainly short sessions and multiplayer, and while I can’t tell you much about the latter I’m definitely a fan of the former. Ah, if only the drama of my actual prom experiences could fit into an hour or less… The school year is winding down at Spooky High, the premier learning institution for late adolescents, and Monster Prom looms large on the horizon. You, in the form of one of four adorably spooky monsters, must use these waning weeks to woo the being of your dreams and make that final night one to remember. A lot can happen in just a few weeks though, and you’ll need to find solutions that favor your skills to overcome transformative spells, demonic raves, and fatal benders to name a few. If you play your cards right you’ll win the attentions of your boo for the big night, and if you go the extra mile you might just get a little more for your trouble. Monster Prom opens with you selecting your avatar from the likes of a chill zombie, quiet shadow boy, and Frankestinian prep girl, and then taking one of those idiot magazine quizzes about yourself. Here you may have to explain how to handle an awkward situation, who your hero is, or what kind of animal you’d choose to have sex with. These questions determine your starting stats, evocative figures like Smarts and Boldness, which can also be raised or sapped as you make decisions like sticking your butt in a plate of lasagna, doing lines of cocaine not fully grounded in this reality, and dancing hard enough to turn into a sentient cloud of locusts. If I’ve got your attention now, I’d like to assure you that I’ve never played another game that was so relentlessly wild with its writing without tipping over into being cringeworthy. Every week gives you the chance to visit two locations on campus, each helping to grow your base stats, and then facing you with an absurd situation at that location. Maybe the party ghost and the jock werewolf are trying to come up with an extinction-level prank. Maybe the hipster vampire and rich girl gorgon want to rip someone’s fashion, literally. Whatever it is, it’s going to be raunchy, hilarious, and perfect for a game about hooking up with merpeople and demons. You even get to pick what tables to eat lunch at, and can sit with the weirdo coven or space prince if you want. The goal is to impress the object of your affection by the time prom hits, and while the game gives you plenty of chances (it’s good at noticing who you like), those chances are going to be like coin tosses until you understand how the game works. Some binary choices are simply between supporting two characters and winning the affections of one. But others are between two options with hidden stat checks, and you might not have the Charm or Fun to pull them off. Failure can sap your stats further, and set back even the best plans. Beyond scoring your nightmare date there are also secret endings that involve solving a sort of side quest (and picking up items from the shop, requiring both precious time and money), and failing any part of that chain can end that aspiration in a hurry. But Monster Prom is very much the kind of game that rewards success, failure, or random clicking with loads of absurdity and surprises. There are literally hundreds of events and thousands of outcomes to your adventures, and you can experience it all in short games of 30 minutes or longer runs of an hour or so. It’s all presented in gorgeous, detailed art that oozes personality and a bangin’ soundtrack of homages to garage rock and oldies, as well as some cute voiceover work for all the main characters. And this isn’t even touching the multiplayer component, where you can fight with your friends over the affections of mermaid princesses. There’s more than enough here for fans of hilarious misadventures, but really, who doesn’t want the chance to experience prom again with a ghost or a gorgon?
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Aug 2, 2019 16:47
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Bad Seafood posted:Yeah, this is more or less what it comes down to for me. I don't have any personal beef with Epic like I do with EA or Ubisoft, and on paper this isn't necessarily* any different than a console-based publisher fronting a developer some cash in exchange for (temporary, in this case) distribution rights, but I don't trust Epic with my information like I do Steam, and they're a long way off from earning that trust.  We don't know yet.
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Aug 2, 2019 16:52
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Too Shy Guy posted:Some of the folks screeching about EGS make me second-guess my stance on it, but I can't support what Epic is doing. I'm concerned about what happens to these developers that take the money, burn their PR, and then get left in the cold if Epic decides not to offer the same deal for their next game. I'm concerned about what happens if a dependency builds up in the indie community on Epic support only for them to shut it down. And I'm concerned at how all of their business practices are specifically targeted at consuming and replacing Steam, including their few good ideas like higher revenue splits for devs. That won't solve any of the problems Steam caused, and it won't grow or strengthen the industry in any way. It's not a positive force for anyone except developers taking their deals, and I'm not convinced it's a wise move in the long term. I genuinely don't know how much goodwill Epic exclusives will burn, outside Steam grognards.
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Aug 2, 2019 17:08
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Kin posted:Literally the exact same issues I had with Metro Exodus. Yeah, I'm using it because I bought a new ryzen and it came with the 3 free months of game pass. Adding on the extra month from "using" autobilling and paying a dollar for one more month plus upgrade to ultimate, I have game pass through january or so. Did you end up redownloading that Metro? I'm able to start up Gears and at least start up a new campaign but I'm kinda worried that its just gonna take a poo poo at some point if it in fact did not download all the files.
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Aug 2, 2019 17:14
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Zereth posted:Another thing is: what happens when a game is permanently removed from sale on the Epic Store? Do you get to keep it in your library like you do steam, or is it like itunes where it's "gently caress you"? There are other issues with Epic, bigger elephants in the room, but as a consumer first, I've already seen enough on my end to be wary of them. I think Steam would do well to face some healthy competition, but Epic doesn't strike me as particularly healthy...with the exception of their pocketbook.
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Aug 2, 2019 17:17
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Arsenic Lupin posted:This argument seems weird to me. If I take the up-front money and get a higher cut, I am better able to sustain my team for the immediate future. If I can't pay their salaries, then I don't get the chance to develop goodwill. The hypothetical future doesn't weigh against the immediate present. If Epic pulls the launcher and the project, devs have still gotten up-front money that is no different from Kickstarter money, except with no need to develop add-ons to boost patrons. Thing is, none of these high-profile Epic exclusives people are getting riled up about are in this situation. None of them need this money to survive, and all of them have existing communities they're pissing off. Taking the money safeguards them against failure with their first project (which still would have come out without the deal), but nobody knows where that leaves them for the future. Honestly I think games like Ooblets and Outer Wilds would have done better without their deals, both in the short and the long term, but it's going to be years before we see the full ramifications of this. A lot of it does depend on the actual PR impact these moves have, and again, we won't know that for a long time. I still think Epic is mucking up enough stuff with their business practices to be against them even if the developers aren't taking hits for them.
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Aug 2, 2019 17:20
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Sometimes I want to check when is the next Hades update, then get immediately pissed because there are no official newsfeed/forum and only way to check is to open the game, then Epic launcher wants me to validate my IP through e-mail but their mail doesn't come instantly like they are supposed to. 30 seconds later I say "gently caress this" then forget about Hades
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Aug 2, 2019 17:24
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The Church in the Darkness just dropped!
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Aug 2, 2019 17:27
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Too Shy Guy posted:Thing is, none of these high-profile Epic exclusives people are getting riled up about are in this situation. None of them need this money to survive, and all of them have existing communities they're pissing off. Taking the money safeguards them against failure with their first project (which still would have come out without the deal), but nobody knows where that leaves them for the future. Honestly I think games like Ooblets and Outer Wilds would have done better without their deals, both in the short and the long term, but it's going to be years before we see the full ramifications of this.
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Aug 2, 2019 17:28
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:Yeah, I'm using it because I bought a new ryzen and it came with the 3 free months of game pass. Adding on the extra month from "using" autobilling and paying a dollar for one more month plus upgrade to ultimate, I have game pass through january or so. Nah, it's fully downloaded. I only had to redownload it when it froze during my first attempt. Instead of starting where it left off, it went back to 0. :/
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Aug 2, 2019 17:36
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StrixNebulosa posted:The Church in the Darkness just dropped! Whoa, haven't heard of this game but it looks neat. You gonna test the waters for the rest of us?
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Aug 2, 2019 17:39
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drat horror queefs posted:My only real problem with is EGS is the lousy storefront. Can't epic use a pittance of the millions of dollars they reserve for buying exclusivity rights to instead make a launcher that isn't offensively dogshit in functionality compared to its biggest competitor? Doesn't make any sense to me. 
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Aug 2, 2019 17:45
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Ooblets is the studio's first game. It's not even in Early Access yet. And the devs have said, yes, they do need the money to live, because their sole developer is overwhelmed. Ooblets is a bad example of what you're talking about.
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Aug 2, 2019 17:45
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zer0spunk posted:But...it is? Nah, QD just signed the same 1-year exclusivity deal everyone else has, their PC ports would still exist without Epic: https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/03/20/quantic-dream-epic-games-store-partner-to-release-detroit-heavy-rain-beyond-two-souls-on-pc quote:The deal overall marks an important move for Quantic Dream following the company's announcement earlier this year that it would no longer be developing solely for PlayStation platforms. de Fondaumiere told IGN that Quantic Dream was "establishing our publishing strategy" when they learned of Epic Games' store.
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Aug 2, 2019 17:49
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Terminally Bored posted:I was shittalking steam's visibility issues but wow, Outer Wilds went over like a fart in a church. The exclusivity might've brought the devs some money but literally no one is talking about their game. Hell, I forgot about it completely I tried Outer Wilds is a genuinely GOTY-level game and whatever the rights and wrongs of EGS, it's a shame a bunch of people won't play it. I actually think the best play for them isn't even Steam - it would be to go multi-platform, if they could get it on Switch or PS4 I think it would be a big hit. Unfortunately it's stuck on Xbox One.
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Aug 2, 2019 18:18
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playing it at my friend's house