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536 posted:Lol the youtube guy isn't allowed to film anymore in venezuela. I wonder why when obviously everything is fine ? No one said everything is fine. How can it be fine when the most powerful country in the world is waging economic and espionage based war on it?
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Aug 3, 2019 15:47
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Regarde Aduck posted:No one said everything is fine. How can it be fine when the most powerful country in the world is waging economic and espionage based war on it? Just a few months ago maduro literally said everything is fine. There isn't even a food crisis
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Aug 3, 2019 16:44
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This thread really does just go in circles.
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Aug 3, 2019 17:11
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An interesting article about dollarization in the Venezuelan economy and the collapse of currency controls. The Venezuelan government is no longer able or willing to enforce their currency control scheme. It is not clear if this is the intentional result of policy decisions or just a product of the general breakdown in government/the economic system. Savage capitalism’ takes hold in crisis-hit Venezuela quote:business people in Venezuela say the economic crisis in the South American nation has hastened moves by President Nicolás Maduro’s government away from the full-blooded socialism of his predecessor Hugo Chávez towards a freer market. In other news, the IMF is now predicting that the Venezuelan economy will contract by 35% in 2019. If that prediction bears out, it will mean the Venezuelan economy will have contracted by over 60% since 2013. Barring sanctions relief, I wonder if dollarization and an increase in remittances will start to stabilize the economy in the near future.
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Aug 3, 2019 18:35
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Regarde Aduck posted:No one said everything is fine. How can it be fine when the most powerful country in the world is waging economic and espionage based war on it? There's a video from that same guy that shows how gasoline in the country is free, yet people have to pack jerry cans with them if they travel outside of Caracas because there's no guarantee whatsoever that there'll be gasoline outside of the capital. What do you think of that? Does that sound rational to you? Is it fault of the US that this policy was implemented? punk rebel ecks posted:This thread really does just go in circles. The reason being that these kind of posters have literally no other talking points other than sanctions, and never, not once, seem to be willing to consider the possibility of the Venezuelan economic collapse being endogenous.
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Aug 3, 2019 23:55
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Squalid posted:An interesting article about dollarization in the Venezuelan economy and the collapse of currency controls. The Venezuelan government is no longer able or willing to enforce their currency control scheme. It is not clear if this is the intentional result of policy decisions or just a product of the general breakdown in government/the economic system. What’s interesting to me is how commonly the dollar is used as a daily currency even in countries that are antagonistic to the US, and not just client states like Panama. I’m still always surprised when I travel how important USD is even in countries like Bolivia or Lebanon or even Cuba. Lebanon uses the dollar alongside their pound, fully usable normally in the streets and it comes out of normal Lebanese ATMs, which seems to have done a wonder for its currency stability. I wonder if a similar experience is why the New New Bolivar has been relatively stable for the last six months. OTOH Im sure some official has noted that stability and is trying to figure out how they can copy the Zimbabwean scheme of zollars to scam people out of their money. E: meanwhile the euro is only used for stabilizing the CFA, as it has done for decades, with no uptick at all Saladman fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Aug 4, 2019 |
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Aug 4, 2019 00:07
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still chuckling when i think of how guaido was running a con the whole time to get hotel bills and airfare out of the CIA
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Aug 4, 2019 01:29
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fnox posted:The reason being that these kind of posters have literally no other talking points other than sanctions, and never, not once, seem to be willing to consider the possibility of the Venezuelan economic collapse being endogenous. Hey, hey, psst. It goes both ways.
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Aug 4, 2019 05:35
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Hey, hey, psst. Really now? The entire basis of my thesis is that the Venezuelan government had more than enough agency to ruin the economy by themselves, and that it was specific policies, enacted WAY before the 2017 sanctions. I've mentioned specific problems with the Mark Weisbrot report claiming that the sanctions have lead to 40000 deaths, where it is correlating an increase in mortality in the country between 2017-2018 with the effects of the sanctions, ignoring other causes such as the government killing thousands of people in that same period for "resisting arrest". I've mentioned specific problems with Mark Weisbrot himself including his previous horrendous analysis that suggested in 2013 that there wouldn't be a Venezuelan economic crisis because the Bolivarian government's policies were solid, this being a year before the crisis really took off. I've brought up a timeline showing specific events that triggered the crisis, including stuff like: the Ley de Precios Justos enacted very early in the Maduro presidency which immediately led to shortages, the oil subsidy that is so horrendously distorted it makes any and all petrol consumption in the country an absolute loss to the state (This alone accounts for a loss of $18bn in oil revenues), the rampant corruption that has led to billion dollar infrastructure projects never being completed leading to a total collapse of all public services, the widespread crime due to the government's inability to target corruption among its ranks or within police institutions, the constant expropriation and subsequent destruction of whatever local production existed, the way that all other sectors of the economy are knee-capped by the currency control scheme and its nonsense. You can demonstrate that the effects of sanctions are unrelated to those actions Maduro did that caused the crisis, and whatever effects the sanctions have, they're second fiddle to these disastrous actions. The only reason why we get so many drive by posters saying "but sanctions" is due to people being very quick to outrage whenever you hear about the US doing absolutely anything in Latin America. And of course, that comes from a rational point of view, America's effect on Latin American politics has been largely noxious, loving Pinochet is one example of it. What is irrational is believing that the Venezuelan government has had no hand in causing the crisis, or that it is solely caused by sanctions when the problems started 5 years prior. You can even see in Indigo Traveller's Venezuela videos that the country has no problem whatsoever importing food, the reason people are starving is because the government has made them so poor they can't afford food and instead have to rely on handouts from the government, and it was only through the government in the form of CLAP boxes because Maduro wasn't allowing aid to enter the country until a couple months back. Similarly, the problem with pushing for sanctions to be removed is what would happen immediately afterwards. If the sanctions are removed, it won't suddenly end starvation, shortages and poverty. What will happen is that the already demonstratively incompetent, short sighted and corrupt government of Maduro will regain the ability to refinance their debt using the US financial system, which will lead to them selling as many state assets as they can to pay off debtors, as they were about to do before the sanctions were put in place. What you'll get is the world's first tankie-approved neoliberal hell: virtually indistinguishable from a capitalist nightmare of a ruling upper class living large having to do no work whatsoever while everyone else starves, but with enough anti-imperialist rhetoric to warrant joyous retweets of propaganda by the ilk of the CSPAM thread. fnox fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Aug 4, 2019 |
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Aug 4, 2019 12:40
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President Donald Trump on Monday announced the US would expand its existing sanctions against Venezuela with an executive order to impose a total economic embargo against the country. Up next: blockade
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Aug 6, 2019 03:38
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What an amazing post to cap that sanctions debate. Guess the discussion can move forward!
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Aug 6, 2019 04:10
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How a poor area supermarket keeps their shelves stocked (hint : they dont) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHZIevN7gp0&t=963s
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Aug 6, 2019 15:59
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drat who could have predicted this https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1158949874227920896
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Aug 7, 2019 19:51
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You're citing a Gray Zone Project writer selectively reinterpreting a source again, in the same abusive ways as before: attributing all economic harm in Venezuela to the US and pretending the Venezuelan opposition are US puppets.
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Aug 7, 2019 20:01
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nice deflection to avoid the fact bolton isn't interested in an election in venezuela despite the harm not doing so might cause pretty monstrous of you frankly
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Aug 7, 2019 20:14
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Jose posted:nice deflection to avoid the fact bolton isn't interested in an election in venezuela despite the harm not doing so might cause So you think this is the first time peace talks have happened between the government and the opposition? Because that has been the main demand that the opposition has put forward and each time the government refuses to even entertain the idea that people should not be arbitrarily arrested and tortured I presume you know this in your status as a 24hr subject matter expert, correct?
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Aug 7, 2019 20:31
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Like dude, anyone here would have told you talks would be good but they would go nowhere, as always. What the gently caress, my man? As a white middle class gringo you’re supposed to be an expert on all things Latin American
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Aug 7, 2019 20:35
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Furia posted:Like dude, anyone here would have told you talks would be good but they would go nowhere, as always. What the gently caress, my man? As a white middle class gringo you’re supposed to be an expert on all things Latin American Jose is British.
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Aug 7, 2019 20:37
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Furia posted:So you think this is the first time peace talks have happened between the government and the opposition? Because that has been the main demand that the opposition has put forward and each time the government refuses to even entertain the idea that people should not be arbitrarily arrested and tortured Its really hard to read all the sentences in that first tweet I admit but if you notice its John Bolton saying that no elections are happening if Maduro doesn't step down. An entirely reasonable thing to expect and not at all John Bolton deliberately sabotaging any negotiations because he's desperate to cause massive amounts of death like with the Iraq war he was heavily involved with and how horny he is for war with Iran
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Aug 7, 2019 20:41
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Imagine carrying water for john bolton lol
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Aug 7, 2019 20:41
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Jose posted:Imagine carrying water for john bolton lol I’m not though...? Saying that the government won’t agree to elections is a perfectly reasonable statement. It’s the one we have witnessed happening over what, a decade now?
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Aug 7, 2019 20:44
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Furia posted:I’m not though...? AH so you've meant the US government this entire time then. Apologies
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Aug 7, 2019 20:45
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Oh poo poo, did I just get owned on-line? gently caress. Good job refusing to even acknowledge the torture currently happening under Maduro, btw
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Aug 7, 2019 20:46
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OJ MIST 2 THE DICK posted:Jose is British.
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Aug 7, 2019 20:57
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Furia posted:Oh poo poo, did I just get owned on-line? gently caress. when Abrams wants your opinion, he will tell you what it is, Furia. please wait until such time as he believes you are ready for democracy to attempt to express it. the penalties for doing otherwise are quite harsh.
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Aug 7, 2019 21:06
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I hate this idea of linking tweets of someone selectively reading a source. Like, this is awfully manipulative, why can't you just link the actual article? Are you afraid of the context proving you wrong? Here's the article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/venezuelans-brace-for-pain-from-u-s-sanctions-against-maduro-11565131653 In any case, the problem with the tweet is the word "cause", which comes back again to this loving idiotic circular argument where Maduro had no hand in the country collapsing when even the article itself states otherwise. In any case, Bolton is actually right (regardless of him being an actual demon) with what he's saying, Maduro has done this before with negotiations with the opposition, in all years prior. Maduro will not agree to an election that he will lose, the idea of that is ridiculous and contradicts the lengths he's gone through to legitimize his rule. And Guaido plus the opposition leadership need to step the gently caress up. Guaido should be gone, in my opinion, even if constitutionally there aren't any other feasible avenues for succession, considering they're reaching the tail end of the National Assembly's 5 year period.
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Aug 7, 2019 21:07
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It's so sad to see the Wall Street Journal is carrying water for Maduro by quoting an analyst from the Russian controlled International Crisis Group, who inexplicably says that Bolton seems to be intentionally sabotaging the negotiations. I wonder what insane line of reasoning could lie behind such an absurd statement.
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Aug 7, 2019 21:11
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fnox posted:I hate this idea of linking tweets of someone selectively reading a source. Like, this is awfully manipulative, why can't you just link the actual article? Are you afraid of the context proving you wrong? hey fnox, i clicked your link, but the only context it gives is 2 paragraphs, which is even less than the image you're angry about 
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Aug 7, 2019 22:05
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Discendo Vox posted:You're citing a Gray Zone Project writer selectively reinterpreting a source again, in the same abusive ways as before: attributing all economic harm in Venezuela to the US and pretending the Venezuelan opposition are US puppets. Jose posted:Imagine carrying water for john bolton lol
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Aug 8, 2019 19:40
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Reminder that the Venezuelan regime controls literal death squads which have been responsible for more targeted political executions in the last year than Pinochet was in his lifetime, and literally anyone who opposes them for any reason is a tolerable ally for the moment.
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Aug 8, 2019 23:56
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Furia posted:Good job refusing to even acknowledge the torture currently happening under Maduro, btw I shall hereby acknowledge the torture currently happening under Maduro. Please note this acknowledgment henceforth
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Aug 9, 2019 00:12
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M. Discordia posted:Reminder that the Venezuelan regime controls literal death squads which have been responsible for more targeted political executions in the last year than Pinochet was in his lifetime, and literally anyone who opposes them for any reason is a tolerable ally for the moment. It’s not on par with Sadam’s Rape rooms but enough to get folks focused on Maduro and not the USA as the responsible party for the ongoing tragedy.
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Aug 9, 2019 02:02
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Fiend posted:It’s not on par with Sadam’s Rape rooms but enough to get folks focused on Maduro and not the USA as the responsible party for the ongoing tragedy. “Not on par”? You’re loving disgusting.
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Aug 9, 2019 07:39
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What are the literal death squads exactly? I'd like to read about it.
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Aug 9, 2019 09:37
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thatfatkid posted:What are the literal death squads exactly? I'd like to read about it. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6711945/Masked-police-unit-accused-killing-200-President-Maduro-desperately-clings-power.html
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Aug 9, 2019 12:25
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536 posted:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6711945/Masked-police-unit-accused-killing-200-President-Maduro-desperately-clings-power.html Crazy how quickly the “Maduro death squad body count” goes from Pinochet numbers to 205 with absolutely no sources in the middle.
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Aug 9, 2019 13:01
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536 posted:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6711945/Masked-police-unit-accused-killing-200-President-Maduro-desperately-clings-power.html So SWAT teams essentially?
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Aug 9, 2019 14:05
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uninterrupted posted:Crazy how quickly the “Maduro death squad body count” goes from Pinochet numbers to 205 with absolutely no sources in the middle. 205 over the last six months. Add to these the thousands killed previous years in other targeted killings and additional thousands killed by Maduros atrocious policies. thatfatkid posted:So SWAT teams essentially? Yeah, Maduro is using the very same excuses as Pinochet, that it’s police action against criminals and not political killings. And just like during the Pinochet era, there are ghouls in the west supporting him, despite all the blood on his hands.
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Aug 9, 2019 15:55
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Noshtane posted:205 over the last six months. Add to these the thousands killed previous years in other targeted killings and additional thousands killed by Maduros atrocious policies. Who are these western ghouls supporting Maduro? Is this more of the fnoxs insane conspiracy theory that there’s a western leftist posting cabal keeping Maduro in power? e: also 205 in the last six months since the US has waged economic warfare seems reasonable. Between the attempted invasion and following false flag under the guise of “humanitarian aid” and the US embargo of Venezuela (an act of war), it’s obvious there is a potion of the opposition dedicated to killing as many Venezuelans as are needed to overthrow the democratically elected government. Maybe they should run in elections on their wholesale privatization platform instead of sitting out and pouting, then illegally declaring their Special Boy president. uninterrupted fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Aug 9, 2019 |
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Aug 9, 2019 16:27
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205 in just six months is very concerning. That said it's not the thousands that people have proclaimed. Though I recall that number being sourced though.
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Aug 9, 2019 16:43
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