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Zoran posted:Honestly it seems like Claude just ends up on the Church's side out of inertia, and he really could be convinced to join Edelgard if they had one good conversation. Dimitri and Edelgard could have been easy allies too if she knew how to communicate
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:29 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 08:11 |
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there's so many moments in this game where it seems like it could've gone one way or the other, that I can't help but feel the story DLC is gonna be a "unite the houses" plot or something.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:33 |
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i hope the dlc route is just a giant sign that says 'edelgard did nothing wrong'
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:45 |
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edelgard did some things wrong
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:47 |
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I've heard mixed things about getting epilogues between characters, some say it's your first A support, others says it goes based on support points listed in Close Allies. Does anyone know for sure?
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:48 |
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cheetah7071 posted:Dimitri and Edelgard could have been easy allies too if she knew how to communicate Edelgard's problem seems to be that she's up her own rear end and terminally stupid. Currently doing BE route and that's done nothing to change it.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:48 |
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Smirking_Serpent posted:I've heard mixed things about getting epilogues between characters, some say it's your first A support, others says it goes based on support points listed in Close Allies. Does anyone know for sure? The A support that's highest under close allies.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:49 |
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cheetah7071 posted:edelgard did some things wrong yeah but if dimitri was real hed have a blue lives matter bumpersticker and claude is a centrist on every issue but border security
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:51 |
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Endorph posted:yeah but if dimitri was real hed have a blue lives matter bumpersticker and claude is a centrist on every issue but border security that is a very bad read on dimitri imo and also if edelgard was real she'd invade iran
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:54 |
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travant didnt do anything wrong either except the child murdering but like half the party in fe5 is like 'just found out about the child hunts... drat that poo poo sucks' so whatever cheetah7071 posted:that is a very bad read on dimitri imo and also if edelgard was real she'd invade iran
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:54 |
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Endorph posted:yeah but if dimitri was real hed have a blue lives matter bumpersticker and claude is a centrist on every issue but border security Part 2 of this game is getting into political arguments on facebook with the dumb people you went to highschool with. And then killing them
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:55 |
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I like that we can have this conversation. Unlike 'evil dad removes all moral ambiguity from this game' in Fates.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:55 |
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Zoran posted:Honestly it seems like Claude just ends up on the Church's side out of inertia, and he really could be convinced to join Edelgard if they had one good conversation. Claude doesn't care about the church's past, but he does care about its future because he plans to install Byleth as the pope and have 'em throw out all of Rhea's isolationist teachings. Knowing what Edelgard knows, he'd agree that they suck and call it another example of something that needs to change. But because his goal is to culturally and spiritually unite Fodlan with the outside world, Adrestian revanchism is incompatible with his ambition. He needs to win the war with the institution of the church intact so that he can make use of it.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:56 |
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ChrisBTY posted:I like that we can have this conversation.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:57 |
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Eimi posted:The A support that's highest under close allies. okay cool, so I don't have to worry about getting an A with someone early, as long as I grind the preferred spouse later?
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:57 |
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basically characters in three houses have actual moral and political goals and beliefs that they act on while characters in fates just really like standing around passively talking about what their morals are, theoretically, while making no attempt to actually materially change anything even though they have the power to. even conquest route corrin's master plan is 'do nothing until we get a chance to kill garon.' thats why conquest route takumi is the best character in fates, hes the only one who feels like hes actively doing something because he believes in it. so of course they make that because demon.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 21:58 |
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Edelgard is real and strong and she's my friend
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:02 |
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indigi posted:Edelgard is real and strong and she's my friend
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:03 |
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Endorph posted:poo poo even ignoring garon the morality in fates was stupid. like regardless of your take on edelgard at least she has an actual consistent moral stance that makes sense, as opposed to xander standing around talking about how justice is an illusion while iago and hans beat an old woman to death for no reason two feet to his left I'm gonna disagree with this, with the caveat that I've only finished Lions and Edelgard routes and Edelgard is a massively bad communicater and might have extra information that is only told to the player in the other two that makes her make more sense Her thrust seems to be "Fodlan's class system is hosed up. The crests are what everybody points to as reasons nobles are inherently superior, so dismantling the class system requires me to destroy crests first". I'm with her so far. But then, instead of doing any of that, she just starts fighting everybody??? Like I guess she wanted to dismantle the aristocracy of all of Fodlan and not just the empire but it still seems kinda rear end-backwards to me. And she never draws the connection between dismantling the church and her goal, she just says "hey guys Rhea's a dragon we gotta kill her". That's the part I most suspect is just missing information that she doesn't tell you, because I can imagine much deeper connections between the church and crests than what has actually been depicted on screen thus far. I feel like this is especially egregious in her paralogue. You beat up the Almyran army and she goes "we don't have to conquer Almyra because they don't worship the goddess. Defending against them is enough." Not "we don't have to conquer Almyra because their class system is fair" or "we don't have to conquer Almyra cause they don't have crests". She literally lays out that the reason her ambitions end at Fodlan is because Fodlan is where Sothis is worshipped. Her war has nothing to do with her stated goals of making a just world; if that were the case she'd clean up her own backyard in Adrestia first and not ally with the slitherers. She causes mass amounts of death in a big-rear end war because she posts on r/atheism e: this debate being possible proves your deeper point of "the characters are complex and have layered motivations that are fun to think about" though
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:06 |
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Smirking_Serpent posted:okay cool, so I don't have to worry about getting an A with someone early, as long as I grind the preferred spouse later? Do note that support points seem to cap out. My BE route had all sorts of unexpected paired endings (and solo endings) since everyone had multiple of A support and no amount of grinding at the end was able to move someone higher up the Closest Allies list because they just no longer generated support points with each other. Doing my 2nd run, and I'm only planning on each character having one A support to guarantee the paired ending.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:07 |
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cheetah7071 posted:edelgard did some things wrong Edelgard Did Some Things Wrong But Character Flaws Are Cool And Good Endorph posted:poo poo even ignoring garon the morality in fates was stupid. like regardless of your take on edelgard at least she has an actual consistent moral stance that makes sense, as opposed to xander standing around talking about how justice is an illusion while iago and hans beat an old woman to death for no reason two feet to his left every time JUSTICE IS AN ILLUSION was said (with voice acting!!!!!) i audibly went gently caress youuuu Endorph posted:basically characters in three houses have actual moral and political goals and beliefs that they act on while characters in fates just really like standing around passively talking about what their morals are, theoretically, while making no attempt to actually materially change anything even though they have the power to. even conquest route corrin's master plan is 'do nothing until we get a chance to kill garon.' thats why conquest route takumi is the best character in fates, hes the only one who feels like hes actively doing something because he believes in it. so of course they make that because demon. Yukimura is the second best character just for going "this is loving stupid, leave" in revelation
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:09 |
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cheetah7071 posted:edelgard did some things wrong Deified Data posted:Part 2 of this game is getting into political arguments on facebook with the dumb people you went to highschool with. And then killing them Zoran posted:Honestly it seems like Claude just ends up on the Church's side out of inertia, and he really could be convinced to join Edelgard if they had one good conversation. Like, this is the dude whose C-support is you talking to him about what kind of poison he prefers, even if he's mostly a chill dude
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:10 |
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a lot of that critique ignores that she's got a ticking clock, not to mention the fact that the empire's war machine was already rolling the second she gave the order means she did a lot of work cleaning up imperial nobility behind the scenes already. plus it's easier to enact the sort of grand sweeping reforms she wants once everyone's personal retinues are beat to gently caress and she has a large class of merit-based commanders and troops that are loyal directly to her it's not a perfect plan by any means but she's said she's willing to trade perfection for expediency
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:10 |
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one more question, since I decided to do the church route, I thought i might as well romance Rhea. I only got her to C rank before the skip, is that no longer an option? Will I miss out on her paralogue?
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:12 |
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indigi posted:a lot of that critique ignores that she's got a ticking clock, not to mention the fact that the empire's war machine was already rolling the second she gave the order means she did a lot of work cleaning up imperial nobility behind the scenes already. plus it's easier to enact the sort of grand sweeping reforms she wants once everyone's personal retinues are beat to gently caress and she has a large class of merit-based commanders and troops that are loyal directly to her Yeah, and it's unknown how much of it was under her control. She was raised under the thumb of the Slitherers and they have been planning this war for a while, I think a lot of it is her basically trying to seize control of their already in motion plan, rather than oppose it from a position of absolute weakness. I think people see the term Emperor and think Augustus when they are like the emperor of Japan pre Meiji, just basically there to look pretty while the ministers/shogun do the real work of governance.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:15 |
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Eimi posted:Yeah, and it's unknown how much of it was under her control. She was raised under the thumb of the Slitherers and they have been planning this war for a while, I think a lot of it is her basically trying to seize control of their already in motion plan, rather than oppose it from a position of absolute weakness. I think people see the term Emperor and think Augustus when they are like the emperor of Japan pre Meiji, just basically there to look pretty while the ministers/shogun do the real work of governance. her origin story goes to prove that last point as well
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:16 |
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cheetah7071 posted:I'm gonna disagree with this, with the caveat that I've only finished Lions and Edelgard routes and Edelgard is a massively bad communicater and might have extra information that is only told to the player in the other two that makes her make more sense and as proven by the other routes the slitherers were gonna spring this plan with or without her, she might as well get onboard, do the one good thing the slitherers wanna do as quickly and efficiently as possible, then get rid of them.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:17 |
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indigi posted:her origin story goes to prove that last point as well Yeah isn't Ferdinand's family the actual power?
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:19 |
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Endorph posted:the church of sothis is literally hitler tho, you're really underselling her with the r/atheism thing. they slaughter in droves anyone who remotely disagrees with them, the crest system is inherently supported by their religion. the number one thing making the world unjust is the church. its not that she hates religion its that the religion being practiced is completely and utterly rotten to the core to the point that there's no redeeming it. its only slight better than the loptyr cult in jugdral, because the child murder is implicit instead of explicit Idk I feel like this might be one of the spots where the plot being split across four routes is making some things not quite make sense because that absolutely was not communicated to the extent you're saying in the Edelgard route. The church is absolutely shady but "only slightly better than Loptyr" is absolutely not depicted on screen, in that route. Rhea causes way less death than Edelgard does, probably by orders of magnitude. As I said earlier, I'm still mostly unspoiled on the revelations from the two routes I haven't played so my opinions could change. The only opinion that won't change is that Edelgard is very bad at communicating her intentions clearly to the player.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:21 |
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Endorph posted:yeah but if dimitri was real hed have a blue lives matter bumpersticker and claude is a centrist on every issue but border security I know the gag about Dimitri being super pro church or authority is mostly a play on shallow Edelgard takes, but playing his route and the church just doesn't play any role at all.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:24 |
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cheetah7071 posted:Idk I feel like this might be one of the spots where the plot being split across four routes is making some things not quite make sense because that absolutely was not communicated to the extent you're saying in the Edelgard route. The church is absolutely shady but "only slightly better than Loptyr" is absolutely not depicted on screen, in that route. Rhea causes way less death than Edelgard does, probably by orders of magnitude. As I said earlier, I'm still mostly unspoiled on the revelations from the two routes I haven't played so my opinions could change. The only opinion that won't change is that Edelgard is very bad at communicating her intentions clearly to the player.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:24 |
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Dimtri's route is about his various mental illnesses. The politics of Fodlan are just there as a backdrop
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:25 |
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Rhea only causes less death that we see; she's been in charge for one k years and we know she has no compunctions about killing people, including children, who question the church. it's definitely implied to be at least as bad as medieval Catholics if not worse since she's basically the dragon of Revelation
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:26 |
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Endorph posted:i mean idk what routes its explained in but the slithers' deal made me think even they're kind of justified even if the ones you meet and the things you hear them doing are basically cartoon villainy so yeah we might have different angles here Yeah the way I've seen things explained Sothis/Rhea struck first against the Agarthans. Like not even they are entirely cartoonishly evil, even if they are 99% that, and obviously in the wrong.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:28 |
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I wonder why Sothis is so wholly ineffectual at the period the game takes place
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:32 |
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indigi posted:I wonder why Sothis is so wholly ineffectual at the period the game takes place Is this a troll post, Sothis is in no position to do anything due to being stuck inside Byleth.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:34 |
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indigi posted:I wonder why Sothis is so wholly ineffectual at the period the game takes place She's super dead and has been so for a very long time. Her consciousness hangs out in Byleth's body but she has nowhere near her full power. Even when you merge and gain her power you're probably only a shadow of what she once was.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:36 |
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Harrow posted:She's super dead and has been so for a very long time. Her consciousness hangs out in Byleth's body but she has nowhere near her full power. Even when you merge and gain her power you're probably only a shadow of what she once was. why though
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:39 |
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Blaziken386 posted:there's so many moments in this game where it seems like it could've gone one way or the other, that I can't help but feel the story DLC is gonna be a "unite the houses" plot or something. The devs have said the story DLC won't touch the main story in any way and won't take place after the events of the game. So it's most likely something from the past like Seiros/Nemesis or Jeralt's mercenaries or something that happens on another continent.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:40 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 08:11 |
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indigi posted:why though Play the game, its spelled out exactly what happened.
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# ? Aug 14, 2019 22:41 |