|
Shageletic posted:Based on my deep research ask your friend if he has opinions on SJWs/voted for.Trump He doesn’t and definitely didn’t, he’s just a contrarian nerd who likes to poo poo on the MCU because it’s popular
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 17:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 13:34 |
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:Or have Hydra scoop him up after the war when he's on his Nazi-hunting kick and put him on ice, and then he can escape at an appropriate point in the timeline into let's say Sokovia, and you could even retcon it so he was Pietro & Wanda's real daddy all along! I was thinking this. It'd even explain part of his radicalization, having been abused by Hydra controlled SHEILD. It would explain why he laid low, only seeking out fellow mutants like him, including a young Charles Xavier...
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 17:34
|
|
|
https://youtu.be/W9Ixi2hP3Y4 Heh
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 17:41
|
|
|
it will never ever happen but it would be cool if they did the media blitz with the actors after the movie releases so they dont have to do all these interviews where they have to do a combo of saying nothing at all and lying through their teeth about the plot and their characters
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 18:32
|
|
|
site posted:This makes me curious, does anyone know if the Jewish community ever had anything to say about magneto Given that he was (most times) supposed to be a sympathetic villain I gave him a lot of leeway. It's understandable how someone who experienced the Holocaust can say "my people experienced this before and now I will go to any extreme to make sure it doesn't happen again". I've noticed this even with a few older people at my congregation who pretty much think that if Israel stopped existing tomorrow every Jew would be rounded up in every country and exterminated. Having Magneto's origin be tied in so closely with not just a genocide, but one based on racial purity, really gives his motivations a more rounded foundation. Sadly, it's when he goes full on "actually I was the racial purist all along" those motivations get thrown out the window. I remember Morrison getting some major flack over his portrayal of Magneto in his run, and he even admitted that he really missed the mark on the character.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 20:09
|
|
|
glitchwraith posted:I was thinking this. It'd even explain part of his radicalization, having been abused by Hydra controlled SHEILD. It would explain why he laid low, only seeking out fellow mutants like him, including a young Charles Xavier... You could even make it so Carlos Dangerroom put a psychic block on the twins, preventing them from using their powers and being identified as mutants. Then Strucker lucks out and removes the block with the Mind Stone, thinking it granted the powers in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 20:56
|
|
|
Or he just unlocked latent mutant powers through trauma like in Deadpool.
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 21:32
|
|
|
Just say he was pretending to be Xorn for the last 40 years and somehow that stopped him from aging
|
|
#
?
Aug 6, 2019 21:41
|
|
|
Batman Hush is loving trash.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 03:07
|
|
|
Vince MechMahon posted:Batman Hush is loving trash. I don't doubt this statement, but what specifically is bad about it? I imagine they kept most of the plot the same as the books.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 03:17
|
|
|
CzarChasm posted:I don't doubt this statement, but what specifically is bad about it? I imagine they kept most of the plot the same as the books. They cut a ton of stuff, and change some poo poo. Instead of a plan all the villains are in on, they're being blackmailed by Hush. Tommy Elliot actually dies. Hush is the Riddler in a different costume. He dies. Batman and Catwoman break up because Catwoman saved their lives at the expense of Riddlers and Batman is a loving child about it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 03:25
|
|
|
Rather than trying to game around time by deaging or finding alternate atrocities to replace it with, would making a newer Magneto a second generation survivor work?
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 05:01
|
|
|
Seemlar posted:Rather than trying to game around time by deaging or finding alternate atrocities to replace it with, would making a newer Magneto a second generation survivor work? I think so, especially considering it's not exactly like his people had an easy time of it once WW2 was over with it. That's what I think is the problem with making him a different ethnicity/survivor of a different atrocity. It will, to a not insignificant amount of people, feel like they're saying it was smooth sailing for the Jewish people once the Nazis were kicked out.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 07:42
|
|
|
Just popping in to remind people that Magneto can be played by Gus and still be Jewish. Black Jews exist! We are real! And basically get no screentime unless it's a Sammy Davis JR joke
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 11:29
|
|
|
zoux posted:
How about The Leader?
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 12:20
|
|
|
Koalas March posted:Just popping in to remind people that Magneto can be played by Gus and still be Jewish. Black Jews exist! We are real! And basically get no screentime unless it's a Sammy Davis JR joke Yep! I appreciate you saying so often, it's probably because of your educating me in the USPol thread and on Twitter that I thought to specify "and there are non-white Jewish traditions that have also faced persecution" earlier.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 12:52
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:How about The Leader? And recast Tim Blake Nelson????
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 15:10
|
|
|
Ethiopian Jews didn't exactly have it easy and did a mass emigration to Israel in 1977 so that's about the right time for a young Esposito (though he for real doesn't look Ethiopian but whatever Hollywood)
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 16:08
|
|
|
Why can't Magneto just be really old? Wolverine's like 140 and no one seems to mind. Or instead of changing Magneto's age they could just pretend World War II happened in the 1980s. I don't foresee that causing any problems.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 16:51
|
|
|
I'm not opposed to Magneto's tragedy being updated. To me it's like Frank going from a Vietnam veteran to having served in Iraq. It makes sense. I understand those aren't equal parallels, but my mind is the same. One of the things I admire about Cap's origin is that it's probably the only one in comics that is better for Marvel's idea of sliding time scale. The further away from WWII that Cap wakes up, honestly the better he works as a character.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 22:22
|
|
|
SonicRulez posted:The further away from WWII that Cap wakes up, honestly the better he works as a character. Until a point, at least. I feel like Cap waking up in 2018/2019 doesn't work nearly as well as Cap waking up in, say 2006.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 23:22
|
|
|
You could probably do something fun with Cap waking up and the loving nazis are back.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 23:27
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:You could probably do something fun with Cap waking up and the loving nazis are back. gently caress, was just about to post this. Make him think Hydra won because a loving nazi is president.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2019 23:29
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:You could probably do something fun with Cap waking up and the loving nazis are back. There's no way Disney would ever do anything like that
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 00:18
|
|
|
Unmature posted:There's no way Disney would ever do anything like that Not in the movies no. It could happen in a comic probably.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 00:26
|
|
|
SonicRulez posted:I'm not opposed to Magneto's tragedy being updated. To me it's like Frank going from a Vietnam veteran to having served in Iraq. It makes sense. I understand those aren't equal parallels, but my mind is the same. One of the things I admire about Cap's origin is that it's probably the only one in comics that is better for Marvel's idea of sliding time scale. The further away from WWII that Cap wakes up, honestly the better he works as a character. The problem with updating his backstory is that the Holocaust has a unique place in popular culture. Between the global war and western media dominance, everyone knows and understands the Holocaust. No one can question the effect it had on Magneto's worldview. With the Nazis universally vilified, no one would accuse Marvel of taking their side by making the Jewish victim a villain. With the Nazis soundly defeated (at least at the time), no one could say the portrayal is stoking old tensions. Other genocides have happened since, but the writers would have to explain Magneto's experience to the audience, and with the writers almost certainly being less familiar they may not handle it as sensitively. And you'd be courting uncomfortable political controversy in whatever place or culture that genocide happened in. Magneto is probably better off getting something saying he doesn't age, or ages slowly. That, or rewrite his origin more deeply, so he has some other reason to be so aggressively committed to his people. Though that carries a risk; Magneto has the most famous villain origin story in comics.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 00:34
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:The problem with updating his backstory is that the Holocaust has a unique place in popular culture. Between the global war and western media dominance, everyone knows and understands the Holocaust. No one can question the effect it had on Magneto's worldview. With the Nazis universally vilified, no one would accuse Marvel of taking their side by making the Jewish victim a villain. With the Nazis soundly defeated (at least at the time), no one could say the portrayal is stoking old tensions.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 00:45
|
|
|
It's because The Holocaust is so widely known and has a unique place in popular culture, that I feel we could get away from it and go with one of the many, many other tragedies and atrocities of mankind. Magneto's character is he personally saw the horrors man could unleash upon someone different from them, and feeling the need to stick so closely to an event 70-80 years in the past kind of feels like it's being treated as a WHOLLY unique incident that we just keep getting further and further away from. Acknowledging other events and attributing Magneto's past to one of those that is more recent almost adds to his character, by showing "Hey, look, poo poo like this happens more often than you think about or know about. gently caress humanity."
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 00:53
|
|
|
Or instead of making real events part of his origin and repeatedly running into the same problem I'm sure they could write something horrific and tragic based on literally all of history to provide a reason why a person would not trust humanity's ability to coexist with a slightly different version of humanity.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 01:28
|
|
|
So I've tried to be chill about this but y'all seem intent on dragging the topic on for pages on end whenever the slightest opportunity comes so aiight here goes: Hey all! If for some reason y'all are hellbent on racebending one of the most prominent and iconic Jewish characters in comics whose origin is tied to a genocidal atrocity whose effects are still being felt to this day, maybe do so because you've consulted actual Jewish creators and fans about the issue and not because American nerds on the internet don't think the Holocaust is important anymore! How's that!
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 05:01
|
|
|
Even though Morrison's run ended with more of a whimper than a bang, I think (except for the parts where he actually appears) he does a really fascinating thing with Magneto. In death he becomes mythical-- his ideas are allowed to disseminate without the untidy indignities of the living, fallible person who may fail in his schemes, or get turned into a baby, or get his rear end kicked by the Avengers. He remains-- perhaps digested imperfectly or with, as in the case of Quentin Quire, profound bias-- a creature of distilled utopian drive, the pure product, having, at last, purged himself of the hang-ups and hesitations that, maybe, held him back in life. He has a gravity and an urgency as a face on a t-shirt that he hadn't commanded in decades of lackluster post-Claremont stories, and I think that's something we might learn from here. I think to dehisce Magneto from the context of the Holocaust is a mistake. There have been way too many genocides and ethnic purges in the decades since then, sure, but as BrianWilly notes, Magneto's Judaism is, at this point, a tremendously significant and visible part of his identity in the public imagination, and isn't a part of his character that can be gracefully removed or replaced. I also think just making him mad old is a clumsy solution. I mean, sure, why not, but it's an extra moving piece in a conceptual apparatus that already has enough moving pieces. My unrealistic idea, then, is why not just have mutants emerge on the scene post-Magneto, post-Xavier? Spider-Man movies have only gotten better, trimmer, and more fluid since realizing that everyone in the theater has heard of Uncle Ben and there's no reason to rehearse the same little bit of stage-setting every time. I think enough people will be entering the theatre to sit down for an X-Men movie familiar enough with where the broad lines are drawn. So just start without them. Have characters who have read them, have maybe known them, and have passionate opinions about them-- I think that would be enough. I think my favorite portions of Claremont's run happen well after all the classic bits that people adapt into other things-- stuff like the Outback period or the post-Seige Perilous mutant diaspora. Stories where he trusts the readers enough to know the formula well enough that when he dispenses with it they'll still follow along with him-- that a plot without Magneto or Xavier physically present can still center around the ideological disputes they represent.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 06:40
|
|
|
I don't think they should detach Magneto from the Holocaust, but I also think that a guy angrily and wokely trying to come in and claim that a black jewish character would be insulting is funny.
Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Aug 8, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 10:03
|
|
|
Dan Didio posted:I don't think they should detach Magneto from the Holocaust, but I also think that a guy angrily and wokely trying to come in and claim that a black jewish character would be insulting is funny.  If it's not to me...great.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 11:51
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:So I've tried to be chill about this but y'all seem intent on dragging the topic on for pages on end whenever the slightest opportunity comes so aiight here goes: Hey all! If for some reason y'all are hellbent on racebending one of the most prominent and iconic Jewish characters in comics whose origin is tied to a genocidal atrocity whose effects are still being felt to this day, maybe do so because you've consulted actual Jewish creators and fans about the issue and not because American nerds on the internet don't think the Holocaust is important anymore! How's that! Some of us are Jewish tho Like again, he can be black and Jewish and keep the Holocaust background Acknowledging other atrocities and genocides doesn't mean that people are downplaying the Holocaust or don't think it's important??
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 14:52
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:So I've tried to be chill about this but y'all seem intent on dragging the topic on for pages on end whenever the slightest opportunity comes so aiight here goes: Hey all! If for some reason y'all are hellbent on racebending one of the most prominent and iconic Jewish characters in comics whose origin is tied to a genocidal atrocity whose effects are still being felt to this day, maybe do so because you've consulted actual Jewish creators and fans about the issue and not because American nerds on the internet don't think the Holocaust is important anymore! How's that! did literally anyone say or imply that the holocaust isnt important itt
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 15:03
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:The problem with updating his backstory is that the Holocaust has a unique place in popular culture. Between the global war and western media dominance, everyone knows and understands the Holocaust. No one can question the effect it had on Magneto's worldview. With the Nazis universally vilified, no one would accuse Marvel of taking their side by making the Jewish victim a villain. With the Nazis soundly defeated (at least at the time), no one could say the portrayal is stoking old tensions. Courting uncomfortable political controversy doesn't sound like a powerful reason to me. Making Magneto age slowly just sounds weird narratively. Especially in the MCU because you'd have to wonder why the immortal Holocaust survivor did not immediately meet with also time-displaced Captain America for as long as he was kicking around. Plus what about Xavier? Their relationship is also pretty weird if Charles is arguing with idk 60 years of experience versus Magneto approaching 100. I don't think they should be dead either, but that idea sounds more palatable. It is true that Magneto would make for a good martyr.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 15:12
|
|
|
SonicRulez posted:Courting uncomfortable political controversy doesn't sound like a powerful reason to me. They've been working together/hiding mutants from the world using Xavier's powers. Both age slowly because they are omega mutants. MCU X-Men should open with Xavier dying and suddenly the world no longer has a psychic mutant violating their memories to hide the existence of mutants. This creates a reason for a large amount of the world's population to hate and fear mutants.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 15:25
|
|
|
No, I actually read every post. What people did imply is that by giving the holocaust 99% of fictional media attention we ignore the countless other atrocities making them seem less important. I think one person was like "the holocaust is old news" but I'm pretty sure they just meant we've had/are still having genocides since.
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 15:26
|
|
|
Whatever they do, replacing the HOLOCAUST with some made up bullshit like Latveria is very very much not a good idea
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 16:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 13:34 |
|
|
i like the idea of 100 year old magneto that doesnt need to be physically capable because of his power
|
|
#
?
Aug 8, 2019 16:20
|
|
