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It's important that we address the root cause of gun violence, which is *checks notes* people committing crimes
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Aug 11, 2019 17:12
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infernal machines posted:It is being published not out of a genuine concern for our communities and marginalized peoples, No poo poo, it's being published out of genuine concern of gun violence, as it's pretty clearly titled. If Brian Lilley really is Toronto journalism hitler or whatever, he probably doesn't care about the youth that are dragged into gang violence etc insofar as caring about the actual people, like this article isn't his sob story about the troubled youth. It's just a means to an end of combating gun violence. The tough on crime thing is a bit confusing, and the "gang crime" dog whistling sucks. The actual issue there is that penalties for gun crimes are decreasing for some reason. The soft on crime angle shouldn't be applied to gun crime. Also marginalized youth being susceptible to gang poo poo is only part of the gun violence equation, although it's part of other equations too. The border smuggling is another huge thing that anti-gun types love to ignore. Jehde has issued a correction as of 17:15 on Aug 11, 2019 |
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Aug 11, 2019 17:12
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To that end, jailing everyone possessing a firearm seems like a genuine solution to the issue of gun crime.
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Aug 11, 2019 17:14
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Helsing posted:You think mandatory minimum sentences and more restrictive parole is a sensible policy for addressing gun violence? I think there should be less gun "crimes" (i.e. it's currently illegal to take a registered gun to the gunsmith if you some how get a live round stuck in the chamber at the range, unless you get a permission slip, which you can only get during business hours on weekdays  ), but that gun crimes that actually mean anything to public safety (i.e. brandishing a weapon) are more harshly penalised.
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Aug 11, 2019 17:23
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Jehde posted:I think there should be less gun "crimes" (i.e. it's currently illegal to take a registered gun to the gunsmith if you some how get a live round stuck in the chamber at the range, unless you get a permission slip, which you can only get during business hours on weekdays What is your underlying assumption here? That the people who commit gun crime are highly rational and risk averse and will therefore calculate that with the increased sentencing they can no longer optimize their utility by flexing on a guy who disrespects them?
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Aug 11, 2019 17:26
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Helsing posted:You think mandatory minimum sentences and more restrictive parole is a sensible policy for addressing The answer to a question that starts like this is always no.
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Aug 11, 2019 17:27
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Jehde posted:I think there should be less gun "crimes" (i.e. it's currently illegal to take a registered gun to the gunsmith if you some how get a live round stuck in the chamber at the range, unless you get a permission slip, which you can only get during business hours on weekdays lets be fair here, a live chambered round is a really big deal. The chance of it firing is pretty loving low, but its still a really potentially dangerous thing to transport. Certainly some allowances could be made if you can properly disassemble the weapon and make it safe, which is pretty easy and most gun owners could do. You can see though how it would be easy to abuse that, or if you are stupid create a potentially lethal situation on your way to the gunsmith.
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Aug 11, 2019 17:30
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Or you could have someone at the range who knows how to clear your stoppages for you.
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Aug 11, 2019 17:33
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flakeloaf posted:Or you could have someone at the range who knows how to clear your stoppages for you. For sure, but i can imagine scenarios where that's not possible. Like hunting or something. The law is clearly meant to cover all situations, and seems unfair if you've got a .223 stuck in a dissembled AR upper. However, it seems pretty appropriate if you've got a .303 stuck in your rifle with the bolt somehow locked forward.
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Aug 11, 2019 17:38
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Virtual Russian posted:For sure, but i can imagine scenarios where that's not possible. Like hunting or something. but my ~gun rights~ it's a murder tool, you shouldn't have any of them
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Aug 11, 2019 17:39
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Arivia posted:but my ~gun rights~ Yeah i agree in essence. I think there is a case to be made for citizen militias and long arm rifle ownership, but even that should be pretty restrictive. Total ban on handguns though.
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Aug 11, 2019 17:44
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Canada SPAM - We have gun bullshit too.
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Aug 11, 2019 17:47
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Virtual Russian posted:Yeah i agree in essence. I think there is a case to be made for citizen militias and long arm rifle ownership, but even that should be pretty restrictive. no. no loving militias, no excuses for yellow vests to go armed, none of this bullshit. you maybe get one rifle if you're a trapper or farmer or something but that's it.
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Aug 11, 2019 17:50
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https://twitter.com/ppc_stpauls/status/1160438851070058496 https://twitter.com/palevell/status/1160587249895059457 infernal machines has issued a correction as of 18:00 on Aug 11, 2019 |
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Aug 11, 2019 17:58
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"Catholic"
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Aug 11, 2019 18:03
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infernal machines posted:https://twitter.com/ppc_stpauls/status/1160438851070058496 Yo infernal we gonna crash this meeting?
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Aug 11, 2019 18:04
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Helsing posted:What is your underlying assumption here? That the people who commit gun crime are highly rational and risk averse and will therefore calculate that with the increased sentencing they can no longer optimize their utility by flexing on a guy who disrespects them? That there's some element in gang dynamics that's "do the crime and eat the 5 years, we'll look after you when you're out." I admit I know gently caress all about gangs, prison, how to appropriately sentence anything, or how rehabilitation works, other people will be way more educated about that stuff. My relative niche expertise is <--- that thing. I think decreasing penalties for gun crimes, while adding more gun crimes, seems a bit silly though.
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Aug 11, 2019 18:06
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Another Bill posted:Yo infernal we gonna crash this meeting? I'm curious just how many people I'd recognize. I'm also curious whether they'll be saying the quiet part out loud or if they're going to try to downplay Mad Max's wild xenophobia for the UofT crowd.
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Aug 11, 2019 18:10
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infernal machines posted:I'm curious just how many people I'd recognize. I'm also curious whether they'll be saying the quiet part out loud or if they're going to try to downplay Mad Max's wild xenophobia for the UofT crowd. Doesn't matter, no one will hear the speech over the blaring fire alarm that keeps getting pulled for some reason?
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Aug 11, 2019 18:15
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Jehde posted:That there's some element in gang dynamics that's "do the crime and eat the 5 years, we'll look after you when you're out." I admit I know gently caress all about gangs, prison, how to appropriately sentence anything, or how rehabilitation works, other people will be way more educated about that stuff. My relative niche expertise is <--- that thing. You know it kind of sounds like you weren't in a position to evaluate how good or bad that article was and defended it out of some kind of bizarre tribal reflex! Nah just kidding anyone who read that article should have immediately known it was poo poo.
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Aug 11, 2019 18:16
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guns are dumb
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Aug 11, 2019 18:16
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https://twitter.com/classiclib3ral/status/1160297141811777536 re: gun control, this shooter only killed one person at the mosque because he couldn't get access to a semi-automatic rifle. Because Norway banned them. Crazy how that works right?
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Aug 11, 2019 18:17
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Another Bill posted:Doesn't matter, no one will hear the speech over the blaring fire alarm that keeps getting pulled for some reason? Weird how that keeps happening at these events. I'm glad they're serious about fire safety though.
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Aug 11, 2019 18:18
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Helsing posted:You know it kind of sounds like you weren't in a position to evaluate how good or bad that article was and defended it out of some kind of bizarre tribal reflex! like 9/10 of Jehde's posts in this thread are telling us that everyone in the world should own a gun no matter what the inciting story was
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Aug 11, 2019 18:23
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Helsing posted:You know it kind of sounds like you weren't in a position to evaluate how good or bad that article was and defended it out of some kind of bizarre tribal reflex! infernal machines dog whistled about how much they hate gun ownership in response to an article that's trying to talk about guns beyond "just ban guns", the one pro-gun dude that dares to wade into canpol felt the need to let them know the things brought up in the article are the things we need to talk about to address gun violence, not something to dismiss as disingenuous out of bias. I realize my position is super unpopular, but gently caress letting hysterics go unchecked. "I wonder why the guy with a gun in his title cares so much about gun politics"  Wanna talk about bizarre tribal reflexes, check out people jumping to their ideal gun ban that will totally fix the issue of gun violence. It's bizarre how trivial the issue is to some people. Jehde has issued a correction as of 19:30 on Aug 11, 2019 |
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Aug 11, 2019 19:25
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Guns OK, ban incels by like 22 or so.
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Aug 11, 2019 19:32
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Jehde posted:the one pro-gun dude Persecution complex much. You're not the only one, nor are you daring to do some great feat by posting here. That article was bad, and was only meant to dodge real issues, and in doing so suggests measure that will only serve to increase the actual systemic causes of gun violence. As someone who used a bunch of guns, enjoys shooting, actively participated in competitive shooting, and is a former CF member I firmly lay the blame for the polarization on this issue at the feet of the pro-gun lobby and their supporters. These people have completely shut down a reasonable debate or hope of compromise, and completely shut out anyone that enjoys guns but can see a need for regulation. When you adopt an all-or-nothing approach, and foster a culture hostile to anything else it just makes sense that your opponents will do the same. If that article is the best the pro-gun folks can offer just ban all guns.
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Aug 11, 2019 20:19
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Bit of a chicken and egg situation eh? I wonder how it got started... There's tonnes of poo poo that can be done to address gun violence which pro-gun people support, some of which is brought up in that article, but anti-gun zealots won't entertain anything that doesn't include gun bans. It's almost like it's a disingenuous stance to get one on legal gun owners as part of some dumb gently caress culture war instead of addressing an actual problem. And you bet your rear end I have no patience for fashy quislings, but that's not really a gunpol specific thing.
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Aug 11, 2019 20:36
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Jehde posted:infernal machines dog whistled about how much they hate gun ownership I did no such thing e: For one thing, I don't hate gun ownership, if you think I do that may speak to your own persecution complex more than anything. infernal machines has issued a correction as of 20:50 on Aug 11, 2019 |
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Aug 11, 2019 20:42
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Jehde posted:infernal machines dog whistled about how much they hate gun ownership in response to an article that's trying to talk about guns beyond "just ban guns", the one pro-gun dude that dares to wade into canpol felt the need to let them know the things brought up in the article are the things we need to talk about to address gun violence, not something to dismiss as disingenuous out of bias. I realize my position is super unpopular, but gently caress letting hysterics go unchecked. The best way to harm a cause is to defend it badly.
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Aug 11, 2019 20:53
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“legal gun owners”
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Aug 11, 2019 20:54
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im sorry the thread title is bad 
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Aug 11, 2019 22:56
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Helsing posted:The best way to harm a cause is to defend it badly. I mean, if that were true we wouldn't be dealing with nazis again. Ignoring bullshit and letting it spread seems worse to me given recent history. I agree we could use something more... Canpoly in the title. Something to do with milkshakes and the dairy industry maybe?
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Aug 11, 2019 23:31
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Canada SPAM: my milkshake brings all the racists to the yard
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Aug 11, 2019 23:45
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I own a gun and think u r dum.
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Aug 12, 2019 00:01
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lol if you're a "leftist" and only want the agents of the bourgeois state to have access to guns
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Aug 12, 2019 00:25
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A Russian troll farm posted:lol if you're a "leftist" and only want the agents of the bourgeois state to have access to guns I insist upon paying the maximum amount of taxes possible so the state can arm itself and also buy cool law enforcement lavs.
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Aug 12, 2019 00:39
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i don't know why that's always the assumed dichotomy, like people haven't been shouting "disarm the police" for years.
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Aug 12, 2019 00:49
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Postess with the Mostest posted:buy cool law enforcement lavs. but... if we don't give them to the cops we'll have to sell them to the saudis
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Aug 12, 2019 00:51
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Disarm the cops and keep Fast Armed Response Teams on call, heh heh
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Aug 12, 2019 00:52
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