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Yeah I should have specified that most of my house doesn't have grounds because of it's age so I am flush with GFCI outlets and they are the norm for me. However, swapping out the double pole breaker for a single pole and actually having a grounded outlet available seems like an obviously better move. I could also put in a second single-pole breaker and use it somewhere else in the house (I'm looking at you, entire kitchen on a 15a fuse)
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Aug 11, 2019 16:55
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I took a cross-country flight yesterday and the lights for my seat and my neighbor's seat were cross-wired. That is, the button for my light controlled his light and vice versa. The lights would also turn off randomly, and when you pressed the button to turn them back on, you'd have maybe a 50% chance of it actually working. Once I pressed the button, the light didn't turn on, and I gave up. A good 30 seconds later, the light "spontaneously" turned on. I tried not to think about what was going on that could explain these behaviors. 
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Aug 11, 2019 17:52
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I took a cross-country flight yesterday and the lights for my seat and my neighbor's seat were cross-wired. That is, the button for my light controlled his light and vice versa. The lights would also turn off randomly, and when you pressed the button to turn them back on, you'd have maybe a 50% chance of it actually working. Once I pressed the button, the light didn't turn on, and I gave up. A good 30 seconds later, the light "spontaneously" turned on. What kind of plane? It's all on some flavor of addressed bus and runs back to a central lighting controller. If the buttons module gets swapped out, it's possible the controller didn't get the new addressing correct. What I've seen happen is the new light module is addressed so both buttons control both lights, and it's just random race condition stuff as to whether either or both works.
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Aug 11, 2019 18:09
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Blackbeer posted:a 30a breaker will close on a hard short just fine. Open!  (I know you know and meant that, but for the purpose of novices playing along at home: breakers open to interrupt current flow.) For the person who swapped a 5-15r onto a 20a circuit, isn't there a requirement that the first outlet on a branch be 5-20r and only downstream chained ones can be 5-15r or am I sleep deprived?
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Aug 11, 2019 18:59
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:What kind of plane? It's all on some flavor of addressed bus and runs back to a central lighting controller. If the buttons module gets swapped out, it's possible the controller didn't get the new addressing correct. What I've seen happen is the new light module is addressed so both buttons control both lights, and it's just random race condition stuff as to whether either or both works. It was a Boeing 767-300, specifically operated by American Airlines. The "my button controls your lights and vice versa" bit wasn't particularly worrying; it's easy to imagine how that could happen. The "button might or might not work, light randomly turns off, sometimes button works on an extreme delay" bit is more concerning. Though it does remind me of a story about a keycard-operated door that gave similar problems -- you'd swipe your badge, and nothing would happen, so you'd swipe again and again and eventually the door would unlock. One night one of the devs stayed late and could hear the door spontaneously unlocking. They dug through the system and discovered that every single badge swipe was logged to a file that wasn't ever stored and wiped. So every single badge swipe caused the software to open up this multi-gigabyte file, scan to the end, append a line, then unlock the door. Wipe the file and suddenly the doors work! I guess one possible explanation here is that the light addressing was completely FUBAR. My light was getting turned off because someone else was fiddling with their light controls, and when I pushed my button and nothing happened, I was probably screwing up someone else's lights. The "push button, nothing happens, 30 seconds later light comes on" behavior could've just been someone else managing to turn my light on.
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Aug 11, 2019 19:14
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H110Hawk posted:Open! oh gently caress, yes thank you and no re: first outlet, all 15s is fine Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Aug 11, 2019 |
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Aug 11, 2019 19:17
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H110Hawk posted:Open! Open and closed for circuits and switches has never sunk in for me. I have to think hard every time.
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Aug 11, 2019 19:22
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Jaded Burnout posted:Open and closed for circuits and switches has never sunk in for me. I have to think hard every time. Another victim of the water-analogy.
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Aug 11, 2019 19:41
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RabbitWizard posted:Another victim of the water-analogy. Quite possibly! Using a water analogy for electricity is about 90% of my ability to understand circuits.
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Aug 11, 2019 21:27
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Jaded Burnout posted:Quite possibly! Using a water analogy for electricity is about 90% of my ability to understand circuits. I got into this with a guy who only had the water analogy to describe electricity, and AC stuff is basically impossible. DC is ok-ish, but when doing semiconductors it gets pretty tortured as a metaphor.
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Aug 12, 2019 00:12
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RabbitWizard posted:Another victim of the water-analogy. I never heard of this and just looked it up and yikes is that a fun way to make things more confusing.
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Aug 12, 2019 01:41
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:I got into this with a guy who only had the water analogy to describe electricity, and AC stuff is basically impossible. DC is ok-ish, but when doing semiconductors it gets pretty tortured as a metaphor. I've got a good intuitive understanding of water flow, pressures, and gradients, so it works well for me and only takes a little bit of suspension of disbelief to extend it to things like AC, but there's definitely a limit to its usefulness.
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Aug 12, 2019 10:37
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Jaded Burnout posted:I've got a good intuitive understanding of water flow, pressures, and gradients, so it works well for me and only takes a little bit of suspension of disbelief to extend it to things like AC, but there's definitely a limit to its usefulness. Nothing wrong with using an analog model to extend your intuition! Just be aware of the limits. Scientists simulate a black hole in a water tank We can only give the water model so much poo poo -- after all, circuit schematics/terminology were all based on the assumption that "holes" are flowing from positive to negative :facepalm:
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Aug 12, 2019 13:37
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SpartanIvy posted:However, swapping out the double pole breaker for a single pole and actually having a grounded outlet available seems like an obviously better move. Code doesn't allow you to use anything except a bare wire or a green (or green+yellow) conductor for ground. Not saying you can't do it (if you do this, make sure you relabel that wire with green tape at both ends), but it may be an issue down the road if/when you sell if an inspector opens it up.
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Aug 14, 2019 12:29
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STR posted:Code doesn't allow you to use anything except a bare wire or a green (or green+yellow) conductor for ground. Not saying you can't do it (if you do this, make sure you relabel that wire with green tape at both ends), but it may be an issue down the road if/when you sell if an inspector opens it up. Guess what kind of wire the 6-30 plug is using for neutral! (Bare copper in a Romex 12-2)
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Aug 14, 2019 14:43
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Just wanted to take an opinion "pole": Single-gang outlets - vertical or horizontal?
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Aug 14, 2019 18:11
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Vertical unless the space doesn't reasonably allow for it.
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Aug 14, 2019 18:21
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Definitely vertical. Or just all double gangs.
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Aug 14, 2019 19:47
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The real question is ground on top or bottom
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Aug 14, 2019 20:33
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Quite a few pages ago I asked a bunch of questions about wiring AliExpress LED strips up in my house. All the components FINALLY arrived, although one is broken, and it got me thinking about whether it's necessary. I've got a few of these LED strips (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32261760142.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.48864c4dsijrSw) I've got this power supply (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32911389359.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.48864c4dYxudub) The power supply has a toggle for 110v or 220v. I set it to 110v because I'm in the US. I plug the power supply directly into a normal wall outlet. I then hook the LED strip directly to the power supply. That's the way it's set up now. Initially I had also ordered an adapter that sat between the power supply and my outlet that was supposed to convert my 110v outlet to 220v, and then have the PSU set on 220v. That adapter arrived broken though. The question I have is whether my current setup -- LED to 110V PSU to outlet -- will work, or if I have to switch it -- to LED to 220v PSU to 110/220 adapter to outlet. (And if it's the latter, where to find one, since I still haven't found something that I'm confident does exactly that).
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Aug 14, 2019 20:34
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If the power supply runs on 110VAC, why would you want to involve 220V?
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Aug 14, 2019 20:39
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SpartanIvy posted:The real question is ground on top or bottom Bottom or guillotine.
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Aug 14, 2019 20:40
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SpartanIvy posted:The real question is ground on top or wrong
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Aug 14, 2019 20:43
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Ground obviously goes on bottom, that way if the plug shorts the electrons don't have to fight gravity.
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Aug 14, 2019 21:01
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IOwnCalculus posted:If the power supply runs on 110VAC, why would you want to involve 220V? Want to? I don't. But I think the led strips are 220v (though that isn't explicitly clear on the product page)
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Aug 14, 2019 21:25
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The Wonder Weapon posted:Want to? I don't. But I think the led strips are 220v (though that isn't explicitly clear on the product page) The 'Specifications' tab on the LED product page posted:Voltage: 12V The power supply product page posted:Output DC 12V So your power supply can convert either 110 or 220VAC to 12VDC. What you put in is up to you, so feel free to feed it 110VAC. Certainly no need to convert 110VAC to 220VAC just to convert it down to 12VDC. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Aug 14, 2019 |
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Aug 14, 2019 21:30
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Jaded Burnout posted:So your power supply can convert either 110 or 220VAC to 12VDC. What you put in is up to you, so feel free to feed it 110VAC. Oooh, that makes sense. So it will work as I've for it set up. Thanks!
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Aug 14, 2019 21:54
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The Wonder Weapon posted:Oooh, that makes sense. So it will work as I've for it set up. Thanks! Yah so it's like this: Wall -> (110 or 220V AC) -> Power supply -> (12V DC) -> LEDs In fact the power supply probably accepts quite a wide range. Have a look at the text printed on any power supply you have for a laptop or whatever and you'll see they accept wide ranges of input voltage to allow them to work in different countries. This is also why a lot of power bricks have figure 8 or kettle lead sockets on them, so a manufacturer can make one brick for the whole world and just ship country-specific figure 8 / kettle leads for a given region. Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Aug 14, 2019 |
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Aug 14, 2019 22:02
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opengl128 posted:Bottom or guillotine. 
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Aug 14, 2019 23:38
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Aug 14, 2019 23:49
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The NEC is still silent on receptacle orientation isn't it?
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Aug 15, 2019 00:37
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angryrobots posted:The NEC is still silent on receptacle orientation isn't it? It's less important than what oil you put in your lawnmower. The NEC is silent on things that trivial.
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Aug 15, 2019 01:10
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angryrobots posted:The NEC is still silent on receptacle orientation isn't it? Receptacle orientation is just a social construct anyways
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Aug 15, 2019 01:55
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Aug 15, 2019 02:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmn9asN-8AE
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Aug 15, 2019 02:35
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SpartanIvy posted:The real question is ground on top or bottom Ground on top has an objective safety advantage in that if a conductive material happens to fall across a partially pulled out plug it'll most likely contact the ground first. Obviously this is a fairly implausible scenario for some outlets, but for others (especially those behind furniture) it's not too much of a stretch to imagine how it could happen. Ground on bottom has an objective convenience advantage in that it's considered to be "normal" by a lot of device manufacturers, so a lot of wall warts and right angle plugs are designed to work best in this configuration. It also has a nearly universally agreed upon subjective advantage from a visual standpoint, probably because the fact that they look like faces tickles some deep part of our brains. wolrah fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Aug 15, 2019 |
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Aug 15, 2019 15:23
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wolrah posted:Ground on top has an objective safety advantage in that if a conductive material happens to fall across a partially pulled out plug it'll most likely contact the ground first. Obviously this is a fairly implausible scenario for some outlets, but for others (especially those behind furniture) it's not too much of a stretch to imagine how it could happen. The terrible "electricians" who did my house randomly oriented my outlets. Some where ground up, some where ground down. Took care of that when I went around the house to replace all the outlets. (had multiple failed grounds due to them using ferrules to crimp the grounds together, but not using the right tool. And also 2 incidents of backstab failures causing a breaker pop.)
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Aug 15, 2019 15:38
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While I'm sure it varies by region, ground up used to mean "this is a switched outlet" around here.
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Aug 15, 2019 16:37
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Ground down so water can flow out without shorting the outlet.
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Aug 15, 2019 16:47
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wolrah posted:Ground on top has an objective safety advantage in that if a conductive material happens to fall across a partially pulled out plug it'll most likely contact the ground first. Obviously this is a fairly implausible scenario for some outlets, but for others (especially those behind furniture) it's not too much of a stretch to imagine how it could happen. UK sockets are all ground-up for I think this reason. The whole horizontal or vertical question never arises for single-gang sockets because they're square.
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Aug 15, 2019 17:33
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