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It's been a while since I've seen it mentioned; Neil Greshman's Masterclass are hugely informative and will help make that V2 -> V3 transition if your gym is like "Our V2's are pretty juggy with a little confusing footwork" and the V3's are like "Yea you need to be a bit more methodical about this". But yes weight loss also helps, too. I've probably lost 10 pounds since I started ~4 months ago. But now I've plateaued and won't lose the remaining 10 pounds unless I start doing more :/
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Aug 15, 2019 22:19
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Grades are more or less linear as far as they can be for something as subjective as climbing difficulty(except UK trad technical difficulty grades where everything harder than 6a is 6b, regardless of how hard it is). If you look online at a grading chart you can see that all the different international systems match up fairly well- there's no mismatch that would suggest one follows a logarithmic rather than linear scale for example. Competition problems and different climbing areas feel more difficult for the same reason- unfamiliarity. Comp problems will often be set by a guest setter who'll have a different style to the regulars. They also tend to go for more esoteric stuff, which is mentally testing. Yeah you've got fingers like grappling hooks- but do you have the minerals to commit to a no handed traverse across the top of the slab?
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Aug 15, 2019 22:25
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Endjinneer posted:Grades are more or less linear as far as they can be for something as subjective as climbing difficulty(except UK trad technical difficulty grades where everything harder than 6a is 6b, regardless of how hard it is). If you look online at a grading chart you can see that all the different international systems match up fairly well- there's no mismatch that would suggest one follows a logarithmic rather than linear scale for example. The problem is not with the different international systems matching up or not. The problem is that different route-setters can have wildly varying ideas about what constitutes a certain grade. Furthermore, a lot of gyms start with easier stuff early in the year to accommodate New Years Resolution types, and then ramp up the difficulty gradually as the year goes on. This makes it basically impossible to judge the "real" grade of a route with any reasonable level of accuracy. IMO indoor climbing would greatly benefit from a more scientific approach to route-setting, whereby a difficulty grade of a route is calculated via a formula involving stuff like slope, total surface area of handholds and footholds, total distance of the route, and so on. After all, it's ultimately all about physics.
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Aug 15, 2019 22:43
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The key is to just stop caring. Hopefully setters at a single gym mostly align with some occasional outliers or entire outlier new sets. Then at least you can mostly use them as a guideline within a single gym. There will always be soft and hard problems for a grade. This is fine. This way you occasionally get that ego boost and also get slammed back down. Also, remember that you are hopefully getting better. If you don't normally send a 12a and then you do, that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't a 12a. You might just be better now or that one particularly suits your strengths.
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Aug 15, 2019 23:38
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enraged_camel posted:Furthermore, a lot of gyms start with easier stuff early in the year to accommodate New Years Resolution types, and then ramp up the difficulty gradually as the year goes on. As far as weight goes, I was overweight to begin with...and I think I'm like 25 above when I started. Way bigger up top than I used to be (probably from poor technique  ) so wouldn't expect to get all the way back down, but still want to get somewhat closer at least. Shed a few pounds pretty quick already recently, but going on a cruise with my family soon so uh, hope I don't blow it 
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Aug 15, 2019 23:42
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armorer posted:Bouldering grades are supposed to compare with roped grades as well, with v4 being around 5.12a. So, if you can top rope 12a, you should be able to boulder v4, at least in theory. Leading 12a will be harder, because it requires more endurance and mental fortitude. I can sort of see how this is true, but even though I can generally Boulder V4-5 I still fall off most 5.10b routes because my endurance is garbage. It feels bad to fall of a route that doesn’t have any challenging moves, but I think that’s just the name of the game as I work on my sport climbing. Probably doesn’t help that I’m always climbing at the Red, and so most things are endurance challenges as opposed to super techy stuff.
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Aug 15, 2019 23:45
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Being able to get a rough idea of how hard a problem is by looking at it's grade is really useful to me and a nice way to gauge progress as a beginner. You still need to try harder stuff and it won't tell you what grade you'll do outside or even in another gym. but it's still a really good tool in my opinion if the grades are pretty consistent. I feel like my gym is pretty good at keeping things consistent and while there's some problems that feel a bit off, it tends to feel pretty accurate. I'd say 90% of the problems feel like they were rated correctly (by that I mean consistent with the rest of the problems in the gym. Which is all that I think is really important). Route setters are working as a group here though and will all climb the thing and chime in so that might be why. I know a lot of gym seem to have individual routes set by individual setters which would probably make things less consistent VS having 4 to 6 people making a route together and deciding on the grade together. Jester Mcgee posted:I can sort of see how this is true, but even though I can generally Boulder V4-5 I still fall off most 5.10b routes because my endurance is garbage. It feels bad to fall of a route that doesn’t have any challenging moves, but I think that’s just the name of the game as I work on my sport climbing. Probably doesn’t help that I’m always climbing at the Red, and so most things are endurance challenges as opposed to super techy stuff. Yeah I think being able to do the equivalent of V4 on top rope means you'll do it in bouldering, but it doesn't work the other way around. I don't know much about route climbing, but from what I understand a 5.10 will have it's hardest move be a v3 type of move, but since it's somewhere in the middle of the route then you're tired when you get there. I've been route climbing about 5 times now and the hardest I've done was a 5.10+ and no individual move was anywhere near as hard as what I can boulder, but I thought I was going to die by the time I was up top. Doesn't help that my mental game is really weak as soon as I'm halfway up the wall since I'm still kind of scared of height. KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Aug 16, 2019 |
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Aug 16, 2019 00:02
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Gym grades are fairly meaningless, especially if you are trying to compare them to out side grades. As mentioned above, some gyms purposely tank grades to drive up membership, grades can vary wildly within a gym, etc. Ubiquitus fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Aug 16, 2019 |
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Aug 16, 2019 01:14
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Stop caring about grades and stop progressing; care too much about grades and you'll ruin climbing for yourself. You shouldn't care about grades to the extent that your rationale for not climbing something is because 'it's only a v3' or whatever. I've been guilty of this poo poo in the past and not only is it annoying and potentially disparaging of those around you, it indicates that you have poor self-confidence and an inflated ego. Conversely, I also probably wouldn't recommend projecting a problem at a new grade that you hate climbing simply because you want to climb your first v5. The key is to try hard on stuff you like at any grade level and take sends as they come. And to try hard, you should find stuff that is fun to try hard on. But to suggest that 'grades don't matter at all' (in terms of skill development) is preposterous. Of course they deviate, but being consistent at a grade level, especially in gym climbing, indicates progress. Sending your first and only climb at a grade more likely indicates a preference/strength in a particular style, but perhaps not progression. Ubiquitus posted:Gym grades are fairly meaningless, especially if you are trying to compare them to out side grades. Maybe, but most of us learn to try hard (or not) in the gym, and trying hard is the most transferable skill there is in bouldering and perhaps all of the disciplines. Why do so many comp climbers who don't get to prioritize outdoor climbing as much send super hard (but not as hard as pros who primarily climb outside)? I think before making assumptions about your gym's relevance to outside, it's good to know what sort of a gym you're climbing in. If it's comp-style heavy, then it's going to be less relevant. rest his guts fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Aug 16, 2019 |
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Aug 16, 2019 01:19
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Unrelated, but I take back what I said about training a month or so ago. It's absolutely beneficial (even for us intermediate-advanced climbers) and I'm stupid.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:28
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Jester Mcgee posted:I can sort of see how this is true, but even though I can generally Boulder V4-5 I still fall off most 5.10b routes because my endurance is garbage. It feels bad to fall of a route that doesn’t have any challenging moves, but I think that’s just the name of the game as I work on my sport climbing. Probably doesn’t help that I’m always climbing at the Red, and so most things are endurance challenges as opposed to super techy stuff. Dude if you can always climb at the red then just loving always climb at the red. That place is lovely.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:34
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rest his guts posted:Unrelated, but I take back what I said about training a month or so ago. It's absolutely beneficial (even for us intermediate-advanced climbers) and I'm stupid. No no I don't want to train man, I want to believe. Lost my window to climb one morning a week recently so I replaced it with a hang boarding season at home and I hate it.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:53
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armorer posted:Dude if you can always climb at the red then just loving always climb at the red. That place is lovely. I get out there as much as I can, but when my schedule doesn't work out with my climbing partner, or if it's raining, then I got to hit the gym.
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Aug 16, 2019 02:32
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ShaneB posted:I'm stuck between v2 and v3, where v2's just let me grip and rip everything, and 80% of v3's aren't possible for me. I'm kind of trying to get a little serious about losing some weight, which I hear is the magic panacea to going up grades without actually getting better at climbing. I'm in the same place. I can send pretty much every v2 in the gym on the first or second try. Tried a handful of v3s today and couldn't get very far on any of them. But one of them seemed workable at least. Also finally sent a v0 set by the Dark Lord that's been eluding me for weeks, despite being able to finish every other v0/v1/v2 in the gym with relative easy. I got that big advantage of being overweight too, so I should also try losing some. I'm also old, but getting younger/newer joints seems a lot more difficult!
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Aug 16, 2019 02:50
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i noticed today that my indoor climbing gym does a discount rate for over 65's. Anyway know someone of that age that's climbing? I wondered how many people take advantage of that offer.
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Aug 16, 2019 03:10
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V2 guys: go to the V2s that you can send, perhaps not easily, and work on your technique until they becomes easier. Doing this will teach you better movement patterns, as technique and not strength is likely your prohibiting factors (unless you're severely overweight). Also, before hopping on the problem, think about the 'boxes' (the space your body occupies between holds) you'll be in and about how to make the position as stable as possible. For me, switching my thinking about climbing from 'hold to hold movement' to 'moving from one body position to the next' helped a lot. One of the most common technical issues I see with new climbers is that they imitate better climbers but incorrectly. For example, Climber A (new) astutely notices that Climber B (veteran) turns her hips in to position herself closer to the wall so that she can more easily make the throw to the next hold; Climber A takes the concept and applies it to a situation where he most certainly would have been better off staying square to the wall, making the move longer (because he is now further from the hold rather than directly under it) and less stable for himself. Another thing you might have to start doing is making moves that you're uncertain about. A foot might be placed higher than you've experienced and this naturally induces anxiety. Maybe the foothold is now also rounded, smaller, somehow more tenuous. Just try it anyways. And when you surprise yourself and execute the scary move that wasn't actually that difficult for you (to your great surprise!), you say something like 'whew, now I never have to do that again!' when it would benefit you to rest awhile and then try that exact same scary move to develop a little confidence. I think that early on especially, repeating stuff, especially stuff that you can do but poorly, is one of the best ways to push past those early mini-plateaus. Spending most of your time doing that and maybe 20-30% of your time attempting individual limit moves (if the crux of a V3 is halfway up the wall, climb into the crux with as much energy as possible by using every hold in your vicinity, not just the ones on your problem) will quickly advance your understanding of climbing. Don't be bashful about falling off problems on the very first move, either. Most people are doing a lot more falling than sending and furthermore no one is paying attention to you so try not to be self-conscious. V3 is also a good time to start thinking about lock-offs and core tension. There are a lot of ways to train lock-offs, but on the wall should be sufficient for now. Personally, I would find the biggest, juggiest V0 in the gym (slightly overhung if possible) and move slowly through the problem, really trying to weight and pull through the arm, attempting not to match holds at all. For core tension, simply think about engaging your core while warming up. Since core engagement is a somewhat nebulous concept, here's a video on how to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh3HrXHhecI Remember to engage those glutes! rest his guts fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Aug 16, 2019 |
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Aug 16, 2019 03:29
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Anyways I was on a camping and climbing trip in Colorado last week. Here are a few of the pics I took with my trusty old DSLR: (Penitente Canyon, lots of slab routes on volcanic tuft but also some hueco-ridden routes)        (Shelf Road, mostly limestone cliffs)      We also tried to climb Clear Creek near Denver on our last couple of days, but got rained on just after hiking some treacherous slopes up to the climbing areas. So we took it easy and climbed indoors instead.
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Aug 16, 2019 03:52
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rest his guts posted:Stop caring about grades and stop progressing; care too much about grades and you'll ruin climbing for yourself. Good point, look at all those places in my post I said not to try hard or that gyms are irrelevant to climbing outside.
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Aug 16, 2019 06:02
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enraged_camel posted:Anyways I was on a camping and climbing trip in Colorado last week. Here are a few of the pics I took with my trusty old DSLR: Holy poo poo, a goon went outside! Penitente is so cool and so loving hard. Did you check out the Rock Garden, too? It's a neat spot. In the spirit of going outside (seriously, do any of you bouldering nerds ever see the sun?), I did the Crestones Traverse this weekend. Spouse is more goal-oriented toward hiking, and I am more goal-oriented toward climbing. So we meet at the middle at class 4-low class 5 peaks.  Not pictured: 2000' of exposure to my left. The climbing is objectively easier and better to solo on that side of the headwall, though. And the rock is just...  Maybe not the world's coolest gym V6, but not bad for an old lady with an ACL reconstruction. We did it in two days (backpack in to S. Colony Lakes on Tues., traverse and hike out Weds.). Yesterday was about 14 miles, 4000' of gain, and 7,000' of loss. Looking forward to tackling next season with my fancy robot leg.
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Aug 16, 2019 06:27
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Tears In A Vial posted:i noticed today that my indoor climbing gym does a discount rate for over 65's. Anyway know someone of that age that's climbing? I wondered how many people take advantage of that offer.
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Aug 16, 2019 08:14
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remote control carnivore posted:Holy poo poo, a goon went outside! Penitente is so cool and so loving hard. Did you check out the Rock Garden, too? It's a neat spot. We were going to, but it turned out there was a huge loving rattlesnake sunbathing smack in the middle of the trail further into the canyon (it bit a dog, which was scary and sad) so we said gently caress it and left.
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Aug 16, 2019 08:31
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I'll be in Tuolumne Meadows for a week in mid September, and will try to report back with some good photos. I've not been able to get outdoors this year nearly as much as past years for a whole bunch of reasons, so I'm really looking forward to that trip.
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Aug 16, 2019 10:37
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Tears In A Vial posted:i noticed today that my indoor climbing gym does a discount rate for over 65's. Anyway know someone of that age that's climbing? I wondered how many people take advantage of that offer. My dad still climbs once every week or 2 and he turned 70 this year. There're definitely several other people I see at the gym that are at least in their 50s/60s. Probably depends a bit on your area, but there're plenty of people in my area who get into it because of their kids, though those people aren't 65+ yet of course.
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Aug 16, 2019 12:20
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remote control carnivore posted:In the spirit of going outside (seriously, do any of you bouldering nerds ever see the sun?), I did the Crestones Traverse this weekend. That's a lot of ground covered even without the knackered knee and that rock looks spectacular! This is the remote island I spent a week on. There were just a handful of us and no other inhabitants but the seals and seabirds. The climbing is mostly 2-3 pitch routes on sea cliffs facing the Atlantic which makes the abseil in quite intimidating. The rock forms really juggy holds with great friction.  
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Aug 16, 2019 20:02
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Endjinneer posted:That's a lot of ground covered even without the knackered knee and that rock looks spectacular! What island is that? Hot drat, that rock looks phenomenal. I really want to go climb some sea stacks in Scotland, and your pics remind me of my wish list.  Yes, the Sangre de Cristo conglomerate is really fantastic stuff. So fun to climb, and so bomber! I can't wait to go back, I've wanted to do the Ellingwood Ledges for years. Now that I've gotten Crestone Needle with my husband, I'm free of our compact to not summit new Class 3+ routes on 14,000+' peaks without one another. New routes on peaks we've already done together are allowed!
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Aug 16, 2019 20:53
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remote control carnivore posted:What island is that? Hot drat, that rock looks phenomenal. I really want to go climb some sea stacks in Scotland, and your pics remind me of my wish list. I was wondering about the rock type from the photo. Bomber conglomerate sounds like a total lark! We were on Mingulay and the rock is Lewisian Gneiss. If you've got Scotland on the wish list then you can climb it in the Outer Hebrides on Pabbay, Mingulay, Lewis, and there's a nice outcrop on the mainland at the top of a 2900' peak called Garbh Bheinn which conveniently also has a lovely ridge scramble up to the top. There are probably other places where it pops up too. I've climbed gneiss in other places and it's been almost soapy feeling but this was like sandstone friction with limestone positiveness.
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Aug 16, 2019 21:14
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I want to get my shoes resoled when they are due. Is this what "due" looks like? Can I still climb with this for a little bit without damaging the rand? 
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Aug 16, 2019 21:44
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KingColliwog posted:I want to get my shoes resoled when they are due. That is what "due" looks like. It's possible you will need a new rand already, but if you keep climbing in them like that you'll put a hole in the very tip and then need a rand for sure.
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Aug 16, 2019 22:40
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rest his guts posted:V2 guys: Thanks so much for typing all this up. Gives me a ton to work on. And engaging my glutes/core is something I'm just chronically bad at so this will be a great way to work that.
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Aug 17, 2019 01:38
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Agreed. Thanks for the post.
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Aug 17, 2019 03:42
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Hope it helps! I went to Tyler Nelson (C4HP)’s testing and training protocol seminar over the weekend and learned a lot about isometric training and blood flow restriction and highly recommend seeking out his content if you’re interested in the nuances of training for maximal force production, rate of force development, BFR, etc. The blood flow restriction section was particularly interesting. There’s a huge body of research out there suggesting that you can train at 20-40% max effort and yield the same results as if you were training maximally if you simply occlude the veins beneath the bicep and adjust your tempo and rep scheme. Also, instead of resting common injuries (to the finger tendons, for example) you should basically just drop the intensity to around 20-60% of your maximal effort and continue to load your tendons - not only do you heal more quickly, you come back with potentially stronger fingers. Performed in conjunction with BFR straps, potentially higher. The steps were pretty drat expensive so I’ll probably hold off until my next injury to give it a whirl.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:22
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armorer posted:That is what "due" looks like. It's possible you will need a new rand already, but if you keep climbing in them like that you'll put a hole in the very tip and then need a rand for sure. These look completely "normal" to my New Enough To Climbing eyes. What exactly am I looking for in signs of wear?
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Aug 19, 2019 15:43
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Sab669 posted:These look completely "normal" to my New Enough To Climbing eyes. What exactly am I looking for in signs of wear? There is a thin layer of rubber that wraps around the upper part of the toe, called the "rand". The sole of the shoe is thicker (typically 4 or 5mm) and obviously is glued on the bottom. On new shoes, the seam between the two is high enough that the rubber at the point of the toe is the sole rubber. Over time, that rubber wears away and you get to the rand rubber. You can see the seam line between them in that photo, and the rubber at the toe is all rand. If you continue to climb and wear through that as well, you'll get to the underlying leather and maybe pop some stitching. You can generally still resole a shoe if you've just barely worn through the rand, but they'll cut part of the old rand off and glue on new rubber. It limits the number of resoles you can ultimately get, and may change the fit of the toe a bit. On new shoes that seam would be where I've poorly drawn a line here. 
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Aug 19, 2019 15:53
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Oh, cool, thanks for the explanation. I'll have to look at mine when I get home. Obviously it would vary wildly based on how much climbing one does, but is it possible to roughly estimate how long a given pair might last? Like I climb 2-4 days a week for 1.5 - 2 hour sessions, have had them for about 2-3 months. I already want to get a second pair anyways; laces suck for outdoor bouldering 
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Aug 19, 2019 15:59
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Sab669 posted:Oh, cool, thanks for the explanation. I'll have to look at mine when I get home. It would depend on a million things, so no not really. I get 6 to 9 months out of a sole, climbing roughly 3 days a week for a few hours at a time.
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Aug 19, 2019 16:03
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Those shoes have 2 months at 4x a week 2-3 hours sessions. I'm 170lbs. But 1. The walls and holds at my daily gym are very new and have stupid high friction 2. I think I mostly destroyed them doing slab and slipping off volumes and such. Because I love them slab. I might get another, more durable, pair for warm-up and slabby stuff that I tend to slip off of. 3. I do a lot of pivoting on the toes which felt very good but I'm now thinking I'll try to stop doing because it probably ruins my big toe super fast. The rest of the shoe is so barely used that it hurts having to resole already. But I'm pretty much only using the big toe tip anyway so that's kind of normal I guess. KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 18:55
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I gym climb in $80 shoes. But I don't mind slipping on my gym proj...
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Aug 19, 2019 19:17
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That's more weekly time climbing than I typically get, but even if I say that's 3 to 4 months of wall time for me, that is still more wear than mine get. I'm 160lbs, but the gym I climb at most often has no slab and has really old, low friction holds. That alone makes a big difference. Being able to pivot on your toes on small footholds is a good skill to have, and crucial on some hard routes. Don't give it up entirely, but don't just do it all the time. Edit: A resole costs like $65 including shipping. I've had individual pairs of shoes resoled 4 or 5 times in the past. At this point I have a pair of TC pros for multipitch, and wear miura vs for everything else. I prefer to just always wear the same shoe whether in the gym or outside so I know which terrible lovely little feet I can trust and which I can't. armorer fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 19:22
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armorer posted:That's more weekly time climbing than I typically get, but even if I say that's 3 to 4 months of wall time for me, that is still more wear than mine get. I'm 160lbs, but the gym I climb at most often has no slab and has really old, low friction holds. That alone makes a big difference. I was off for the whole summer so I had infinite time to climb, it will go down drastically now. Yeah I just pivot on everything even when warming up. It's totally unnecessary, but it just feels good and flowy so I always do it. I'll stop doing it when I don't have to now since it's obviously terrible for my shoes. Too bad I had to destroy a pair to get wiser yeah it's 60$ here for a resole and it would cost me 180$ for a new pair + hating myself because buying a disposable shoe when it's totally possible to resole and reuse for longer doesn't sound super ethical to me KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 20:58
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Could also be toe drag when stepping up and not pivoting, I pivot a lot and usually wear a spot below my big toe and not the front of the sole/Rand area - looks like you drag the inside of your big toe for balance when you step up with the opposite leg which is a really common problem.
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Aug 20, 2019 04:14
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