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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:Possibly? I genuinely don't know what the most infuriating part about that is.
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Aug 5, 2019 00:58
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McNally posted:There are over 390 million firearms in the US. If we extremely conservatively estimate that ten percent of them are semiauto and average $500 per gun that's $19.5 billion What congress will/will not fund is arbitrary at best, yea, it's a good bet they wouldn't but dont kid yourself into thinking they wouldn't immediately throw 20 billion over five years to gently caress over the poor and personally enrich themselves.
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Aug 5, 2019 01:01
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McNally posted:There are over 390 million firearms in the US. If we extremely conservatively estimate that ten percent of them are semiauto and average $500 per gun that's $19.5 billion 
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Aug 5, 2019 01:02
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And NZ has a tiny fraction of the budget that the US has. People seem to think NZ is different, that it's somehow easy. People tried to update our firearms laws for 30 years and it took a mass shooting to change anything. Ditto our mental health system and any government service that has no revenue stream. Ultimately there is a choice, remove the pools of weapons that allow such easy massacres or allow them to continue. It isn't going to happen with a single law, it isn't going to happen overnight or even in a couple of years. It isn't going to stop every shooting. It will cause a lot of pain to legitimate gun owners. That's just how the situation has developed in both countries.
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Aug 5, 2019 01:04
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Yeah, that at all addresses my point. Well done you.
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Aug 5, 2019 01:07
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Yes, the same government that refuses to reform for-profit prisons or the militarization of police, and penny-pinches every program to help the average (or poorer) citizen is totally going to fund this program and make it accessible and affordable for gun owners to avoid becoming felons.Jaguars! posted:And NZ has a tiny fraction of the budget that the US has. People seem to think NZ is different, that it's somehow easy. New Zealand set aside $200 million for an estimated few tens of thousands. To make the math easy, let's say that means 39,000 guns. Compared to the US 390,000,000 we only need to add four more zeros...$2 trillion. Edit: I probably need to point out that this is tongue-in-cheek Godholio fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Aug 5, 2019 |
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Aug 5, 2019 01:07
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Right, I think we all understand what a drop in the bucket that number is, but, again, if not loving over war widows for 5.6 billion bucks is "too expensive" then a nearly $20bil compensated confiscation plan will only ever be used as grandstanding. And as much as the "they're coming for our guns over my cold dead body" crowd is probably blustering, I still fear what would happen if suddenly they got to be right. Putting semiautos on the NFA wouldn't necessarily be something I'd be against, if done right (namely, eliminate the extra fee/"tax stamp" cost and maintain an open registry), but IL outlaws private ownership of most NFA items, and you've got to go out and get a Curios and Relics FFL to own the NFA items they don't ban outright. What if they decide, at a state level, "yeah, gently caress it, you can't own those anymore either" (especially if Missouri/Kentucky/Indiana/Wisconsin/Iowa don't outlaw them)? How do you manage the transfer of all Illinois semiautos either out of state or to a scrapper? What about 80% lowers, like for ARs, Glocks, and P320s? How do you stop folks from home-manufacturing an AR post-ban without also banning the possession of gun parts? If you ban the possession of parts as well as the weapon, how do you maintain a legally registered semiautomatic? This is even assuming compliance and everyone acting in good faith, and the racist "heritage not hate" goobers (which IL actually has a lot of, especially the farther you get from Chicago) definitely aren't going to be following that law. I mean, gently caress, I know as many people in IL that own guns without FOIDs as I do people with FOIDs, and possession of guns or ammo is illegal without having a FOID. Literally, you're not supposed to be able to buy ammo without a FOID. But people still routinely and easily bypass that law with no repercussions. Professor Bling fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Aug 5, 2019 |
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Aug 5, 2019 01:12
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McNally posted:Yeah, that at all addresses my point. Well done you. The point is that it is entirely feasible if the political will is there. Obviously the people in charge at the moment would offer tax breaks for gun purchases before even considering a semi-auto buyback, but by that metric it's not worth discussing any meaningful positive policy changes since it just plain isn't going to happen.
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Aug 5, 2019 01:18
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:The point is that it is entirely feasible if the political will is there. Obviously the people in charge at the moment would offer tax breaks for gun purchases before even considering a semi-auto buyback, but by that metric it's not worth discussing any meaningful positive policy changes since it just plain isn't going to happen. The political will isn't there, nor will it be until we somehow get 60 democrats who aren't Joe Manchin in the Senate along with a liberal majority on the supreme Court.
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Aug 5, 2019 01:21
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Make barrels the serial numbered "legally this is a gun" part instead of recievers. Nobody's gonna turn out rifling worth a drat in their home shop, or most decent commercial machine shops for that matter.
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Aug 5, 2019 01:22
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a guy massacred six year old children in an elementary school and nothing was done stop pretending. the country values guns over people it's pretty simple
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Aug 5, 2019 01:23
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Godholio posted:Yes, the same government that refuses to reform for-profit prisons or the militarization of police, and penny-pinches every program to help the average (or poorer) citizen is totally going to fund this program and make it accessible and affordable for gun owners to avoid becoming felons. You don't have to take away all 390 million. You don't have to do it all in a year or even a decade. You don't even have to buy them back, that's just what our governement decided to do. I get that your current government doesn't have the political will to do any of this, and I get that the situation in the US is different in that you have explicit rights and sometimes perhaps even a need to go armed. Edit: Saw your edit GH, all good. Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Aug 5, 2019 |
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Aug 5, 2019 01:25
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in a 5-4(or 6-3) decision the Supreme Court struck down (insert any meaningful gun control measure)
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Aug 5, 2019 01:26
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McNally posted:Yeah, that at all addresses my point. Well done you. If the people you're referencing considered it an expense that improved their personal well-being then they would absolutely support it.
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Aug 5, 2019 01:31
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Realistically, you're going to need a constitutional amendment to move semi-autos to the NFA, or any kind of seizure/collection program beyond a voluntary buyback program along the lines of Cash for Clunkers. Even a stacked liberal court is unlikely to pare down the right to bear arms so drastically as to take away semi autos, which likely make up 2/3 or more of all guns in this country. Specifically enumerated rights are almost never cut back except in very narrow and specific ways, because the Court historically has done a decent job of recognizing that once a right is gone, it doesn't come back.
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Aug 5, 2019 01:33
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FAUXTON posted:If the people you're referencing considered it an expense that improved their personal well-being then they would absolutely support it. A silver lining, you might say.
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Aug 5, 2019 01:35
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Prop Wash posted:Please, thread, find solace in the fact that nobody is going to have a take quite so bad as this guy. https://twitter.com/smashmouth/status/1158094341019058176
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Aug 5, 2019 01:40
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McNally posted:A silver lining, you might say. No, I'm saying they need to be reminded they have skin in the game by seeing their peers removed from office as a result of their intransigence on gun proliferation. It'll take years of effort by people who basically need to treat "removal of those fuckers from office" as their single issue though which I regret to say is not a big area of overlap in the venn diagram because anyone left of nazi is not a regular voter.
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Aug 5, 2019 01:40
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sneakyfrog posted:sweep the leggs smashmouth
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Aug 5, 2019 01:59
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A gun buyback program and banning semi-auto firearms is probably not feasible, mostly because the NRA made firearm ownership a part of identity politics. Owning a gun went from target shooting and hunting to owning the libs and being a man at the same time. The NRA made gun owners their own private club. They made you feel special for owning a gun, they made you believe that you were special for owning a gun. And that kind of appeal, that feeling of being part of a special club of like minded individuals, that's what's so hard to overcome with gun control. If you make it harder for someone to buy an AR-15, you're taking away their friends and the special club they go to every week. Maybe they work a poo poo job and they're stuck in a poo poo marriage, but when they go to the range to sight in a new Bushmaster they're playing with their friends. And that's not a bad thing! Having a hobby is a healthy thing, and target shooting is a fun hobby to have. I'm sure most of everyone here would love to go on a range trip together and shoot the poo poo out of a bunch of AR's and .45 pistols. Throw in some tannerite and tequila, and you have half of a GiP Vegas Weekend. The problem is that because guns and personal identity became so intertwined, any possibility of change is viewed as a personal attack, and that's a big part of why change to gun laws is so goddamn hard. Asking a gun owner to start doing a background check everytime they sell a AR to a range buddy is unthinkable, it's a personal attack on their belief system. And no matter how many dead fathers and children get stacked up in the morgue, they won't change a goddamn thing, regardless of the body count or who got shot. Honestly, there really isn't one special fix for all of the problems guns cause. One specific solution is to require background checks for private gun sales, that would reduce one specific kind of gun crime. But to reduce the other types of gun crimes, we would have to enact a bunch of new laws and regulations that probably wouldn't pass SCOTUS muster. I guess what I'm saying is, there really isn't one specific way to stop mass shootings. Most of the shooters aren't mentally ill enough to warrant detention or weapon confiscation, and we can't restrict firearm sales without wounding that personal identity link, so I would expect poo poo to get bloodier before it gets better. Kind of like Northern Ireland, but with more shootings and fewer bombings.
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Aug 5, 2019 02:05
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BigDave posted:A gun buyback program and banning semi-auto firearms is probably not feasible, mostly because the NRA made firearm ownership a part of identity politics. Owning a gun went from target shooting and hunting to owning the libs and being a man at the same time. People might be right that arming blacks and gays is the way through this.
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Aug 5, 2019 02:08
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Back grounds checks for every gun sale, every gun sale must go through a FFL dealer, and cops actually go after people that make death threats. Its loving bonkers that people that own guns can make explicit threats to kill people and not be charged and if found guilty have their guns taken away. The columbine dudes literally posted photos of pipe bombs online and made death threats and the local police ignored it. The whole school shooting phenomenon would be entirely different today if the cops had simply loving done their jobs and arrested them for illegally making pipe bombs. Not every shooting would be prevented but it would go a long way to stopping them from reaching the self sustainment that comes from them constantly being in the news.
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Aug 5, 2019 02:20
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yes but we're too busy harassing the homeless
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Aug 5, 2019 02:32
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45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:Back grounds checks for every gun sale, every gun sale must go through a FFL dealer, and cops actually go after people that make death threats. Its loving bonkers that people that own guns can make explicit threats to kill people and not be charged and if found guilty have their guns taken away. Harris and Klebold probably wouldn't have been stopped with gun laws, mostly because Columbine wasn't a school shooting. It was a failed bombing, and if Harris hadn't hosed up the detonator wiring it wouldn't have been 13 dead, it would have been 300 dead in the bombing alone, plus 10x wounded. The original plan was to collapse the library on top of the cafeteria, then shoot the survivors as they fled into the parking lot.
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Aug 5, 2019 02:35
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BigDave posted:Harris and Klebold probably wouldn't have been stopped with gun laws, mostly because Columbine wasn't a school shooting. this is a real stretch in logic
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Aug 5, 2019 02:36
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Not if you keep reading.
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Aug 5, 2019 02:42
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Godholio posted:Not if you keep reading. i did keep reading, but when 13 people die by getting shot, i don't think you can say "it wasn't a school shooting" regardless of the original intent. that's a ridiculous stretch in logic, and i would wholly expect a fox news pundit to trot it out to defend gun ownership.
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Aug 5, 2019 02:44
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Fallom posted:People might be right that arming blacks and gays is the way through this. Given the one thing that caused them to do loving anything in the past what, 30 years, was the time a country music concert got shot up - yeah arming minorities and otherwise dispossessed and disenfranchised people is probably the most reliable path towards getting the fuckers on board with stemming the tide.
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Aug 5, 2019 02:44
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colachute posted:i did keep reading, but when 13 people die by getting shot, i don't think you can say "it wasn't a school shooting" regardless of the original intent. that's a ridiculous stretch in logic, and i would wholly expect a fox news pundit to trot it out to defend gun ownership. It wasn't intended as a stretch in logic, it's what Harris originally planned. That loving sociopath wanted to kill anyone who was inferior to him, which was everyone. He partnered with a suicidal alcoholic who pared with his personality enough to where he was able to plan a mass murder without raising any objections.
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Aug 5, 2019 02:54
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um, I'd also say that the "well regulated militia" portion of the 2nd should actually be built out. Require all fire-arms holders to have training (military training substitutes for other mandated training, etc). This would, at the very least, put an instructor in front of all the whackos and give an avenue for folks to raise the alarm about people early and discourage purchasing overall.
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Aug 5, 2019 03:02
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BigDave posted:Throw in some tannerite and tequila As someone who saw a honda civic transmission get thrown several hundred feet up and 400 feet laterally at them by other fuckheads we didnt know with tannerite at a public range in washington where neither tannerite or drinking (they had several cases drained by the time they blew it up) were allowed fuuuuuck that. Ban tannerite wholesale as far as im conscerned.
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Aug 5, 2019 03:06
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McNally posted:There are over 390 million firearms in the US. If we extremely conservatively estimate that ten percent of them are semiauto and average $500 per gun that's $19.5 billion Yeah....I'd have to pass on that one even if they offered me double what I paid. I've had to put down a bear, a super aggressive dog that treed a kid and a couple years back Hooker shot a loving methed up gently caress in the leg who tried to kick his way into our house. Guns are a useful tool for some. That said I'm down for free mandatory background checks on all sales, safe storage laws, and funding the ever loving poo poo out of the ATF to go after the fucks who refuse to comply. If you loving cant keep your hands to yourself or go through out your day without threatening people you have no business owning a gun for at least 5 to 10 years if ever.
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Aug 5, 2019 03:07
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El Mero Mero posted:um, I'd also say that the "well regulated militia" portion of the 2nd should actually be built out. Require all fire-arms holders to have training (military training substitutes for other mandated training, etc). As a part of the "Well Regulated Militia" all firearms owners must adhere to AR 190-11.
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Aug 5, 2019 03:12
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Watch Miller convince trump to push for well regulated militia then create a board to approve militia group applications and only approve right wing groups. Make them wear brown shirts when they go to the range.
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Aug 5, 2019 05:30
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Would it be wasted breath to point out that "well regulated" had a different meaning in 1780s English?
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Aug 5, 2019 05:31
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McNally posted:Would it be wasted breath to point out that "well regulated" had a different meaning in 1780s English? Lol trump
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Aug 5, 2019 05:32
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Donnie can't even grasp modern English.
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Aug 5, 2019 05:35
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McNally posted:Would it be wasted breath to point out that "well regulated" had a different meaning in 1780s English? sure is strange that the only sources you ever find claiming "well-regulated" had a different meaning back then are super intense pro-2A sites
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Aug 5, 2019 05:38
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NAPALM STICKS TO posted:sure is strange that the only sources you ever find claiming "well-regulated" had a different meaning back then are super intense pro-2A sites Or it's something I picked up in the course of studying history. The term has cropped up in other contexts. But sure, assume where I got this knowledge from.
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Aug 5, 2019 05:47
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McNally posted:Or it's something I picked up in the course of studying history. The term has cropped up in other contexts. tbh even if it did have a different meaning then i do not much care what a bunch of 1700s farmers thought, i just want to live in a civilized first world country
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Aug 5, 2019 05:51
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