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FMguru posted:Yeah, pricing is essentially a black art. About the only hard-and-fast rule is "don't set the price lower than the cost...long term" and even then there are exceptions. Here's a good article on how hard it is to set prices for software. Further complicating this is that even in robust industries where you can closely track competitor pricing and afford to do customer research, there's still a lot of shuffling around the inherited wisdom of certain price points right until someone tries something different and either sets a new norm or crashes and burns. In something like RPGs, where tracking data and the ability to actually research the market is basically tea leaves for anyone but WOTC or Paizo, its not surprising that prices simultaneously aren't well optimized for cheaper market segments and underpriced for higher end segments. It really is the worst of both worlds. quote:Nerds + Economics = Comedy, every time. I remember a couple months ago this topic came up on RPG.net and there was some nerd who was utter adamant that it was impossible that RPG publishers were not already at the perfect industry pricing because they had access to ICv2 data and that was more than enough. He was certainly making a point about about pricing knowledge in the industry, just not the one he thought he was.
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Aug 13, 2019 16:47
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Early on I tried charging what my work was worth, and got a flurry of hate mail with antisemitic hate in it. (Note: I'm not Jewish). Since then, I've been pretty spectacularly undercharging for my work.
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Aug 13, 2019 17:05
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Desiden posted:Further complicating this is that even in robust industries where you can closely track competitor pricing and afford to do customer research, there's still a lot of shuffling around the inherited wisdom of certain price points right until someone tries something different and either sets a new norm or crashes and burns. In something like RPGs, where tracking data and the ability to actually research the market is basically tea leaves for anyone but WOTC or Paizo, its not surprising that prices simultaneously aren't well optimized for cheaper market segments and underpriced for higher end segments. It really is the worst of both worlds. ICv2 """""""data"""""" lmao
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Aug 13, 2019 17:45
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open_sketchbook posted:Early on I tried charging what my work was worth, and got a flurry of hate mail with antisemitic hate in it. Why do you do it, as opposed to some other job?
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Aug 13, 2019 18:02
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Lord_Hambrose posted:But how many have decades of success behind them? Not to say Traveller and so on don't have their fans but people want nice looking things. Stop, a-scroll up and reread: I never denied this or suggested that art wasn't important. I was specifically, directly, and solely responding to the claim that RPGs have been super big on artwork from the beginning. They weren't; it took the better part of a decade for production values to really properly start rising across the board.
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Aug 13, 2019 20:06
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Flail Snail posted:I had to look it up because that sounded so dumb but not out of the realm of possibility given some of the crap I've seen. I own a copy of 1st edition and if you look at the pages in it it's pretty evident that they've literally done four slides per page - on some pages you can see the breaks between the quarters better and none of the tables or illustrations stretch across a quarter boundary. C&S 1E was absurdly long by 1970s RPG standards (and pretty long by modern ones) so when they delivered this monster book to FGU drastic measures were needed to make it viable to publish.
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Aug 13, 2019 20:08
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Warthur posted:Stop, a-scroll up and reread: I never denied this or suggested that art wasn't important. I was specifically, directly, and solely responding to the claim that RPGs have been super big on artwork from the beginning. They weren't; it took the better part of a decade for production values to really properly start rising across the board. My apologies.
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Aug 13, 2019 20:27
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Warthur posted:I own a copy of 1st edition and if you look at the pages in it it's pretty evident that they've literally done four slides per page - on some pages you can see the breaks between the quarters better and none of the tables or illustrations stretch across a quarter boundary. It was primarily a way to cut down on printing costs and the sales price. Instead of multiple books that would have needed to be printed, bound, and sold together as a whole for cost of 2-3 books to the consumer, they could sell the entire thing as a single bound volume.
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Aug 13, 2019 20:28
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So in the late 90s and early 2000’s SJG was using softcover glue bound books for everything and was infamous for sheets falling out of the book on like the first page turn. Did it ever come out what exactly was the root cause? Bad batch of glue? Too cheap? Isolated experience? EDIT: Also in the last KS update for Hardwired the author mentioned not to send unsolicited game material to developers especially not Catalyst Game Lab. Is there someplace I can read more about that one? Just seems so very specific. Nystral fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Aug 13, 2019 |
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Aug 13, 2019 20:45
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Nystral posted:
GURPS is supposed to be modular and they just took it a bit too far.
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Aug 13, 2019 20:56
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Nystral posted:Also in the last KS update for Hardwired the author mentioned not to send unsolicited game material to developers especially not Catalyst Game Lab. Is there someplace I can read more about that one? Just seems so very specific. Generally this is Rude for the same reason sending unsolicited scripts or manuscripts to publishers is likewise Rude. Because it's very hard to defend against subsequent allegations of plagiarism, since it's virtually impossible to provide you didn't read something if you nevertheless had access to it. To this end, most publishers will send back any package that looks like it might contain an unsolicited manuscript unopened (or have a secretary delete emails unread, etc) so there is at least some procedural evidence that they didn't read it, and therefore can't be accused of nicking your stuff. Whether or not Catalyst Game Lab has a specific reason to be a very bad place to send unsolicited materials to, I don't know. I would imagine this is an incredibly loaded topic since you cannot copyright a game mechanic.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:01
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Loxbourne posted:Generally this is Rude for the same reason sending unsolicited scripts or manuscripts to publishers is likewise Rude. Because it's very hard to defend against subsequent allegations of plagiarism, since it's virtually impossible to provide you didn't read something if you nevertheless had access to it. Yeah. The one question Mark Rosewater refuses to answer, and indeed has told people not to ask him, is "what do you think about this idea for a magic card."
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Aug 13, 2019 23:15
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Nystral posted:Also in the last KS update for Hardwired the author mentioned not to send unsolicited game material to developers especially not Catalyst Game Lab. Is there someplace I can read more about that one? Just seems so very specific. the kickstarter update in question posted:Also be wary of companies that ask for spec work, especially if their name rhymes with Catalyst Game Labs. No, they said spec work. That's when a company wants you to Actually Do A Thing for them and then they'll think about hiring you. Working for free. This should be bad for, you know, obvious reasons. EDIT: and Catalyst is notorious for not paying freelancers they already supposedly hired, so, you know, they're an extra-bad company to do this for
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Aug 13, 2019 23:18
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The only thing Catalyst Games loves more than stealing art and making Shadowrun a worse game with every new edition is not paying people for work they do
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Aug 13, 2019 23:27
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I would fully expect CGL to steal anything sent to them.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:27
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Nystral posted:So in the late 90s and early 2000’s SJG was using softcover glue bound books for everything and was infamous for sheets falling out of the book on like the first page turn. Come see me in the Shadowrun thread. Summary: CGL is recruiting writers for their live campaign. They want a spec-written scene, to the style guide, for a writing sample before they decide if you can pitch an idea, and plan to pay flat rate that even they admit averages out to 'about 1 cent a word'.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:29
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Does anyone happen to know the best file format for publishing rpg books with screen readers in mind? My research has led me to html which.. that can’t be right? There has to be something better than html.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:35
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Meinberg posted:Does anyone happen to know the best file format for publishing rpg books with screen readers in mind? My research has led me to html which.. that can’t be right? There has to be something better than html. Presumably you'd want ePub?
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Aug 13, 2019 23:43
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Rand Brittain posted:Presumably you'd want ePub? Okay, that makes sense. Should be able to export that directly out of scrivener.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:50
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Liquid Communism posted:They want a spec-written scene, to the style guide, for a writing sample before they decide if you can pitch an idea, and plan to pay flat rate that even they admit averages out to 'about 1 cent a word'. That's a pittance even for game writers.
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Aug 14, 2019 00:18
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Nystral posted:So in the late 90s and early 2000’s SJG was using softcover glue bound books for everything and was infamous for sheets falling out of the book on like the first page turn.
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Aug 14, 2019 00:21
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As far as I know SJG has never done book printing in house before they starting doing PoD.
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Aug 14, 2019 00:58
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Dawgstar posted:That's a pittance even for game writers. It was a pittance when someone offered it to me nearly two decades ago, it definitely hasn't aged well in the meantime.
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Aug 14, 2019 03:13
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Liquid Communism posted:Come see me in the Shadowrun thread.
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Aug 14, 2019 03:28
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Are they still offering 0.5 cents per word for projects on Paizo's 3PP forum?
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Aug 14, 2019 04:52
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After the embezzlement scandal with Loren Coleman as well as refusing to pay freelancers, is there any guarantee that this penny a word would even be granted? I do not know how much CGL has changed in management since that scandal, but hearing about freelancing gives me a bad taste in my mouth.
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Aug 14, 2019 05:26
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Libertad! posted:After the embezzlement scandal with Loren Coleman as well as refusing to pay freelancers, is there any guarantee that this penny a word would even be granted? I do not know how much CGL has changed in management since that scandal, but hearing about freelancing gives me a bad taste in my mouth. Not to say this isn't happening, but this article calls out Trollman as a "best source."
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Aug 14, 2019 06:09
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Zurui posted:Not to say this isn't happening, but this article calls out Trollman as a "best source." Hahaha oh my god the actual line is, " they banned Frank Trollman, who has the best info," and having personally interacted with the man I can say at the most he is accidentally correct about any given thing I mean for the love of god he put out a WoD heartbreaker in 2008
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Aug 14, 2019 07:58
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Although he's far from the best source, Frank Trollman is not the begin and end. For clarification he actually worked as a freelancer on some Shadowrun books and was also screwed out of money. As the tabletop industry's horrible, complaining about mistreatment meant that other companies would blacklist you even when it's clear you're the wronged party. As Frank pretty much burned all of his bridges in the industry he was thus a "safe" option for wronged-upon freelancers to leak information to, which he did...not exactly effectively however. He claimed that the embezzler did it because he's Mormon which ironically got him banned from RPGnet thread at the time for attacking someone's religion. But the not-paying of freelancers was a thing that did happen, and said freelancers have later spoken in support of Frank's version of events. A lot of tabletop writers, from CthulhuTech's to Eclipse Phase creators, actually left Catalyst in protest and bought the rights to their own games around the time. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Aug 14, 2019 |
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Aug 14, 2019 09:26
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CT and EP specifically, as I recall, didn't buy the rights back but rather received them back due to non-payment of royalties.Libertad! posted:After the embezzlement scandal with Loren Coleman as well as refusing to pay freelancers, is there any guarantee that this penny a word would even be granted? I do not know how much CGL has changed in management since that scandal, but hearing about freelancing gives me a bad taste in my mouth. It hasn't changed in management at all. Coleman and Bills are both still in charge. Coleman was at GenCon, in fact, laughing with the rest of the staff on a panel about how they hosed up their Kickstarter for their Sprawl Ops minis game and none of the Euro customers have gotten their stuff because they double-shipped a bunch of other customers. Not an iota of guilt about loving over a bunch of people who have pre-paid, and they were selling copies at the con. https://www.facebook.com/CatalystGameLabs/videos/483648219059444/
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Aug 14, 2019 09:50
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Libertad! posted:Although he's far from the best source, Frank Trollman is not the begin and end. For clarification he actually worked as a freelancer on some Shadowrun books and was also screwed out of money. As the tabletop industry's horrible, complaining about mistreatment meant that other companies would blacklist you even when it's clear you're the wronged party. As Frank pretty much burned all of his bridges in the industry he was thus a "safe" option for wronged-upon freelancers to leak information to, which he did...not exactly effectively however. He claimed that the embezzler did it because he's Mormon which ironically got him banned from RPGnet thread at the time for attacking someone's religion.
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Aug 14, 2019 10:25
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Liquid Communism posted:CT and EP specifically, as I recall, didn't buy the rights back but rather received them back due to non-payment of royalties. This doesn’t bode well for the Battletech Kickstarter then does it? CGL has been running that too IIRC.
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Aug 14, 2019 12:44
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The BattleTech one is mostly minis, which they've been pretty good at as far as I've seen.
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Aug 14, 2019 12:46
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Warthur posted:My own limited experience of Frank is that he'll get the actual facts straight but then come up with utterly goofybollocks conclusions from them - like, he won't misrepresent what's in the D&D rulebooks, but he will interpret them through a completely bizarre lens which no actual human being ever would assume was the intended reading in order to come up with the assertions he does. So "on the money in terms of the basic facts but weirdly concludes that this all happened because the embezzler's a Mormon" is 100% par for the course for him. That's about right. Also it was mentioned Trollman burns bridges like it's going out of style, but many of them he never even needed to set aflame in the first place.
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Aug 14, 2019 14:05
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Nuns with Guns posted:The only thing Catalyst Games loves more than stealing art and making Shadowrun a worse game with every new edition is not paying people for work they do Even Mongoose learned not to do that, though in their case it's because the market for d20 shovelware dried up rather than any kind of ethics.
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Aug 14, 2019 14:42
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This was posted by someone in the Trad Games Discord, but figured to share it here. It's by Anna Kreider of the feminist Go Make Me a Sandwich blog, talking about how removing predators from gaming communities helps everyone by citing her own experience and personal trials and tribulations.
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Aug 16, 2019 03:28
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Clearly, at some point in the distant past, I gave enworld my email address. I just got an email saying they're new and they're better. I remember the forum as being a nest. Does anybody know anything about this? Does anybody care?
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Aug 16, 2019 17:29
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Libertad! posted:This was posted by someone in the Trad Games Discord, but figured to share it here. It's by Anna Kreider of the feminist Go Make Me a Sandwich blog, talking about how removing predators from gaming communities helps everyone by citing her own experience and personal trials and tribulations.
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Aug 16, 2019 17:35
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I wrote a blog post about why intelligence scores are bad. turns out the reason is racism
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Aug 16, 2019 17:47
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That seems like a bit of a stretch. Actual real life IQ scores are a bunch of stupid bullshit, but INT is an arbitrary measure of a fictional character's smarts in the same way that STR measures that character's brawn. Attributes are shorthand, helping eveyone involved in telling that character's story knows the parameters of the character. INT Is a true measure of a fictional character, while IQ is an artificial measure of a real person. A low INT blocks an imaginary person from certain feats. Scoring a low IQ test puts a real human on a bad track for life. It's kind of tacky and offensive to pretend they're the same.
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