[Latin America] Lulag Archipelago

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Latin America] Lulag Archipelago

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

I don�t think anyone thinks that no one is starving, but Maduro doesn�t really have much to do with it.

like getting rid of Maduro and putting anew guy in charge isn�t really going to change that

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:06

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 15:11

536: Mar 18, 2019; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Captain Billy Pissboy posted:

People are starving because of us intervention dumbass

and they were starving for 2+ years before because of their own gov? so both are bad. starving isn't this magical thing that just started because trump is bad.

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:06

536: Mar 18, 2019; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

CharlestheHammer posted:

I don�t think anyone thinks that no one is starving, but Maduro doesn�t really have much to do with it.

like getting rid of Maduro and putting anew guy in charge isn�t really going to change that

You have one thats very vocal that has posted a dozen times that he doesn't believe the food crisis is real.

There are a few others that are hard skeptics that post poo poo like google reviews of restaurants that somehow proves the poor aren't starving.

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:06

3: Aug 26, 2006; The Magic Number; College Slice

536 posted:

and they were starving for 2+ years before because of their own gov? so both are bad. starving isn't this magical thing that just started because trump is bad.

lmao you really are this stupid, i was convinced this was a bit for a while

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:07

Captain Billy Pissboy: Oct 25, 2005; by Nyc_Tattoo; College Slice

536 posted:

and they were starving for 2+ years before because of their own gov? so both are bad. starving isn't this magical thing that just started because trump is bad.

Again, how is the government responsible for the privately owned food and grocery industry profiteering?

Also I'm sure the us backed coup in 2002 totally didn't discourage foreign companies from doing business in Venezuela

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:08

Zidrooner: Jul 20, 2006; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

536 posted:

You have one thats very vocal that has posted a dozen times that he doesn't believe the food crisis is real.

There are a few others that are hard skeptics that post poo poo like google reviews of restaurants that somehow proves the poor aren't starving.

Those are both either just intentional strawmen or you misunderstanding what people said then refusing to acknowledge the multiple clarifications they have posted because it's convenient to you. It would make for a lovely discussion if it weren't very funny how incredibly dumb you sound

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:13

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

536 posted:

and they were starving for 2+ years before because of their own gov? so both are bad. starving isn't this magical thing that just started because trump is bad.

oh my god you literally think that US fuckery only started recently lmao that's just precious

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:13

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3: Nov 15, 2003

536 posted:

I'm anti foreign intervention in any form . I'm just not so blinded by the sickle I can't tell people are legit starving. I'm more hoping the regular people in the army get so fed up that change happens.

Sanctions are foreign intervention. Embargoes are foreign intervention.

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:13

RealityWarCriminal: Aug 10, 2016

Problem is Maduro didn't behead enough food barons

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:15

Captain Billy Pissboy: Oct 25, 2005; by Nyc_Tattoo; College Slice

I absolutely love d&d libs accusing cspam of groupthink. It's my favorite kind of projection

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:16

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

I see you kind of ignored my point that changing leaders doesn�t actually do anything about the food issues. outside getting the sanctions lifted but the endgame of that is neoliberal policy.

which means bye bye social programs

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:16

RealityWarCriminal: Aug 10, 2016

Drake no: social programs
Drake yes: social pogroms

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:18

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Captain Billy Pissboy posted:

I absolutely love d&d libs accusing cspam of groupthink. It's my favorite kind of projection

they're literally coming here from the thread that has, on multiple occasions no less, tried to get the mods to ban all dissenting opinions lmao

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:18

Frijolero: Jan 24, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo

hosed up of WikiLeaks to elect Donald Trump. It's not even a registered voter!!!!

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:18

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

starve em all and let god sort em out - nicolas maduro

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:20

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

Cerebral Bore posted:

they're literally coming here from the thread that has, on multiple occasions no less, tried to get the mods to ban all dissenting opinions lmao

when the invasion starts, any negative news about bad things caused by the invasion will be banned from that thread and asking fnox if he's happy now will be a probateable offense

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:20

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

the goal is to kill the poorest of Venezuelan citizens until they agree to let the US come in and steal everything that isn't nailed down and leave them with a puppet to keep the spoils flowing northward while rewarding the colonial collaborators who were spared from the initial killings as well

there's literally nothing else there, there is no humanitarian or just motive to anything, you cannot pitch a situation where anything gets even a little bit better in any tiny way wherein the US is also still involved in any way, shape, or form, because it's fundamentally incoherent, unless you consider "the rich get richer and the poor are turned into slaves" as getting better

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:21

420 Gank Mid: Dec 26, 2008; WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

536 posted:

Pretty sure it was him quoting that one super dork mod that is a ukraine famine truther who was all "holodomor was actually a very good communist diet program and actually saved lives hth"

Lmao. Incredible how fast this guy went from 'just asking questions about Venezuela' to parroting literal neonazi propaganda

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:24

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

536 posted:

Catch me up here, do we hate wikileaks because they elected trump or do we love them because they support russia and venezuela?

read killing hope you stupid loving moronic liberal

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:32

Captain Billy Pissboy: Oct 25, 2005; by Nyc_Tattoo; College Slice

comedyblissoption posted:

read killing hope you stupid loving moronic liberal

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:33

536: Mar 18, 2019; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

420 Gank Mid posted:

Lmao. Incredible how fast this guy went from 'just asking questions about Venezuela' to parroting literal neonazi propaganda

umm im pretty sure you are not understanding that post at all. unless somehow recognizing a famine is a neo-nazi thing? what?

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:34

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

536 posted:

and they were starving for 2+ years before because of their own gov? so both are bad. starving isn't this magical thing that just started because trump is bad.

Serious response: the core of the crisis is that oil shocks and other economic trouble led to a decrease in subsidy for imported food. The problem is that VZ is an economy that depends on selling oil and buying everything else. (It should be noted that there isn't a shortage of food like in a famine but a lack of money to buy the food) The arguments against the govt management are basically that they mismanaged the state expenditures and thus they couldn't afford to subsidize the food. But the country was already going to be facing severe financial problems, theres absolutely no evidence that any US friendly opposition wouldnt just also be incredibly corrupt except siphoning money to US interests, and the US has been prolonging the crisis by loving with their finances. For comparison, VZ had major food shocks in 1989 and 1998 (might have that second date off a bit) from basically the same causes while under a US friendly pro capitalist govt- in 89 unrest escalated to the point the govt was gunning down hundreds of people and assassinating dissidents

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:35

Frijolero: Jan 24, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo

Not to mention that the historically-loving-bonkers drops in oil price in 2008 and again in 2014 were both caused by the US.

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:44

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Frijolero posted:

Not to mention that the historically-loving-bonkers drops in oil price in 2008 and again in 2014 were both caused by the US.

Like the debt crises of the 80s (which caused the 89 riots) that's probably more of a happy side effect

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:47

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

Captain Billy Pissboy posted:

I absolutely love d&d libs accusing cspam of groupthink. It's my favorite kind of projection

I understand where they're coming from, even if it's extremely dumb and wrong. To those people, we're literally like people denying that the US Civil War happening or something. To them, we're taking a contrary position to something so incredibly self-evident that that's no need to provide direct evidence for it.

I can sympathize with it to an extent. These people have been taught to always support things with evidence, but they can't comprehend that reliable unbiased evidence simply doesn't always exist. There is no Reliable Source where you can get the unfiltered True Scoop about Venezuela, and they aren't willing to acknowledge that US media like WaPo or the NYTimes is literally no more reliable than Telesur on the topic of Venezuela (and honestly probably significantly less reliable).

edit: Probably the #1 biggest flaw in their logic is that they seem to believe that, in the absence of reliable evidence, you should just believe whatever seems to be the mainstream consensus. Like when that "aid truck" was set on fire, they assumed that the default truth should be the perspective set by the mainstream media (that Maduro or his supporters did it), and that evidence must be supplied proving otherwise. If we hadn't been lucky enough to have access to actual video directly proving that narrative wrong, they would have continued believing it.

Reasonable people who aren't idiots might see this and come to the conclusion of "you shouldn't believe anything US media says about this stuff absent very clear and direct evidence." But these people are not the sharpest tools in the shed, and they keep returning to the default perspective of "believe what the media says until proven otherwise," even when the standard of proof they require often doesn't exist and the media in question has been shown to repeatedly lie.

Ytlaya has issued a correction as of 21:54 on Aug 13, 2019

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:49

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

quote:

We can all agree I think that US foreign policy must be changed and that to achieve that the mind � not to mention the heart and soul � of the American public must be changed. But what do you think is the main barrier to achieving such a change in the American mind?

Each of you I�m sure has met many people who support American foreign policy, with whom you�ve argued and argued. You point out one horror after another, from Vietnam to Iraq to Libya; from bombings and invasions to torture. And nothing helps. Nothing moves these people.

Now why is that? Do these people have no social conscience? Are they just stupid? I think a better answer is that they have certain preconceptions. Consciously or unconsciously, they have certain basic beliefs about the United States and its foreign policy, and if you don�t deal with these basic beliefs you may as well be talking to a stone wall.

The most basic of these basic beliefs, I think, is a deeply-held conviction that no matter what the US does abroad, no matter how bad it may look, no matter what horror may result, the government of the United States means well. American leaders may make mistakes, they may blunder, they may lie, they may even on many occasions cause more harm than good, but they do mean well. Their intentions are always honorable, even noble. Of that the great majority of Americans are certain.

Frances Fitzgerald, in her famous study of American school textbooks, summarized the message of these books: �The United States has been a kind of Salvation Army to the rest of the world: throughout history it had done little but dispense benefits to poor, ignorant, and diseased countries. The U.S. always acted in a disinterested fashion, always from the highest of motives; it gave, never took.�

And Americans genuinely wonder why the rest of the world can�t see how benevolent and self-sacrificing America has been. Even many people who take part in the anti-war movement have a hard time shaking off some of this mindset; they march to spur America � the America they love and worship and trust � they march to spur this noble America back onto its path of goodness.

Many of the citizens fall for US government propaganda justifying its military actions as often and as naively as Charlie Brown falling for Lucy�s football.

The American people are very much like the children of a Mafia boss who do not know what their father does for a living, and don�t want to know, but then they wonder why someone just threw a firebomb through the living room window.

This basic belief in America�s good intentions is often linked to �American exceptionalism�. Let�s look at just how exceptional America has been. Since the end of World War 2, the United States has:

Attempted to overthrow more than 50 foreign governments, most of which were democratically-elected.
Dropped bombs on the people of more than 30 countries.
Attempted to assassinate more than 50 foreign leaders.
Attempted to suppress a populist or nationalist movement in 20 countries.
Grossly interfered in democratic elections in at least 30 countries.
Led the world in torture; not only the torture performed directly by Americans upon foreigners, but providing torture equipment, torture manuals, lists of people to be tortured, and in-person guidance by American teachers, especially in Latin America.

This is indeed exceptional. No other country in all of history comes anywhere close to such a record. But it certainly makes it very difficult to believe that America means well.

So the next time you�re up against a stone wall � ask the person what the United States would have to do in its foreign policy to lose his or her support. What for this person would finally be TOO MUCH. Chances are the US has already done it.

Keep in mind that our precious homeland, above all, seeks to dominate the world. For economic reasons, nationalistic reasons, ideological, Christian, and for other reasons, world hegemony has long been America�s bottom line. And let�s not forget the powerful Executive Branch officials whose salaries, promotions, agency budgets and future well-paying private sector jobs depend upon perpetual war. These leaders are not especially concerned about the consequences for the world of their wars. They�re not necessarily bad people; but they�re amoral, like a sociopath is.

Take the Middle East and South Asia. The people in those areas have suffered horribly because of Islamic fundamentalism. What they desperately need are secular governments, which have respect for different religions. And such governments were actually instituted in the recent past. But what has been the fate of those governments?

Well, in the late 1970s through much of the 1980s, Afghanistan had a secular government that was relatively progressive, with full rights for women, which is hard to believe, isn�t it? But even a Pentagon report of the time testified to the actuality of women�s rights in Afghanistan. And what happened to that government? The United States overthrew it, allowing the Taliban to come to power. So keep that in mind the next time you hear an American official say that we have to remain in Afghanistan for the sake of the women.

After Afghanistan came Iraq, another secular society, under Saddam Hussein. And the United States overthrew that government as well, and now the country has its share of crazed and bloody jihadists and fundamentalists; and women who are not covered up properly are sometimes running a serious risk.

Next came Libya; again, a secular country, under Moammar Gaddafi, who, like Saddam Hussein, had a tyrant side to him but could in important ways be benevolent and do some marvelous things. Gaddafi, for example, founded the African Union and gave the Libyan people the highest standard of living in Africa. So, of course, the United States overthrew that government as well. In 2011, with the help of NATO, we bombed the people of Libya almost every day for more than six months.

Can anyone say that in all these interventions, or in any of them, the United States of America meant well?

When we attack Iran, will we mean well? Will we have the welfare of the Iranian people at heart? I suggest you keep such thoughts in mind the next time you�re having a discussion or argument with a flag-waving American.

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:52

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3: Nov 15, 2003

That is NOT about Venezala :mad:

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:53

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

536 posted:

You have one thats very vocal that has posted a dozen times that he doesn't believe the food crisis is real.

There are a few others that are hard skeptics that post poo poo like google reviews of restaurants that somehow proves the poor aren't starving.

i never once posted that the food crisis is faked 536. does it seriously break your brain that I'm not sure about the food crisis? both you and fnox want me to give a hard yes/no when I don't think there's enough evidence to make such assertions, and you just assume i secretly think "no, no food crisis" cause how could someone not immediately agree or disagree?

Condiv has issued a correction as of 21:59 on Aug 13, 2019

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:56

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

536 is a particularly stupid liberal who lacks basic reading comprehension and throws up imaginary strawmen of what he imagines and wants other people to have said to fit his head narrative to justify his claims that such people should be banned from the internet from discussion

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:57

A Big Fuckin Hornet: Nov 1, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

as a stalinist, i agree. maduro sucks!!

# ? Aug 13, 2019 21:59

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

Epic High Five posted:

the goal is to kill the poorest of Venezuelan citizens until they agree to let the US come in and steal everything that isn't nailed down and leave them with a puppet to keep the spoils flowing northward while rewarding the colonial collaborators who were spared from the initial killings as well

there's literally nothing else there, there is no humanitarian or just motive to anything, you cannot pitch a situation where anything gets even a little bit better in any tiny way wherein the US is also still involved in any way, shape, or form, because it's fundamentally incoherent, unless you consider "the rich get richer and the poor are turned into slaves" as getting better

Its funny when people bring up state violence under maduro as if there isn't a arms race going on here with regards to who can inflict enough coercion, or other means, on the populace to see who gets to rule Venezuela. Juan was too low energy to change the calculus, alas.

# ? Aug 13, 2019 22:01

A Big Fuckin Hornet: Nov 1, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

you dont let the kulaks live smdh

# ? Aug 13, 2019 22:01

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

read the OP!

# ? Aug 13, 2019 22:02

Frijolero: Jan 24, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo

StashAugustine posted:

Like the debt crises of the 80s (which caused the 89 riots) that's probably more of a happy side effect

Yeah, I'm not saying the US is pulling a lever, but it's extremely hosed that countries are suffering both because the US is genocidal (sanctions/invasions) and also because the US is laughably corrupt and stupid (financial deregulation and ravenous fracking).

# ? Aug 13, 2019 22:15

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

It's always amazing to me that food production isn't centralized through some U.N.-esqe body. Just lol that people have to pay to eat. :d2a:

# ? Aug 13, 2019 22:20

536: Mar 18, 2019; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Condiv posted:

i never once posted that the food crisis is faked 536. does it seriously break your brain that I'm not sure about the food crisis? both you and fnox want me to give a hard yes/no when I don't think there's enough evidence to make such assertions, and you just assume i secretly think "no, no food crisis" cause how could someone not immediately agree or disagree?

You can't do the whole "im still on the fence about people being hungry" when you won't even look at the studies that have been done.

Explain to me again how its muddy if people were hungry in 2018.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2019/04/04/venezuelas-humanitarian-emergency/large-scale-un-response-needed-address-health

Or are you telling me the doctors reporting high levels of malnourished children being admitted are western agents?

# ? Aug 13, 2019 22:24

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

being able to starve other countries into submission by having the US hegemonically control food staples and trying to force other countries into focusing on export crops is part of US foreign policy

# ? Aug 13, 2019 22:25

Captain Billy Pissboy: Oct 25, 2005; by Nyc_Tattoo; College Slice

Homeless Friend posted:

It's always amazing to me that food production isn't centralized through some U.N.-esqe body. Just lol that people have to pay to eat.

But why would anyone work if not under the constant threat of painful death?

# ? Aug 13, 2019 22:25

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

America also has a large amount of malnourished children.

the foods there so technically it�s okay

# ? Aug 13, 2019 22:26

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 15:11

536: Mar 18, 2019; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

CharlestheHammer posted:

America also has a large amount of malnourished children.

the foods there so technically it�s okay

thats also extremely hosed up. Who is saying the USA is running poo poo well?

# ? Aug 13, 2019 22:28

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