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appropriatemetaphor posted:Going for emperor then before my king dies and all these vassals get away. Sons of Ragnarok is everything you already have rolled into one ability. Get rid of that and it's as if you started from scratch. It gives you cheap boats, raiding, prepared invasions and stuff. Temporal can work with ancestor veneration. The catch is you have to give the title of Fylkir or whatever to your heir before you die. Unyielding is great. Honestly power gaming wise the choices don't matter, it's just what flavor you want to your religion. So if you like pagan saints go ancestor veneration. Wanna marry your sister? Divine marriage. Want a not you Pope? Get one. Keep in mind going temporal gives you a cool crown.
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Aug 10, 2019 21:21
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Average Bear posted:Sons of Ragnarok is everything you already have rolled into one ability. Get rid of that and it's as if you started from scratch. It gives you cheap boats, raiding, prepared invasions and stuff. I do love dope head-gear. How does going feudal work? I know you have to click Tribal Organization to Max. But I'm not sure what feudal would change vs tribal? I've also read that you should first make changes to the Vassal Obligation laws, but not sure which or what any of them mean. Like will my Tribal Vassals suddenly become some other sort of vassal? And should I reform religion first then go feudal? Or the other way around? Don't really know how any of this affects anything I guess is my problem.
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Aug 10, 2019 21:59
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You have to reform before you go feudal outside of some heir shenanigans. It is something you want to do, ideally relatively late in a ruler's life so the long reign bonuses help with your vassals now disliking you.
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Aug 10, 2019 22:05
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Of course, the best variant of reformed pagan is (iirc) Dogmatic + Divine Marriage + Temporal — where you become not just the ruler but the actual god of the new religion. The combination will add some squick (especially if combined with bloodthirsty gods), where your entire religion will be inbred and centred on slaughtering everything in sight in celebration of your glory.  Chances are you will not live to the end of the game in any kind of useful form, but it'll be one hell of a ride all the way down.
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Aug 10, 2019 23:23
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Only thing that still annoys me about threat is that it essentially kneecaps the mongols. They rack it up very quickly, get a cross-religion coalition, and the AI starts spazzing out trying to fruitlessly siege down capital provinces from Xinjiang to the Urals
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Aug 11, 2019 00:23
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Davincie posted:is there some way to disable or cheat away the threat mechanic midgame without losing my chance af achievements, it really sucks and makes little sense You can turn threat off in the rules when starting a game. Doesn't help a save already in progress though.
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Aug 11, 2019 00:25
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For the Norse bs succession thing do the sons have to be of age to pull the realm into pieces? I've got one extra son who's underage currently. So hoping my king hurries up and dies?
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Aug 11, 2019 00:33
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And should I pre set the tribe/feudal/temple vassals to something? Like all the way tax or all the way levies? That inbred God religion sounds dope lol
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Aug 11, 2019 01:10
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Gobblecoque posted:You can turn threat off in the rules when starting a game. Doesn't help a save already in progress though. Does this lead to the AI abusing not having threat? I’d like to play a game where if I have a successful character I don’t have to hamstring his conquests just because everyone has banded together because of reasons.
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Aug 11, 2019 01:21
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appropriatemetaphor posted:For the Norse bs succession thing do the sons have to be of age to pull the realm into pieces? I've got one extra son who's underage currently. So hoping my king hurries up and dies? No, early game gavelkind divides your holdings between all of your sons (or daughters if you have no sons), age isn't taken into consideration. But it will be a lot easier to reconquer your heir's brother's lands if he is a child than if he is an adult, so also yes. It would be optimal for your current ruler to die quickly. But your game will probably be more interesting if he doesn't. But that assumes that you control more than one kingdom. If not, your younger son will become a vassal, which prevents you from outright declaring war for your claims. But children are generally much easier to push off a balcony or whatever, and having no sons of his own his lands would most likely simply revert to you. GHOST_BUTT fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Aug 11, 2019 |
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Aug 11, 2019 02:04
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Oh I've got 3 kingdoms with the baby boy looking to take.2 of them
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Aug 11, 2019 02:15
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You'll get strong claims on lost holdings anyway. Presuming you're tribal (which I assume you are if you haven't yet reformed the faith?) you can just honor duel for them without even declaring war. One of your sons will almost certainly die, but the other will get all three kingdoms. Or just, you know, Viking it up and declare war for your claims. If you've got a kingdom on the guy you've definitely got the upper hand. e I can't read. Yeah, you may wish to go for the duel option, unless your one remaining kingdom is substantially more powerful. Or try to squeeze in one more son before dad kicks the bucket. GHOST_BUTT fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Aug 11, 2019 |
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Aug 11, 2019 02:19
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Blimpkin posted:Does this lead to the AI abusing not having threat? I’d like to play a game where if I have a successful character I don’t have to hamstring his conquests just because everyone has banded together because of reasons. I've never had it be a problem. In my experience threat being on or off doesn't change the game much, it just makes it less annoying to play when you get big.
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Aug 11, 2019 02:44
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GHOST_BUTT posted:You'll get strong claims on lost holdings anyway. Presuming you're tribal (which I assume you are if you haven't yet reformed the faith?) you can just honor duel for them without even declaring war. One of your sons will almost certainly die, but the other will get all three kingdoms. I think what I'll have is maybe better. It'd be kingdom of Norway and Denmark vs Sweden and Finland I think. Last time there were two sons one had a very timely death when someone went berserk and killed him by accident. So far no such luck.
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Aug 11, 2019 03:57
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I'm thinking of trying an Iron Century-start Slavic Reformation as the Kiev Rus'/Rurikoviches. I want to do the most "accurate" reformation for them based off of Vladimir's failed attempt at organizing paganism in the realm, which probably would translate to Cosmopolitan nature / Sons of Perun + Syncretic features / Autocephalous leadership... which sounds kind of weak. Are there any funky things about how Autocephalous pagans work compared to the Christian types which use it? I feel like the non-Temporal leadership options need more incentives for them to not be a highly-conditional choice at best when reforming a faith. Maybe if those special Temporal leader artifacts were given to every ruler who reforms a faith? Also, they should probably merge in the Syncretic feature's effects with Cosmopolitan as well.
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Aug 11, 2019 06:56
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Average Bear posted:Temporal can work with ancestor veneration. The catch is you have to give the title of Fylkir or whatever to your heir before you die. Woah, why what happens if you die while being the Fylkir? Does it go to a landed priest in your realm, or something? I've only played as a reformed pagan prior to the changes in HF. Speaking of which though, isn't there an option that makes it so there's a 'head of the faith' per realm, like Orthodox Patriarchs? If so, do you get to keep the title, or does it go to your chaplain or something?
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Aug 11, 2019 09:50
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Major Isoor posted:Woah, why what happens if you die while being the Fylkir? Does it go to a landed priest in your realm, or something? I've only played as a reformed pagan prior to the changes in HF. When you die while being Fylkir (or the head of another reformed pagan faith), you're not eligible to become a venerable ancestor. Thus the workaround of gifting your heir the title before death. If you don't have ancestor veneration, you can just let your heirinherit the title normally. You won't lose it to some priest. Autocephalus indeed makes your court chaplain your religious head, like it does with Othodox Christians. appropriatemetaphor posted:Going for emperor then before my king dies and all these vassals get away. You lose river sailing, boat discounts and prepared invasions upon reforming. Sons of Ragnarok gives those back to you, there's never a reason not to take this. Reforming the religion is always right, because tribals will get crushed if the game goes on for long enough. By the way, be aware that rulers of your faith won't tell their court chaplains to convert their provinces unless your religion is proselytizing ot unyielding (and in unyielding, only zealous rulers have their chaplains convert provinces). This can drastically reduce the spread of your faith.
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Aug 11, 2019 10:25
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I’m giving this maybe my 5th go doing the Irish thing with some guide from a Reddit guy (I’m sorry). I’m taking things over when one of my counts claims the kingdom as his own. I wreck his first stack but then lose the next one. From then on I don’t have enough of an advantage to win and it gets into that cycle of retreat. However he never sieges my lands and just stays on his. During this time I’m messing around with bribes to my vassals in the hope I can raise more troops but realise he’s never sieging me but my war score is slowly ticking up as I’m still king. So I lower my levies and then straight away I can raise them back to almost full and I proceed to wreck him and end the war. What the hell was going on here? Why didn’t he siege? Why could I lower and raise straight away to get more troops?
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Aug 11, 2019 11:25
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From what I understand (but that's based on older videos and LPs), that's just a matter of how levy reinforcement works. Different unit types reinforce in different ways: mercs and retinue reinforce in place; event units don't reinforce at all, and levies reinforce at home, meaning the reinforcement number for any holding ticks up but you don't actually get access to those fresh troops until you raise the levies for that holding and you can't do that if it's already running around in the field. So what most likely happened was that you had lost some units, but enough time had passed to reinforce them back to the max number again — it just didn't show until you retired the old levies and raised fresh new ones. No idea about the non-siegeing, though. The AI sometimes does very odd things when trying to get a tactical advantage, such as pulling stacks way behind the battle front to gather up a larger stack under the command of a big centre stack (as opposed to just moving all those units to the front where they will have to go anyway). It also seems to (occasionally) take into account potential levies and prefer to go after weak provinces, so it may very well have been a case of it seeing your unrealised large stacks and just not daring to go there, instead running around to collect its own slowly-tricking-in reinforcements in an attempt to get up the stack-courage to really get in there.
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Aug 11, 2019 13:23
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I think it was changed so that levy armies so now slowly reinforce in place. In addition some event armies also reinforce.
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Aug 11, 2019 13:53
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Torrannor posted:By the way, be aware that rulers of your faith won't tell their court chaplains to convert their provinces unless your religion is proselytizing ot unyielding (and in unyielding, only zealous rulers have their chaplains convert provinces). This can drastically reduce the spread of your faith. I had no idea about this. No wonder it’s almost the end of the game in my Erik Bloodaxe run and I’m still having trouble with Christian vassals. I chose unyielding when reforming just because, so it’s probably not as a bad as it could’ve been, but now that I know this it feels like I’ll almost always have to choose proselytizing when reforming just to function.
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Aug 11, 2019 14:54
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Tippis posted:From what I understand (but that's based on older videos and LPs), that's just a matter of how levy reinforcement works. I’m still pretty used to EUIV where your armies will reinforce in place. So I guess if you can lower and then reraise levies that’s a good move in protracted wars?
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Aug 11, 2019 22:31
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Red_Fred posted:I’m still pretty used to EUIV where your armies will reinforce in place. So I guess if you can lower and then reraise levies that’s a good move in protracted wars? It'll depend where the armies are, blah blah, but yeah. You can see how many extra un-raised dudes you have available in the military tab, to help decide if it's worth it.
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Aug 11, 2019 22:38
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Red_Fred posted:I’m still pretty used to EUIV where your armies will reinforce in place. So I guess if you can lower and then reraise levies that’s a good move in protracted wars? Sort of. If your dudes are in your own territory and wouldn't have to get back to their home holding by boat, then yeah, go for it, you can more or less dismiss them and instantly re-raise them. If you aren't in your own territory or your dudes would have to take a ship, some of them will go missing while they teleport home.
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Aug 11, 2019 23:09
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Red_Fred posted:I’m giving this maybe my 5th go doing the Irish thing with some guide from a Reddit guy (I’m sorry). Depending on the year your in it’s possible he didn’t have enough dudes to meet the minimum numbers required to siege you out. In Ireland early on the raw troop numbers can be pretty small, so maybe he had just enough to beat you in a field battle but was only left with like 300 dudes.
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Aug 12, 2019 00:18
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Are minor epidemics (TB etc) as poo poo a mechanic as they seem? I haven't played in a long time so I'm doing a shattered world earliest start straight-up-munchkin run to learn about all the new DLC. It seems like my capital and the surrounding areas (basically the english channel coast) are constantly infected with one pox or another. Like literally the game has been going for ~30 years and I've had 4 minor epidemics lasting for 10-15 years total. It just seems crap, either I shut the gates and can't do a whole bunch of stuff, or everyone is constantly dying. Is this normal? Should I just straight up disable them in the rules next time? awesmoe fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 00:41
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If it's not the plague then don't even bother locking up your court. Just have a couple potential heirs getting educated far away or a big family and you're unlikely to get a game over.
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Aug 12, 2019 04:54
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I started a shattered world, earliest start date. It has been roughly 50 years and the Catholic church has a moral authority of 11. This is after me building several temples, winning a holy war, and completing the strengthen religion ambition. The Pope loving sucks (even though I previously reinstated the Pope after he lost the papal state...). I should just raise an antipope and replace the fucker shouldn't I? Also, how low have any of you seen the church's moral authority?
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Aug 12, 2019 05:43
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  This happened entirely without any intervention on my part, as I was learning the game in England.  Rapidly becoming addicted to this stupid game.
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Aug 12, 2019 05:48
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alpha_destroy posted:I started a shattered world, earliest start date. It has been roughly 50 years and the Catholic church has a moral authority of 11. This is after me building several temples, winning a holy war, and completing the strengthen religion ambition. The Pope loving sucks (even though I previously reinstated the Pope after he lost the papal state...). I should just raise an antipope and replace the fucker shouldn't I? All the way down to 0. Shattered World Greek start. Converted to Hellenic Pagan and then reformed. Wound up taking Rome from the Pope after fighting off half of Catholic Europe for the privilege. Christendom started imploding hard afterward.
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Aug 12, 2019 06:08
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What's the way to get piety and moral authority (I think?) for norse pagan? I want to reform but my piety blows and some % thing is below the 50 I need!
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Aug 12, 2019 06:11
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appropriatemetaphor posted:What's the way to get piety and moral authority (I think?) for norse pagan? I want to reform but my piety blows and some % thing is below the 50 I need! Go find some churches to raid.
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Aug 12, 2019 06:13
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So, right now I'm torn. For ages I've been planning on starting as a Norse character, then migrating to the Mediterranean islands (with my capital as Sardinia) before pillaging the catholic and muslim states for gold and eventually reforming. However, aren't the only holy sites up in Scandinavia and northern Europe? Since I'd ideally like to reform either before or after the migration, but I don't really want to have to spend ages to make an empire in order to reform, then eventually migrate and start from scratch as planned.  I haven't tried out the new crusade mechanics though, so I'm tempted to convert to catholicism after a couple hundred years of pillaging.I do think the new reformation mechanics would be better, though. How feasible would it be to leave obtaining the holy sites to the AI? Since surely if I'm frequently raiding and sacrificing the Pope (after burning Rome, of course) our moral authority will be good enough to reform.
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Aug 12, 2019 07:59
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alpha_destroy posted:I started a shattered world, earliest start date. It has been roughly 50 years and the Catholic church has a moral authority of 11. This is after me building several temples, winning a holy war, and completing the strengthen religion ambition. The Pope loving sucks (even though I previously reinstated the Pope after he lost the papal state...). I should just raise an antipope and replace the fucker shouldn't I? It's not (necessarily) the pope's fault that moral authority is that low — some of it is derived from his stats, sure, but you're unlikely to be able to quickly conjure up a better candidate in a hurry. Rather, it tends to be that the catholics are so busy murderising each other for any minor petty grievance that they forget about things like protecting their holy sites, or going after pagan ones, which means they start out low, get stomped, and keep going lower while other faiths have an easy time nuking all those juicy temples they leave around. The Catholics simply aren't in the best of positions at that time: two holy sites are outright owned by infidels; two are very vulnerable and will semi-reliably be taken over by pagans in short order; the AI loves launching holy wars that they lose, while everyone they are up against have the option to loot their temples for additional authority loss. In addition, they have a bajillion different heresies and variations that can pop up or that rules can trivially convert to, and Catholicism in particular is particularly susceptible to going into a heresy-loss spiral. They're given a spread bonus to compensate, but those early years are very ugly. So their sitting at 0.0 authority in the mid-800s is something I've seen in pretty much every early start I've played (granted, a lot of the time, it's because I was playing non-catholic and was actively driving them there to make larger realms fall apart to heretical infighting). The fact that it's shattered world probably explains why it's that high with an early start: everyone else is a shambles as well and too busy consolidating to do more harm. Hell, I've seen instances where some semi-large ruler of a (religious) border country has been personally responsible for 20%+ losses in authority: they have a hard-on for some claim held by an infidel, launch multiple failed holy wars, invite retaliatory raiding between the wars, and keeps getting heretical revolts that they also lose to. They usually get deposed or suffer a manure explosion after a while, but the one example I remember clearly had 2 lost holy wars (-6%) 3 lost heretical revolts (-15%) as well as several looted temples and probably a failed inquisition or two before they died. That's a nice 20-year dent to leave as a legacy.  As for an anti-pope, weeeeell… having one around hurts moral authority even more, and unless he's truly a vastly better candidate in terms of diplomacy and piety, it's not going to improve things. Anti-popes are great if you have an empire and want to have the entire papacy as a vassal, but other than that, they tend to cost more than they're worth. appropriatemetaphor posted:What's the way to get piety and moral authority (I think?) for norse pagan? I want to reform but my piety blows and some % thing is below the 50 I need! Do the opposite of the above: burn everything. If you're doing an early start and If it hasn't happened already, dig through all the garbage you need in order to get to Paderborn and secure it to make sure Irminsul does not get burned since that penalty will hit hard and stick around for quite some time. If you're particularly cheeky (and lucky), you might be able to capture and sacrifice the pope — that boosts everyone's confidence.
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Aug 12, 2019 08:03
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appropriatemetaphor posted:What's the way to get piety and moral authority (I think?) for norse pagan? I want to reform but my piety blows and some % thing is below the 50 I need! To add to what the others said: do county conquests. Those raise Moral Authority (the %-thingy) by 3 for each successful one.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:35
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DoubleNegative posted:Honestly, I wish that the "give someone an estate to govern" feature from CK2+ would be separated out into its own standalone mod. Or just incorporated into the base game. Can you explain this feature?
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Aug 12, 2019 18:50
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Anyone know how the Mongols are in Holy Fury? I'm having a ball as Liao in the Iron Century start, I have the Uiyghur Khanate in the Tarim Basin and U-Tsang as tributaries by 1000AD, so I'm bringing in cash and I'm going to be reforming Tengri when I get the piety. My horde is currently about ~10K guys (all horse archers natch) and about another ~10K in vassal clans. If I work on getting that to about 100k in horde levies by 1200 would I be in a good place to take them on?
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Aug 12, 2019 19:22
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hello i'm trying to learn this game after doing everything important in eu4. right now it's 780 and i'm some tribal guy on the volga river i have three cbs here, one for the de jure claim of the duchy of veliky ustug, and one each for its two composite counties. the duchy cb costs me 250 prestige and i have 500, is that worth it when the county cb are prestige free?? should i just go for one county and then again when the truce ends?? 
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Aug 12, 2019 20:48
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appropriatemetaphor posted:What's the way to get piety and moral authority (I think?) for norse pagan? I want to reform but my piety blows and some % thing is below the 50 I need! Piety is gained by religious focus and conquest wars. Moral Authority is gained by raiding and burning churches. Ireland is nothing but churches and tribal holdings. There are a lot of small countries all around the Baltic that are independent for county conquest wars. If you started in 867 or later, conquer a Fuedal Slavic duchy in Pomerania, and give one of your male relatives a town there, making them a mayor. Then give him the duchy and all the other holdings. You now have a northern viking merchant republic making your king money. Frisia is a great place for this as well, and you will see trade hubs up and down England, as well as getting you another holy site. if you have all 5 holy sites you can reform at any point, as well as gaining 10% moral authority. Ive had 2 Viking Merchant Republics under my Tribal viking Fylkir doing that 
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Aug 12, 2019 20:50
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Bloodly posted:Can you explain this feature? If a family member won't shut up about being given a fief of their own, and they're too much of an idiot to actually govern something important like a temple holding, then in CK2+ you eventually are allowed to just give them a small estate to govern. They shut up and become happy that they're allowed to be petty tyrants over their own personal manor.
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Aug 12, 2019 20:54
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