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So, being only vaguely aware of the whole Dexit situation, I had a pretty long conversation with my friend about it all. We both are firmly on the side of not minding the whole thing, but he was playing devil’s advocate. In my eyes, this happened once before with losing (permanently) all of the pre Ruby/Sapphire Pokémon, and while I wasn’t as online then as now, I imagine people were upset but obviously got over it. What is so different about this situation other than the internet becoming an echo chamber of people repeating the same complaints and then feeding off one another? My friend’s rationale is that the development time spent on Dynamax and Gigantomax could have gone to bringing over the full dex. My argument is that that’s likely not true, and even if it were, Game Freak would be blasted for not adding a new gimmick after megas and Z-moves. Also, am I completely nuts in thinking that either the inevitable 3rd version or DPPt remakes will bring back the full dex and/or patching SwSh?
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Aug 12, 2019 16:18
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Nanigans posted:
No, but they're pretty clearly testing the waters. Again the big difference between this and R/S/E was that all the pokemon were programmed into R/S/E even if you couldn't catch them. Like you could still glitch or gameshark in a Mew and eventually trade them in. The missing ones literally won't exist in Sw/Sh's data. Also there isn't a chance in hell they patch Pokemon in post release. Like we've seen them add a bunch of things like Megas or new monsters mid generation and they've never patched older games to have them. The best shot is a hypothetical DPP remake or 3rd version has them.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:28
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I’m sure a future Pokémon game will have the capability to have like... 1000 Pokémon in it. I’m guessing Home and such are all a stopgap until they figure that out because they have an insane 1 game a year schedule and it’s probably a great selling point for whatever game they add them all back in
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Aug 12, 2019 16:36
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Nanigans posted:In my eyes, this happened once before with losing (permanently) all of the pre Ruby/Sapphire Pokémon, and while I wasn’t as online then as now, I imagine people were upset but obviously got over it. I never did get over it tbh and still mourn them
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Aug 12, 2019 16:37
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Zore posted:No, but they're pretty clearly testing the waters. I think suggesting that Gameshark was a viable/popular option is unfair. If you wanted every Pokémon, you needed something like 6 games in Gen 3, no? Ruby, Sapphire, FR, LG, and the two N64 games, right? Theoretically, this gen will be a lot easier since you can always trade online. Also, regarding the chance of patches, megas seemed like ultimately a gimmick for that generation, and probably carries less weight/importance than entirely missing Pokémon. But you could also be absolutely right, I just don’t think it’s as impossible as you’re saying.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:39
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Nth Doctor posted:Isn't there a fake site for these interactions you can use by abusing dns? A quick search resulted in this http://pkmnclassic.net/
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Aug 12, 2019 16:43
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I’m sure a future Pokémon game will have the capability to have like... 1000 Pokémon in it. I’m guessing Home and such are all a stopgap until they figure that out because they have an insane 1 game a year schedule and it’s probably a great selling point for whatever game they add them all back in There just needs to be some world-ending crisis for Pokemon and then they can just reset the entire premise to Poke Mad Max
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Aug 12, 2019 16:44
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Nanigans posted:So, being only vaguely aware of the whole Dexit situation, I had a pretty long conversation with my friend about it all. We both are firmly on the side of not minding the whole thing, but he was playing devil’s advocate. Pokemon was around for 6 years at the time and also data for every single Pokemon still existed in those games. You could port in Johto Pokemon from Colosseum, you could bring back Pokemon from Kanto in FRLG with no problems.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:45
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Nanigans posted:So, being only vaguely aware of the whole Dexit situation, I had a pretty long conversation with my friend about it all. We both are firmly on the side of not minding the whole thing, but he was playing devil’s advocate. The issue is that not having the entire pokedex is confirmed to be the norm for all titles onwards, and the excuses for that so far have been very poor.
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Aug 12, 2019 16:49
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It still seems a weird decision to me. No one would mind if they just copied in the models, animations and move lists from Gen 7, at least for the mons not available in the normal game. Is it a game balance thing? Given the huge cottage industry around competitive Pokémon tiers already I assumed they weren't that concerned about it for their game design. And they already didn't have a complete Pokédex in gen 7 so it's not about that. I don't even mind the decision that much, I just don't understand it. I'm sure there'll be simulators that let you do mockup battles with everything within a few minutes of release anyway.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:00
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Nanigans posted:So, being only vaguely aware of the whole Dexit situation, I had a pretty long conversation with my friend about it all. We both are firmly on the side of not minding the whole thing, but he was playing devil’s advocate. People got over it because it was only a temporary state. You had Colliseum, and then FRLG that brought the missing Pokemon back, and the next generation after that intoduced online trading so it became trivial to get the dudes you were missing. As far as we know, that won't happen here.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:26
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Tenebrais posted:It still seems a weird decision to me. No one would mind if they just copied in the models, animations and move lists from Gen 7, at least for the mons not available in the normal game. That's usually the answer to these kinds of questions in games, by the way. If it seems like there was a super easy fix to some obvious problem that wasn't implemented... well, the fix probably wasn't easy.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:31
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Amppelix posted:If it was this easy, they would have done it. That’s exactly my thinking. People assume game dev is as easy as pressing a button and it’s just not. This whole dexit thing reeks of entitlement. Also, I haven’t seen confirmation anywhere that they’re never going to have the full dex available again. I’d genuinely like to see the link to that.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:46
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Nanigans posted:That’s exactly my thinking. People assume game dev is as easy as pressing a button and it’s just not. This whole dexit thing reeks of entitlement. https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-06-17-you-can-no-longer-catch-em-all-in-pokemon-sword-and-shield This is mostly what people are citing
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Aug 12, 2019 17:51
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Amppelix posted:If it was this easy, they would have done it. Which makes the overly high polygon counts for a 3DS title models and the unused walk and running animations in US/UM even more of a failure of development. All this future proofing for naught.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:51
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So I'm doing a Thing where I do "all" the postgame stuff with one Pokemon (and rotating teammates). Still trying to decide if I'm going to keep suffering through Platinum's Battle Frontier (I can't get Gold Rank on Battle Arcade to save my life; at some point I always gently caress up and hit "swap teams" and get wrecked by my own dudes) or move on now that I've beaten Battle Tower Singles and Doubles. But my question: is there anything White 1 has that Black 2 doesn't? Other than a quick blast-thru of it's elite four; I'm not going to do all the Battle Subway poo poo there in W1 and do it all over again in B2. As far as I can tell the answer is no but maybe someone here's played them again more recently.
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Aug 12, 2019 17:52
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Nanigans posted:That’s exactly my thinking. People assume game dev is as easy as pressing a button and it’s just not. This whole dexit thing reeks of entitlement. When you’re paying 50% more for something it’s not entitlement friend
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Aug 12, 2019 18:15
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Yeah, the only "easy" fix for this situation was not to develop USUM or LGPE. Taking 0 breaks all of last gen for their longest streak of games yet, half of which are their first HD Console games, is a massive toll. I'd also be super cool with patching them in over time. But as recent as 2017 they refused to patch compatibility in SM, so not gonna expect anything.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:38
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The next Pokemon games won't have a A/B, each individual game will have a unique set of randomized 'mons you can catch. 
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Aug 12, 2019 18:42
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Silver Falcon posted:People got over it because it was only a temporary state. You had Colliseum, and then FRLG that brought the missing Pokemon back, and the next generation after that intoduced online trading so it became trivial to get the dudes you were missing. As far as we know, that won't happen here. It wasn't exactly "temporary" because while eventually every species was eventually able to come along, everyone still forever lost the actual individuals they'd grown attached too. Like every generation is "missing" a ton of species, the problem now is that you're buds are gone. There was no real doomsaying about Gen 5 having no old species because we could bring up our old individual buds. And I personally know (and agree with) people who were and remain pissed as hell about the Gen 2-3 Berlin Wall. And even that had a much better if still meh excuse with "incompatible data structures". Plus it's even worser now for a variety of game reasons. First of course it's even more games and like 1000 pokemon missing than only two games withe about 250. Second because of all the things like breeding and transfer only moves and such people have built up that just wasn't there to lose between 2-3. And lets be honest, the third reason is that no one trusts gamefreak about keeping around online transfer infrastructure. people are suspicious (and with good reason) that in the near future Bank will be taken offline (first the Gen 5 transfer, then everything else) and anything you don't rush into SM/USUM and then to Home will be left to die just like Gen 1-2.
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Aug 12, 2019 19:16
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:Yeah, the only "easy" fix for this situation was not to develop USUM or LGPE. Taking 0 breaks all of last gen for their longest streak of games yet, half of which are their first HD Console games, is a massive toll. I think the complete lack of a break explains a lot about why I haven’t really liked a Pokemon game since X/Y
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Aug 12, 2019 19:22
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I get the feeling people who haven't gotten a Switch yet (either waiting for a revision or a "Real Pokemon Game") are adding to the negative comments, not realizing their save data is locked to the console and not on the cartridge.
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Aug 12, 2019 19:31
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TheKingofSprings posted:When you’re paying 50% more for something it’s not entitlement friend Pretty sure Let’s Go Eevee cost me over $50...
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Aug 12, 2019 19:34
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The Pokémon Company made $80 million dollars in profit in 2018. I’m going to be totally honest here and say I don’t fully understand the distribution of profits and costs between Nintendo, Gamefreak and the Pokémon Company. But it’s difficult for me to imagine that supporting every Pokémon in the new game would cost more than around $2 million.
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Aug 12, 2019 19:56
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The Pokémon Company works for Nintendo and Game Freak
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Aug 12, 2019 20:08
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I feel that a lot of negativity surrounding dexit is mostly out of fear and uncertainty. The game isn't out yet so there's a ton we don't know: How many monsters are not being included, and how much is being included to make up for that.nrook posted:I’m going to be totally honest here and say I don’t fully understand the distribution of profits and costs between Nintendo, Gamefreak and the Pokémon Company. But it’s difficult for me to imagine that supporting every Pokémon in the new game would cost more than around $2 million. I honestly don't think it's a lack of time and funds, but I feel its a deliberate decision to not include a certain percentage. Probably do avoid bloat, which is most likely also the reason that they don't include certain features in later games despite being well loved by a section of the fanbase.
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Aug 12, 2019 20:13
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galagazombie posted:It wasn't exactly "temporary" because while eventually every species was eventually able to come along, everyone still forever lost the actual individuals they'd grown attached too. Like every generation is "missing" a ton of species, the problem now is that you're buds are gone. There was no real doomsaying about Gen 5 having no old species because we could bring up our old individual buds. I... wasn't saying that the gen 2>3 break was worse than what's happening now or... any of that other stuff? I was offering an explanation of why (maybe?) there was less outcry back then about it other than "not as many people online." As to your last point, I would hope they wouldn't just pull the plug on older gen transfers without warning. Likely they'd give plenty of advance warning and you'd have time to get all the dudes you care about into Bank/Home or wherever. I just don't see a scenario where they'd yank support for that without ample warning.
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Aug 12, 2019 20:15
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People are also upset because we have no idea what Pokémon Home is about aside from what was presented at that investors meeting several months back (Bank as a mobile app and being able to trade with others who also have Home). Most people are equating it to a prison and aren't really fathoming that Pokémon not in Sword and Shield will be useful in future titles. Fans are asking "Why can't they be usable now?"
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Aug 12, 2019 20:26
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Zuzie posted:I feel that a lot of negativity surrounding dexit is mostly out of fear and uncertainty. The game isn't out yet so there's a ton we don't know: How many monsters are not being included, and how much is being included to make up for that. Agreed. Had Masuda said there would be over 600 pokemon in Galar or something, it would have soften the blowback a lot.
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Aug 12, 2019 20:26
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:Agreed. Had Masuda said there would be over 600 pokemon in Galar or something, it would have soften the blowback a lot. A combination of this, and not knowing what features will be included in Home. People are upset that, once they transfer a Mon over to Home, it will basically be stuck in Limbo until a new game releases that includes them, because while you can import Pokemon into Home, at the time of its release Sword/Shield will be the only place you can move them OUT of Home to. You won't be able to send them backwards back to Bank or US/UM or whatever. So people are concerned about a) the number of pokemon being exluded and b) having literally nothing to do with mons they put in Home that aren't in Sw/Sh.
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Aug 12, 2019 20:34
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Nanigans posted:Pretty sure Let’s Go Eevee cost me over $50... Last game I bought was ~45, LGP/E was even less worth it to me personally
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Aug 12, 2019 20:51
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The 3DS games were worth $60, and they sold it to you at a loss because charging more than $39.99 MSRP for a 3DS game would have caused a riot.
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Aug 12, 2019 21:20
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me and my squad goin clubbin https://twitter.com/mpika_25_99/status/1158697635408039937
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Aug 12, 2019 21:49
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Did you forget your fursuit again?
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Aug 12, 2019 21:51
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I see it as something that would inevitably have to eventually happen, whatever the actual reason why they decided to do it now. More models every gen and their gradually growing fidelity becomes unsustainable at some point even when your product prints money. Scaling production isn't just a question of budget.
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Aug 12, 2019 21:54
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less laughter posted:me and my squad goin clubbin Where is Mimikyu?
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Aug 12, 2019 21:55
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Takoluka posted:The 3DS games were worth $60, and they sold it to you at a loss quote:sold it to you at a loss That’s a nah from me, chief
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Aug 12, 2019 21:59
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Assumed that was sarcasm
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Aug 12, 2019 22:02
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The amount of content in the 3DS games was 100% worth more than they charged.
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Aug 12, 2019 22:06
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And LGPE was the opposite so it evens out
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Aug 12, 2019 22:13
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