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Rinkles posted:did wotc not realize (something like) this was a very likely outcome of printing MH? Ask forgiveness not permission
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Aug 12, 2019 01:03
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something like this was a likely outcome, given how much they pushed into that set odds are good that one thing would be a little too strong in the environment. which is fine, it's probably still worth printing even if it results in some bans shortly thereafter. what's not fine is being unwilling to actually ban anything, and letting the format continue to be poo poo for multiple ban cycles.
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Aug 12, 2019 01:11
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Honestly, I think for all the problems Hogaak is causing in Modern, he allows for some interesting EDH and Legacy deck interactions. I prefer for them to swing a little too hard for the fences.
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Aug 12, 2019 01:25
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I'd rather have really cool and potentially busted cards that can get banned than cautious, boring ones that just make people say "but I'd rather just be playing X..."
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Aug 12, 2019 01:54
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Rinkles posted:did wotc not realize (something like) this was a very likely outcome of printing MH? yes how dare they print cards
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Aug 12, 2019 02:09
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Rinkles posted:did wotc not realize (something like) this was a very likely outcome of printing MH? I think the problem is, they banned Bridge. They missed.
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Aug 12, 2019 02:46
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Lone Goat posted:yes how dare they print cards Iirc they didn't want the set to be too disruptive. Also what Sheep posted. If they print something busted they're responsible for dealing with it.
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Aug 12, 2019 02:56
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horizons was kind of poorly designed because 99% of the cards were super fair. midrange and control got lots of cool new toys, none of which improved their bad machups in the slightest. wrenn and six, icefang coatl, etc. etc. do nothing against graveyard decks or big mana decks. they designed the cards based on what they'd like modern to look like and completely ignored reality
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Aug 12, 2019 03:10
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Framboise posted:I'd rather have really cool and potentially busted cards that can get banned than cautious, boring ones that just make people say "but I'd rather just be playing X..." I feel like these are the words of someone who didn't play during Urza block
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Aug 12, 2019 03:27
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:I feel like these are the words of someone who didn't play during Urza block or Kaladesh block
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Aug 12, 2019 03:31
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you're correct, I did not but a lot of the cards from then are indeed super cool and I'm glad they exist like I'm not saying that standard cards need to be at that level of broken but I enjoy it when they make really strong cards that toe the line of busted on the other hand I don't play standard anymore, and those same cards are somewhat less busted in EDH where your odds of hitting it are 1/100 and not 4/60.  E: I did play during Kaladesh block, up until Reflector Mage got banned and it wasn't as fun to play.
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Aug 12, 2019 03:34
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Jabor posted:something like this was a likely outcome, given how much they pushed into that set odds are good that one thing would be a little too strong in the environment. Except that's not what happened. Bridge got banned in the last announcement, because that version of Hogaak was exceptionally oppressive since it really had two lines of play (creature damage and milling) and was very possibly even worse than the version we're playing now. The next ban announcement is happening in a few weeks (26 August) and I don't think anyone is expecting Hogaak to survive this announcement. If it doesn't get banned at that point, then we're into a pretty bad graveyard winter scenario. Was their an expectation that the card would be banned before it started actually posting results? That's the kind of scenario that brings out dumb things like the ferocidon ban.
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Aug 12, 2019 03:34
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rkajdi posted:Except that's not what happened. Bridge got banned in the last announcement, because that version of Hogaak was exceptionally oppressive since it really had two lines of play (creature damage and milling) and was very possibly even worse than the version we're playing now. The next ban announcement is happening in a few weeks (26 August) and I don't think anyone is expecting Hogaak to survive this announcement. If it doesn't get banned at that point, then we're into a pretty bad graveyard winter scenario. the problem was that a lot of people, some of them in this very thread, knew and said before and immediately after the bridge ban that it wouldn’t be enough. bridge did nothing worth talking about in Modern for the entire history of the format, it was very clearly not the problem card
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Aug 12, 2019 03:39
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:the problem was that a lot of people, some of them in this very thread, knew and said before and immediately after the bridge ban that it wouldn’t be enough. bridge did nothing worth talking about in Modern for the entire history of the format, it was very clearly not the problem card Bridge not being the only problem doesnt mean it wasnt a problem. They should have hit bridge and another card together rather than spacing them out like this.
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Aug 12, 2019 03:44
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AnEdgelord posted:Bridge not being the only problem doesnt mean it wasnt a problem. Agreed. But the idea wotc should be banning things based on the braying of forum users before the deck even posts results would just result in basically everything worthwhile getting banned. You have to base this stuff on results, not what randos here or on Reddit want.
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Aug 12, 2019 03:53
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here's a thought: maybe they could actually build the obvious deck themselves and see how it plays out internally, when deciding whether a proposed ban is sufficient to tone down the ridonkulously best deck or if more cards need to be banned literally anybody who played with hogaak could see that yeah, this deck is still busted good even without bridge
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Aug 12, 2019 03:57
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The other clear issue with modern horizons is that the cards are too dang expensive. Them printing powerful cards but not being willing to react accordingly is another, but like others have said, I’d rather they push cards super hard than not.
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Aug 12, 2019 03:59
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It's complete loving bullshit that Wrenn and Six is $90 while is a box is barely over 200.
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Aug 12, 2019 04:02
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Tubgoat posted:It's complete loving bullshit that Wrenn and Six is $90 while is a box is barely over 200. As my one buddy noted, jund getting yet another super expensive card is basically on theme for them. Wren is playable in every format it's legal in, so of course it's expensive. It's legacy good, not just modern good.
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Aug 12, 2019 04:09
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I really want a RG walkers deck with Koth and Wrenn. :<
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Aug 12, 2019 04:12
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little munchkin posted:horizons was kind of poorly designed because 99% of the cards were super fair. midrange and control got lots of cool new toys, none of which improved their bad machups in the slightest. wrenn and six, icefang coatl, etc. etc. do nothing against graveyard decks or big mana decks. they designed the cards based on what they'd like modern to look like and completely ignored reality uh i get what you're saying but wrenn and six seems like a poor example since it allows for recurring ghost quarters against tron
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Aug 12, 2019 04:14
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A big flaming stink posted:uh i get what you're saying but wrenn and six seems like a poor example since it allows for recurring ghost quarters against tron
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Aug 12, 2019 04:23
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A big flaming stink posted:uh i get what you're saying but wrenn and six seems like a poor example since it allows for recurring ghost quarters against tron This is not a good idea though. Sounds nice in theory but Jund is too mana hungry for ghost quarter, I think.
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Aug 12, 2019 05:37
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:I feel like these are the words of someone who didn't play during Urza block Urza block had a lot of cool cards and designs and Magic would be lesser for its absence.
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Aug 12, 2019 05:57
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ZeroCount posted:Urza block had a lot of cool cards and designs and Magic would be lesser for its absence. 
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Aug 12, 2019 06:19
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A less broken but still powerful Urza block removing the broken stuff and replacing it with appropriate cards sounds fun. Edit Yeah that was worse then I remembered. Nevermind. Fantastic Alice fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 06:39
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Need the old cardface back, otherwise it's like someone trying to dress up like your dead best friend to cheer you up.
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Aug 12, 2019 06:42
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xanthan posted:A less broken but still powerful Urza block removing the broken stuff and replacing it with appropriate cards sounds fun. these words don't mean anything
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Aug 12, 2019 06:46
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ZeroCount posted:Urza block had a lot of cool cards and designs and Magic would be lesser for its absence. Urza block was so miserable that Maro and his whole team were pulled into an office an told they'd all be fired if they pulled any poo poo like that again Lone Goat posted:these words don't mean anything Seriously, I'm dying to know what design elements that poster thinks were good, but just needed timing down. "Free" spells are inherently broken, at least 2 of the land cycle were broken, etc I just looked at the list of mechanics in the block, Cycling was the only good one that was also balanced Ate My Balls Redux fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 06:47
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Holy poo poo on this Amonkhet-Singleton event I've played that mono Blue "Persistent Petitioners" deck and it's great because I'm playing mono black with graveyard recursion so I'm doing pretty well against it.
SalTheBard fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 06:53
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:Seriously, I'm dying to know what design elements that poster thinks were good, but just needed timing down. "Free" spells are inherently broken, at least 2 of the land cycle were broken, etc Maybe they really love *checks scryfall*... Verse counters????? Also while Cycling was balanced, they still managed to gently caress that up by printing Fluctuator!
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Aug 12, 2019 07:10
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:Urza block was so miserable that Maro and his whole team were pulled into an office an told they'd all be fired if they pulled any poo poo like that again What you're saying here and what they said are both true, is the thing. There were several egregious mistake cards in Urza block, out of hundreds of cards, which is obviously still several more than acceptable and is why they were called on the carpet, but once they banned all the horrible combos there was still a Standard (Type 2) format that was quite playable for another year and a half or so until it rotated out. Like, I could still to this day, off the top of my head, name you several distinctive Type 2 decks based on Urza block cards from the period after the dust had settled from all the bannings. I'm struggling to think of what the decks derived from Kaladesh block were after the energy cards were banned. There was a red deck with that courier dude I guess???
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Aug 12, 2019 07:40
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Lawnie posted:This is not a good idea though. Sounds nice in theory but Jund is too mana hungry for ghost quarter, I think. It works, better than playing Barren Moor. Mengucci in his latest article about Italian MCQs gives a Jund list that made top 8 playing 2 Field of Ruin, now that is greedy.
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Aug 12, 2019 09:39
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JerryLee posted:What you're saying here and what they said are both true, is the thing. There were several egregious mistake cards in Urza block, out of hundreds of cards, which is obviously still several more than acceptable and is why they were called on the carpet, but once they banned all the horrible combos there was still a Standard (Type 2) format that was quite playable for another year and a half or so until it rotated out. My hot take is that Kaladesh with a few cards banned is no big deal, and Marvel really isn't that big a deal when you can't get Emrakul with it. It's why not including it in Historic was pretty disappointing.
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Aug 12, 2019 10:46
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Oh hey, they took black out of Jund, replaced it with burn and made that deck more or less that I want Wrenn for. https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=22727&d=355178&f=MO
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Aug 12, 2019 11:53
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rkajdi posted:Except that's not what happened. Bridge got banned in the last announcement, because that version of Hogaak was exceptionally oppressive since it really had two lines of play (creature damage and milling) and was very possibly even worse than the version we're playing now. The next ban announcement is happening in a few weeks (26 August) and I don't think anyone is expecting Hogaak to survive this announcement. If it doesn't get banned at that point, then we're into a pretty bad graveyard winter scenario. I mean bridge was what made the deck splashy and unfair. Bridgegaak was absolutely more powerful, because it was doing exactly what it does now except it didn't need combat to win, and had an even stronger B plan. I can understand them only hitting the combo part and hoping the rest wasn't obscene. Turns out it still is, but oh well. I'd care more if I was living off of tournament winnings.
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Aug 12, 2019 13:30
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Lawnie posted:This is not a good idea though. Sounds nice in theory but Jund is too mana hungry for ghost quarter, I think. It is in fact not a winning idea. You put their forests into play while you never advance your mana base and eventually they just wurmcoil or Karn you and then you lose after doing nothing of value for a few turns.
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Aug 12, 2019 13:36
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A big flaming stink posted:uh i get what you're saying but wrenn and six seems like a poor example since it allows for recurring ghost quarters against tron it's actually a really good example because post-horizons the best gameplan jund has against tron is still "put a single ghost quarter in your sideboard and hope to get lucky"
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Aug 12, 2019 13:40
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jassi007 posted:It is in fact not a winning idea. You put their forests into play while you never advance your mana base and eventually they just wurmcoil or Karn you and then you lose after doing nothing of value for a few turns. Been there, about 500 times it seems like.
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Aug 12, 2019 13:41
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Panzeh posted:My hot take is that Kaladesh with a few cards banned is no big deal, and Marvel really isn't that big a deal when you can't get Emrakul with it. It's why not including it in Historic was pretty disappointing. Emrakul was gone in the first round of bannings that standard and the Marvel deck got even better. the super linear "just marvel for a big eldrazi" plan got stomped, so they rebuilt as a value creature deck that occasionally just dropped an ulamog on your opponent. It was much more consistent and oppressive to play against.
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Aug 12, 2019 14:30
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