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Johnny Truant posted:Played my first two games(not against AI) in 5 years last night and WOW I didn't remember poo poo. Trickling back from the recesses of my mind, but that first game was rough, even as Sniper i didn't play for about a year and came back a while ago. went straight into ranked matches. some folks we're not happy, but i ended up 50/50 and legend 4 or abouts there. just have fun man.
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Aug 6, 2019 15:07
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Hockey Otter 
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valve should remake boata.
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Aug 6, 2019 15:32
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Nizox posted:i didn't play for about a year and came back a while ago. went straight into ranked matches. some folks we're not happy, but i ended up 50/50 and legend 4 or abouts there. Oh no doubt, I just wanted to get a few practice unranked matches in before switching to ranked. Like, mainly so I can remember the keybindings and customize my new mouse with some of them. It's wild coming back and seeing strange new items, like now there's Kaya & Yasha and Kaya & Sange? 
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Aug 6, 2019 16:00
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Johnny Truant posted:It's wild coming back and seeing strange new items, like now there's Kaya & Yasha and Kaya & Sange? Or new Heroes lol. And RE: "Just have fun" - I've been trying real hard not to get salty, but holy crap last night me and my 2 buddies got paired up with two randoms who went Viper/Drow offlane and fed 20+ kills together. Tinker mid was unable to gank, I was Enigma in the Jungle (tbf I did loving awful because I forgot how to Jungle enigma) and then bot lane was.... something else that sucks at rotating. The two of them literally never once used their TP scrolls to switch lanes. The Drow was buying Recipes for items before getting the actual item components. Like I get it, losing is a team effort and I should be asking myself, "Well what could I have done better?" but goddamn. I've lost more games than I've won since I started playing again a week or two ago, but that was the first one in a series of losses that made me say, "Oh right - this is why I stopped playing DOTA."
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Aug 6, 2019 16:46
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https://youtu.be/7mavjOReTo0
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Aug 6, 2019 16:53
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Sab669 posted:(tbf I did loving awful because I forgot how to Jungle enigma) Don't feel bad: you weren't supposed to do well because there is no solo jungle to 15 mins anymore. The creep gold/exp was nerfed shortly after the 7.00 patch. If you do want to jungle, make your presence known in lane and always stack.
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Aug 6, 2019 18:11
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That's good to know, but the key factor was that I turned a Ranged Creep into some Eidolons right out of the gate rather than converting the 'boss' creep in the camp. So my little bros got their poo poo kicked in instantly, then it was on cooldown and I had to just face tank poo poo / wait for mana & cooldown constantly. I played a few games Jungle NP right out of the gate and I was still getting Midas around ~7-8 minutes which seems to be par for the course from what I remember year(s) ago?
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Aug 6, 2019 18:26
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Was there a patch where you could run 4 cores and a jungler and not expect to lose horribly?
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Aug 6, 2019 18:39
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not really unless the jungler was rat dota furion/lycan and you just made every fight a 3v4 because they kept having to send people to defend rax in every engagement. which is still true today pretty much.
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Aug 6, 2019 18:44
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Sab669 posted:So my little bros got their poo poo kicked in instantly... Micro your eidolons. Let one tank then move it back, let another tank then move it back. Their attack-proc-spawn-passive thing is what matters, not their health. Your eidolons should basically never die in the jungle (they time out).
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Aug 6, 2019 19:08
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Was there a patch where you could run 4 cores and a jungler and not expect to lose horribly?
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Aug 6, 2019 19:12
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Incoherence posted:In low MMR games, maybe, because low MMR games both stretch on forever and don't punish bad laning comps nearly as hard as they should. You can still jungle in low MMR games. Even if jungling gave decent gold now, anyone competent would just block all the camps. See also: Playing against Meepo or Alch.
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Aug 6, 2019 19:20
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MoaM posted:Micro your eidolons. Let one tank then move it back, let another tank then move it back. Their attack-proc-spawn-passive thing is what matters, not their health. Your eidolons should basically never die in the jungle (they time out). I mean, I know you're supposed to swap who is tanking - NP is my second most played hero and you gotta rotate his Treants too. I just made the mistake of Converting a lane creep instead of a jungle creep, and not realizing how weak the Eidolons are out of the gate. Also I was initially thinking they split upon taking N hits, rather than attacking N times  Like, Level 1 Eidolons have 180 HP and 270 move speed. They die to 3-4 attacks from a full Kobold camp. So after it took 1 volley and got chunked, I have a very short window to then select the single Eidolon and try to move it out of range but it's too late because the kobolds move faster and can chase easily. Last time I played Enigma, according to DOTABuff, was 2014 lol. Sab669 fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Aug 6, 2019 |
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Aug 6, 2019 19:51
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Don't jungle in 2019
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Aug 6, 2019 19:54
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Killing your ranged creep is the correct decision as semi-jungle enigma.
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Aug 6, 2019 20:04
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FACKER posted:Don't jungle in 2017, 2018 or 2019
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Aug 6, 2019 20:05
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Agreed. Just ignore the jungle and you'll win more games. Do something else useful with your time like pushing a lane or ganking a lane or defending a tower or warding/rewarding or convincing your team that objectives win the game and it's not a game of hide and seek in the jungle
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Aug 6, 2019 20:18
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Was there a patch where you could run 4 cores and a jungler and not expect to lose horribly? Turbo mode?
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Aug 6, 2019 20:28
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Did they give a reason for nerfing jungling when they did? I was decent with Enigma at it in like, 2013, haha.
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Aug 6, 2019 20:29
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I mean we can talk about optimal Enigma play but at the end of the day someone on that team needed to pick a support. IDK if one of the two randoms was showing support though.
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Aug 6, 2019 20:48
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I don't remember the order in which people picked. I think it was: Drow TA Weaver Viper Enigma I couldn't decide what to pick; I'm bad at drafting. And so are my friends lol.
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Aug 6, 2019 20:50
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Enigma in the offlane is pretty drat good. Deny all the ranged creeps by converting to eidolons, use the eidolons to deny the rest of your creeps, lane pushes into your tower constantly so you're not out in the open without an escape and you're starving the enemy carry of farm. Don't jungle
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Aug 6, 2019 20:59
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It was bad of the Viper to pick a 4th core but you can't always depend on randoms to make sensible picks so that's something you could account for. Jungle Enigma definitely seems like a poor pick there, when you already have an awkward team that needs a lot of farm to do anything you don't want a hero that ignores the lane and takes jungle creeps away from your cores.
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Aug 6, 2019 21:02
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The jungle is there to augment the farm of your mid/offlane hero, but the thing you need to keep in mind is that the jungle is always objectively worse than farming a lane. If you're a hero who actually wants gold or levels (which is certainly Enigma), you need to be in a lane. Keeping that in mind though, if you're the offlaner and the enemy is trilaning and you can't get any EXP or farm, just dip into the jungle. You're not going to stop them from taking advantage of that lane, so it's better that you can get some EXP or levels yourself. You want to stay in the offlane triangle though. Yes, this leaves their supports open to roam, but that's why the offlaners shouldn't really take the observers and let them be used to defend mid and safelane. If you need to block camps, use sentries. Plus, once you see them rotate, you can get into the lane for the EXP. If they're bad (which they probably are if its a pub) eventually theyll push the lane into your tower which is also a great time to grab the EXP. If you're the safelaner, you're pretty much glued to the lane. Mid goes to the jungle on the way to gank and stuff. The famous "deadlane" analogy refers to the idea that no team will ever have the resources to safely farm every lane, so you need to pick one lane to sack. This isn't just in the laning phase, this is at all points of the game. So, basically, whichever lane the enemy team is congregating in will be the one whose hero goes to farm the jungle. You basically never want a dedicated jungler.
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Aug 6, 2019 21:13
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on the other hand being a solo 5 support is going to wind up terrible if you got a guy 4th picking viper in that scenario so gently caress it play whatever you want
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Aug 6, 2019 21:14
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Sab669 posted:Or new Heroes lol. If you're not a toxic player, sometimes they wind up with you, but more often than not they'll be on the other team.
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Aug 6, 2019 21:15
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Pos4 enigma that jungles offlane side and rushes fast helm is in high mmr matches. You just dont stay in the jungle and push towers fast.
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Aug 6, 2019 21:19
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Neon Belly posted:If you're not a toxic player, sometimes they wind up with you, but more often than not they'll be on the other team. Honestly this was the reason I started playing offlane. I realized that every player is ten minutes of a really bad laning phase away from a mental breakdown, and those players are usually the kind who insist on playing safelane carry. Throwing Concussion Shots at safelaners is not just inflicting magical damage, but also emotional damage that will eventually add up to someone yelling slurs in all-chat before giving up and handing you your +25
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Aug 6, 2019 21:26
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FACKER posted:Don't jungle Yes I heard you the first time you said it, when the next guy quoted you, and the next time you posted saying "Ignore the jungle". I got the message loud and clear. We're simply talking about how the rest of the game unfolded at this point / what else I could've done differently.
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Aug 6, 2019 21:31
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Use a quelling blade to deforest the map one tree at a time while your teammates watch in horror
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Aug 6, 2019 22:17
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Tbh even when I play 'jungle' furion I'm really a roaming ganker like pudge, just with consistent gold income. You fall off in xp even doing that though without an early midas so offlane is better if you know you'll be able to farm it
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Aug 6, 2019 22:21
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Johnny Truant posted:Did they give a reason for nerfing jungling when they did? I was decent with Enigma at it in like, 2013, haha. icefrog wanted to ruin the game like he did with the denial change killing offlane.
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Aug 6, 2019 23:01
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The new matchmaking update brings ranked roles to base matchmaking. You're now MMR'd with Core / Support values or something; no party/solo MMR. That post is kinda long, needs to be re-written.
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Aug 6, 2019 23:08
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Groovelord Neato posted:icefrog wanted to ruin the game like he did with the denial change killing offlane. Honestly I'm having trouble believing that the same Icefrog that consistently came up with brilliant changes every patch suddenly went crazy and decided to turn the game into EM, force 2-1-2 and kill the jungle, offlane and trilanes. (sorry, I blame Underlords for reopening old wounds   )
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Aug 6, 2019 23:09
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I still miss the Iron Talon. I don't think it was even around for very long.
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Aug 7, 2019 00:06
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That was the best item... ...because it thought you how to last hit.
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Aug 7, 2019 00:09
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Nah, it was great because it let otherwise starved offlaners farm the side-jungle rapidly between waves.
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Aug 7, 2019 00:43
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Johnny Truant posted:Did they give a reason for nerfing jungling when they did? I was decent with Enigma at it in like, 2013, haha. Jungling then had two paths to success: >Chen, Enigma, or Furion getting some early XP then going and ganking a lane/pushing an early tower >Drow, LC, Lycan, Lifestealer, Bloodseeker, or some other hero with sustain or summons just farming it up The second way would make your team fight 5v4 for a while until they have enough levels and farm. Pro teams would even run a jungler as a 4 sometime (there was some really loony Juggernaut in the jungle poo poo for a while too) The problem was that most pub teams without a jungler weren't coordinated enough to gank the jungler and press their advantage...it made the pub experience stagnant and made it pretty miserable to solo support when your 4 is a jungler. At some point they also added in the Iron Talon too which was basically an upgraded quelling blade to use for jungling. Eventually they changed the map to add in a bunch of camps but nerfed the XP, and then added bounty runes so for a while your 4 position would just roam around, get bounties, and gank lanes/poo poo on the jungler. Of course, this meta also featured many different heroes buying Iron Talons and acting like semi-ganker jungler. At different points they removed bounty rune XP, removed Iron Talon, nerfed the jungle more, all of that changed the meta and stuck a fork in jungling. schmitty9800 fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 01:46
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So speaking of jungling, I just played a game. I was pos4 support with wind ranger in the offlane; the safe enemy lane had a trilane of legion commander, wraith king and shadow shaman. At 3 minutes, legion hosed off into the jungle for 10 minutes, farmed boots and a monkey king bar (because this is sub2k MMR hotness). I stayed in lane with wind ranger and we ended up doing pretty well, but the legion commander ended up running away with the game, for that and other reasons. What was the right move in this situation? We had faceless void with jakiro in safe lane vs. a solo centaur; should I have called to the jakiro to rotate and we just gank the legion command until she went to the small jungle? https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4951813752
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Aug 7, 2019 02:13
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MoaM posted:The new matchmaking update brings ranked roles to base matchmaking. You're now MMR'd with Core / Support values or something; no party/solo MMR. Terrible wording but this could be good. I like that you can queue for multiple positions and that you can pick position 5 or 4 and not just "support". "Most of the issues related to this we think we can solve with better algorithms. " this sounds terrifying though. I have no faith in them or in algorithms . They're absolutely right that ranked incentivized solo play
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Aug 7, 2019 02:23
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